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Or would it make me even a larger part of the problem by becoming apathetic and not voting at all because the choices were so weak?

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ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway
spend more, more social programs

Actually there is nothing wrong with proper social programmes.

As a kid I was involved in many social programmes which cost next to nothing my parents and it certainly helps well to keep your kid out of trouble...

All the instruments I played in 1:1 tuition as well as in orchestras were pretty cheap and my parents never had to buy me an instrument as it was provided by the music club (they did buy me two of them at a later stage but that was their choice, they would not have to do so if they would not have been able to do so).

Also other clubs I took part in (sports clubs, nature clubs, whatever else) didn't and still does not cost much back home...

So quite frankly I do value societies who do consider social programmes as important.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Or would it make me even a larger part of the problem by becoming apathetic and not voting at all because the choices were so weak?

Might surprise you to know I voted for Bush over Kerry because I felt Kerry was too weak... and Im a Democrat. So dont even try to give me the apathetic routine.

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway
If prosperous people are paying fewer taxes because they have saved their money and invested over the years in tax free interest investments like municipal bonds, the answer is yes. I'm happy paying higher taxes and I need to start saving my pennies and I need to invest in the same investment vehicles they have. 

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If you are asking whether I am happy paying taxes when a liberal, dare say socialist, CEO like Geoffrey Imelt (who was appointed to some government panel by O'scumbag) manages to make 14 billion in profits and pay nothing, no...I don't like that one bit.

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I think there has been a marked lack of white collar prosecutions during this administration.  But then, would you prosecute Obama?  Barney Frank?  Chris Dodd?  Geoffrey Imelt, for that matter?

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Given the amount of abuse of tax loopholes seen in your country's ruling class, small wonder you're whining, then.

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CEO like Geoffrey Imelt (who was appointed to some government panel by O'scumbag) manages to make 14 billion in profits and pay nothing, no

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway
We don't have socialists in my country?  Sure we do...tons of them.  And they are as feckless here as they are in your country.

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Or would it make me even a larger part of the problem by becoming apathetic and not voting at all because the choices were so weak?

Might surprise you to know I voted for Bush over Kerry because I felt Kerry was too weak... and Im a Democrat. So dont even try to give me the apathetic routine.

What the hell are you talking about?  Did I call you apathetic?  I merely asked you a question that you did not answer.  In fact, I have asked you a number of questions that you have ignored.  And yes, it surprises me a little that you voted for Bush instead of Kerry.

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What the hell are you talking about?  Did I call you apathetic?  I merely asked you a question that you did not answer.  In fact, I have asked you a number of questions that you have ignored.  And yes, it surprises me a little that you voted for Bush instead of Kerry.

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Whether socialist, or conservative or liberal or communist, there is a ruling class and a non-ruling class. The ruling class always wants to be the ruling class because there are perquisites to power that people don't want to ever surrender. Do you agree?

And so, because government is a necessary evil, it must be kept small and limited. Government must be monitored 24 hours a day but its citizenry, the electorate, who vote in every election from president to school board to dog catcher. Do you agree?

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Again, you seem to be implying that I think some people are above corruption because of party affiliation.  I don't really care about party affiliation.  Zell Miller was a VERY conservative democrat.  Sure, add Skilling to the fire.  Add the boys at Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sacks, Merrill Lynch, Bank of American, AIG, Countrywide Mortgage.......AND Barrack Obama, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Bill Clinton and that demented fool Jimmy Carter too.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Or would it make me even a larger part of the problem by becoming apathetic and not voting at all because the choices were so weak?

Might surprise you to know I voted for Bush over Kerry because I felt Kerry was too weak... and Im a Democrat. So dont even try to give me the apathetic routine.

What the hell are you talking about?  Did I call you apathetic?  I merely asked you a question that you did not answer.  In fact, I have asked you a number of questions that you have ignored.  And yes, it surprises me a little that you voted for Bush instead of Kerry.

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What the hell are you talking about?  Did I call you apathetic?  I merely asked you a question that you did not answer.  In fact, I have asked you a number of questions that you have ignored.  And yes, it surprises me a little that you voted for Bush instead of Kerry.

Surprise, surprise... not everyone votes party lines. Maybe if more people stoped doing just that, politicians might wisen up. Most are still in office because they bank on the "goosestep" metality.

The thing with Obama is that he wasnt of that mentality...

The final election Gallup Poll, from October 27 to November 2, indicated 10% of Republicans supported Obama instead of McCain,[21] compared to 7% of "McCain Democrats." Gallup also indicated his support among self-described conservatives, although stronger than John Kerry's, was weaker than what Al Gore received.

If more people voted their conscience instead of their party, it would be a real shake up in government. Maybe instead of creating spin on message boards, we should be encouraging spinning the politicians.

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Look at the number of taxes that were enacted under democratic administrations. Yes...you work hard and you make less. You are taxed to death!!! Cops write tickets for no lights on bicycles and every other offense imaginable because the municipality needs the revenue. Every year there are more actions that require permits, licenses, user fees, surcharges, etc. On every ballot for every election is a tax initiative question.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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Again, you seem to be implying that I think some people are above corruption because of party affiliation.  I don't really care about party affiliation.  Zell Miller was a VERY conservative democrat.  Sure, add Skilling to the fire.  Add the boys at Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sacks, Merrill Lynch, Bank of American, AIG, Countrywide Mortgage.......AND Barrack Obama, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Bill Clinton and that demented fool Jimmy Carter too.

Add Bush 1 and 2, Reagan, Weinberger, Rice and a few insundry others.

This is where you are failing. You are always pointing out the liberals who are "hurting out country". I do agree, they do.

However, your one sides stance makes it hard to see beyond the rhetoric you are spouting to see the problems beneath.

Its not just one side... its ALL sides. Can you not own up to that in your posts?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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Look at the number of taxes that were enacted under democratic administrations. Yes...you work hard and you make less. You are taxed to death!!! Cops write tickets for no lights on bicycles and every other offense imaginable because the municipality needs the revenue. Every year there are more actions that require permits, licenses, user fees, surcharges, etc. On every ballot for every election is a tax initiative question.

None of those are federal issues--all state and local, under a variety of party leaderships.

In NY, fees jumped under 12 years of Pataki (R) rule because he was hot to prove himself a fiscal conservative, so he used fees to cover his tax cuts (as well as riding the Wall St. wave during the prosperity of the Clinton years).

In fact, for decades, we cut federal taxes and shrink federal government as a percentage of population and GDP, while state and local governments and taxes balloon to pick up the slack. And people come back clamoring for more, exacerbating the problem.

Stuff costs money, and some stuff just has to get done. Reality. Pretending not to fund it doesn't change it.

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I'm sorry, I just don't include Reagan from your list.  I think, especially by comparison, he was the best president the U.S. has seen since Theodore Roosevelt.  If you think there are a number of presidents since TR that have done a much better job, I would love to hear who they are and WHY THEY WERE BETTER. 

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I agree with most of what you have said "stuff costs money".  No doubt about it.  But if the Federal government is going to reduce aid, State governments have to downsize concomitantly.  Government ceaselessly expands in NJ.  Compare the money a legislator makes in NJ to what one makes in Texas, compare the length of the sessions too.  I agree with you, but shrinkage has to occur across the board.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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I'm sorry, I just don't include Reagan from your list.  I think, especially by comparison, he was the best president the U.S. has seen since Theodore Roosevelt.  If you think there are a number of presidents since TR that have done a much better job, I would love to hear who they are and WHY THEY WERE BETTER. 

And I disagree. His deregulation of almost everything lead us to the place we are. The health care deregulations he implemented alone have crippled many.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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I agree with most of what you have said "stuff costs money".  No doubt about it.  But if the Federal government is going to reduce aid, State governments have to downsize concomitantly.  Government ceaselessly expands in NJ.  Compare the money a legislator makes in NJ to what one makes in Texas, compare the length of the sessions too.  I agree with you, but shrinkage has to occur across the board.

Why do states have to downsize? Oh yeah, the politicans are afraid of not being voted back in. Taxes bad.. cuts good... doesnt matter that the state cant support itself in the process.