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RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/25/2011 6:40:01 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hey Bad One -
For some folks the price to be oneself was very high. In fact it was too high and for some people survival instincts take over and hide who one truly is. I read a book by Dorothy Allison once in which she describes a couple of folks. One person argued, fought back, stood up for her rights. The men in her family beat her so badly that she had brain damage. The other person in the story witnessed that and made a choice to save herself by hiding who she was and living a lie for the most part until she could get away. While it is a dramatic example, it is for many people a reality. *I could have a long conversation about that based on the people I've worked with over time, but suffice it to say that being true to oneself is not always an option*. After one decides to make their own choices, it can be quite a process to move from old habits to new. Perhaps that is a more apt description of my question - what is the process for moving from one set of actions to another set, ones that more readily reflect your Truth?

Julia -
It sounds to me that what you are talking about is being in the moment, spontaneously responding to the emotions that arise in you. If that is the case, you have a luxury that many do not.

Best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/25/2011 8:03:33 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Julia -
It sounds to me that what you are talking about is being in the moment, spontaneously responding to the emotions that arise in you. If that is the case, you have a luxury that many do not.


We all have the choice of being in the moment. I do not always make that choice myself, but I realize I have it.

My mom had a discussion with me about how I am in my intimate relationships.. I guess she saw some sort of show about submissive women and she made the connection. She was not pleased with that connection, and she felt I had a choice about how i am in relationships... she has stopped trying to get me to change who I am.... I cannot be anyone else but who I am. I cannot be her, I cannot be my sister, I have to be me.

I know I am lucky to have family that love me the way I am. I know not everyone feels free to be who they are. But whether they accepted me or not, it wouldn't really change anything.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/25/2011 8:19:36 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		That does complicate things, re: post #41.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/25/2011 8:54:31 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


When I was teaching they were always a few students that just don't get it and have to take the class over again. I doubt typing slower will help you understand. Case in point I received a long letter re my post in this thread that created further dialog. Obviously they got it why can't you understand?

BadOne


This response of yours is your answer.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/25/2011 9:31:36 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Well...since you asked....

Self honesty.  That was quite a process for me, actually.  Mostly because I spent much of my life believing what others thought I should believe. And there were some really conflicting beliefs going on, too.

I learned at an early age that the adults in my life weren't going to protect me, so I never relied on anyone for that. 

I learned that men will take what they want, and if you give to them and make them happy, they're nicer to you.

I learned that love came with a price, and if I just did a little bit more, maybe I'd get that love.  Hence, some serious co-dependence. 

I discovered that it turned me on to be used and taken, but that "good girls" don't do that, so I was one of those girls who pretended she didn't want something, even though she did. I could be the victim this way, yet still get my rocks off, yet not be accountable for any of it.

I learned I wanted to be a submissive wife, and gave myself to a bully, because I didn't understand "dominance" or "mastery."

Then I learned about D/s and M/s, and what a "real slave" should do.  So I tried to fit that mold.  I struggled very much with this, and there was a lot of pain involved, because I didn't fit into the mold I was trying to conform to. But I did learn I actually liked pain, and didn't fear it anymore.  I also learned I could be put through anything, and come out ok. 

Then things changed for me.  I spent a lot of intense introspective time alone, and got to know myself.  Therapy helped. I learned to stop believing others' lies as my truth.  I learned I'm a pretty cool person - someone I liked, even loved.  I learned to express myself and to be myself, and that didn't mean pleasing everyone on earth, and that didn't mean stifling myself to protect the man in my life from getting angry or upset, or not liking me.  And I learned my "natural self" is to submit to my man's authority, yet to stand on my own outside of the relationship.  I learned to accept love, and that dominance and mastery did not mean continued and relentless cruelty.

So yeah, being true to myself was an eventful, difficult, yet most rewarding journey. I still receive the periodic comment of, "You don't need to do what he tells you to" but I usually blow those off.  Those in my life see the positive changes, and they're happy.  So I'm not challenged much anymore. Plus I have no problem telling people it's none of their business.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/25/2011 10:17:52 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline 		  Essentially, I'd say it's a consequence of maturing.

The lesson which most young men are not taught in our societies is to be a man.  I believe this misstep is at the heart of many of the issues we see occurring in men today.  From identifying as a male sub to failing to charm women to sociopathic responses to women who wound their ego, the root cause of many of this is utterly failing to step up to the plate and responding to life's challenges as a man.

In part, I'd say this is due to the triumph of feminist dogma and the resulting impact upon our societies.  Having said that, the need for feminism to arise in response to clear inequities is a consequence - yet again - of men failing to handle their responsibilities.  That is, the rise of feminism in the 60's is a response to men who failed to provide or who emotionally and physically abused their women due to their OWN insecurity and weakness.

Thus, the issues which predominate today were already occurring prior to the 60's.  The question is what social movement or decay precipitated it.  At least one commentator has pointed out that our societies no longer have rites of passage in which a boy becomes a man.  Consequently, there's no formal point in a boy's life when society effectively says to him "You're not longer a boy, you're a man and we expect you to behave as one."

Regardless, for me, it's a process of maturity and discovering for myself what my society, peers and elders failed to teach me.  The resulting knowledge and insight leaves a man well equipped to handle the challenges of life and women, thus dominance is an implicit byproduct of that - not simply a kink.


_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/26/2011 12:09:13 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hey Bad One -
For some folks the price to be oneself was very high. In fact it was too high and for some people survival instincts take over and hide who one truly is. I read a book by Dorothy Allison once in which she describes a couple of folks. One person argued, fought back, stood up for her rights. The men in her family beat her so badly that she had brain damage. The other person in the story witnessed that and made a choice to save herself by hiding who she was and living a lie for the most part until she could get away. While it is a dramatic example, it is for many people a reality. *I could have a long conversation about that based on the people I've worked with over time, but suffice it to say that being true to oneself is not always an option*. After one decides to make their own choices, it can be quite a process to move from old habits to new. Perhaps that is a more apt description of my question - what is the process for moving from one set of actions to another set, ones that more readily reflect your Truth?

Julia -
It sounds to me that what you are talking about is being in the moment, spontaneously responding to the emotions that arise in you. If that is the case, you have a luxury that many do not.

Best,
sunshine


Yep that is dramatic and odds are that has not happened to anyone on here. The Key point I bolded "until you can get away. Ive always maintained once you hit say 21 you can't blame your parents or anyone else for your situation. ie no more excuses. So once you escape that bad situation. You can now move on to be yourself. Now it may take awhile to discover who you are. "To thine own self be true" applies to thread.

My path to truth let's make it real simple and equate it to sailing. When I first got interested in it the only thing I knew was that I liked it. I didnt know the bow from the stern. Gradually I sailed more, talked to ppl, took a class, hired a pro racer to teach me more. Now many years later I have the skill set to cross the Atlantic alone.

That's the long way of explaining how my interest in new things "evolve" Never would I describe it as a "struggle" A sharp learning curve yes but not a struggle I enjoied every minute of it.

BadOne


_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/26/2011 12:15:37 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


When I was teaching they were always a few students that just don't get it and have to take the class over again. I doubt typing slower will help you understand. Case in point I received a long letter re my post in this thread that created further dialog. Obviously they got it why can't you understand?

BadOne


This response of yours is your answer.



WOW what a great retort. I better write this shit down lest I forget it. Did your mommy help you write that?

BadOne



_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/26/2011 2:54:41 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
Never would I describe it as a "struggle" A sharp learning curve yes but not a struggle I enjoied every minute of it.


Maybe that's like that on account of being the boss... having the luxury to have it all your way and perhaps being lucky to find the right partners?

From the bottom end of things, especially if you are not even much aware of the fact that you are actually at the bottom... it can seem like an enormous struggle... it certainly did for me

but once i finally got my head around it, the enjoyment started indeed

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/27/2011 6:23:10 PM   
LikesEmYoungNHng


Posts: 68
Joined: 5/24/2011
From: In My Place
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming


quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

p.s. I would appreciate if this didn't turn into a bloodbath.







I never had any trouble with it. I embrace who I am. Whatever side of the slash I'm on, or if I'm in a vanilla phase- it feels right to me. I enjoy being me!

Thanks for asking!



(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/27/2011 7:14:06 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		since i stopped submitting to submission and am all out to submit to the guy - a lesson worth its weight in learning - im now in a place where *most* of the doms i meet are kinda relying on me to submit to submission.

so ive done the journey, gone through the processing, walked the walk and now apparently i either go back to where i started to give these guys a break or hope that Mr.Getsme comes along soonish.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to LikesEmYoungNHng)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/27/2011 7:27:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

since i stopped submitting to submission and am all out to submit to the guy - a lesson worth its weight in learning - im now in a place where *most* of the doms i meet are kinda relying on me to submit to submission.


I love this!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/27/2011 7:54:29 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		sunshinemiss,

I've become strongly tunned into Cognitive Dissonance this year. Those wonderful videos over on Ted.com. So many things to feed your mind with and grow as a human being.

There are a few things in my mind, I struggle with on a personal level. However, nothing that's going to turn me into a neurotic zombie.

I don't have an issue with engaging in humilation, objectification, using somebody for fuckmeat or even hurting them. Provided it's what is understood upfront. However, at the same token, I want to unwind and hold somebody and have an affectionate, caring relationship at the same time.

Mentally, I'm like "Heavy Metal" magazine and "Home & Garden" combined, perhaps a few issues of Rolling Stone and adult porn slide in between. LOL




_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/28/2011 12:05:03 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

How did you alleviate the cognitive dissonance that is part and parcel of holding the two realities at the same time?



I orgasm a whole bunch... I've found I don't care much about anything after that!!!



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/28/2011 8:44:01 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

since i stopped submitting to submission and am all out to submit to the guy - a lesson worth its weight in learning - im now in a place where *most* of the doms i meet are kinda relying on me to submit to submission.


I love this!


couldnt think what to say, decided not to, but instead of tapping 'cancel'... here we are.... so .....

thanks x

< Message edited by lally2 -- 5/28/2011 8:46:35 AM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/28/2011 9:42:37 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

So the whole "do you have contempt for" thing....

This is not that.

However, it was spawned from it.

I'm curious about the process folks have gone through in order to "come out" or to become more honestly who they are in regards to belief systems. For example, the "submitting" thing .... so many self-identified "submissive" women are anything but in real life. Or... "good guys don't hit girls."... or whatever belief you held that you had to shake off in order to integrate this other part of you.

How did you alleviate the cognitive dissonance that is part and parcel of holding the two realities at the same time?

Best,
sunshine

p.s. I would appreciate if this didn't turn into a bloodbath.



I went through this so long ago that it sometimes hard to even remember. But I do remember that making a distinction of doing what I felt what best for me compared to what society thought was best from me was a major step to living my life for me. I was taught many things and beliefs to follow... but I had to decide what I truly believed in... not just what society or my parents taught me to believe in.

lastly... I took responsibility for my choices... the good and the bad ones.

It sounds simple... but it's not all that easy.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/30/2011 6:27:06 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

So the whole "do you have contempt for" thing....

This is not that.

However, it was spawned from it.

I'm curious about the process folks have gone through in order to "come out" or to become more honestly who they are in regards to belief systems. For example, the "submitting" thing .... so many self-identified "submissive" women are anything but in real life. Or... "good guys don't hit girls."... or whatever belief you held that you had to shake off in order to integrate this other part of you.

How did you alleviate the cognitive dissonance that is part and parcel of holding the two realities at the same time?

Best,
sunshine

p.s. I would appreciate if this didn't turn into a bloodbath.



I was raised to be "incharge, the leader, a boss" so when my girlfriend and I started playing around with d/s it was just fun, I naturally followed her when I rarely followed anyone. But it was just fun, nothing serious.

At 17 I was involved with my first Dominant. The fact that he took control and I had no real choice but to just do, I was soo calm and happy. I had never felt so at peace before. But I kept looking back at my upbringing of "Do what you want and don't let anyone tell you what to do. Be incharge and then you know it's done right" So yes I was conflicted.

So I went back into a "normal" relationship. My bf could never make a decision on his own, I had to be incharge at work all day then come home and be incharge of everything there too. I was stressed out and really really resentful. Relationship did not last lol

I bounced back and forth between normal and d/s a couple times until I realized that I just was seriously unhappy when in a non power exchange dynamic relationship. Plus my mother pointed out that I should have remained with the Man I was with at 17 cause that was the last time she saw me truly happy.

So I quit trying to date "vanilla" men and embraced that to be happy I wanted a d/s relationship.

I realized I need the balance in my life of being incharge at work, and being able to let go at home. (the letting go at home is not always perfect yet. still working on the transition at times) Some say it's like a split personality. I think I'm always the same person, just softer at home.

I had no trouble embracing the kinky side of me, just the submissive side of me lol if that makes sense.

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: ...*The Journey...the Process...the Walk *... - 5/30/2011 7:12:18 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		I do not think I have ever been conflicted. I will say that I am shocked that I have come as far as I have. I would never have guessed even just an inkling that I would ever play at the level I do today. But

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

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Profile   Post #: 58
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