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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:25:24 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:26:54 AM   
Sanity


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Read my sig line Luce...


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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:27:15 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Blame the rape victim...

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL, the doctors are protesting the monitoring of payments thru national healthcare.  In other words, they are afraid that they will get caught embezzling and padding their bills.

And the neo-cons and other communists out here are supporting that sort of illegal gangsterism. 



This is the truth of what the doctors are demonstrating against in Greece.  Nothing to do with rape victims. Why the derail?  You got no facts again and still?

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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:30:57 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Read my sig line Luce...



Yeah, its cute and incorrect,  the republicans are simply argueing using lies and disinformation.  It has been repeatedly demonstrated that there has not been a fact that proves out forwarded by the right in many years.

A simple demonstration, show me a credible, demonstrable unnassailable fact.  For example: as in, credible, demonstrable and unnassailably, there were no WMD in Iraq.

 

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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:31:12 AM   
Sanity


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And thats why the "state" hospital staff is rioting as well, mnot? 


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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:34:07 AM   
Sanity


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Its kind of pathetic that all you have is this... insistence on consistently proving that Ms. Coulter is right in her assertion.

Can we get back on topic now, do you mind?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Read my sig line Luce...



Yeah, its cute and incorrect,  the republicans are simply argueing using lies and disinformation.  It has been repeatedly demonstrated that there has not been a fact that proves out forwarded by the right in many years.

A simple demonstration, show me a credible, demonstrable unnassailable fact.  For example: as in, credible, demonstrable and unnassailably, there were no WMD in Iraq.




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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:36:29 AM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Kick in the police and refuse to treat them, as to assault medical professionals with weapons suggests medical professionals are worth nothing in the eyes of the police.


Nope.  The police were not treating them as medical professionals, but as protesters attempting to trespass upon government offices. They were not acting as doctors at the time.  If the police broke up surgical procedures, that would be very different.

Are you suggesting that lawbreakers be given a free pass if they're doctors?

I reckon a doctor can't refuse treatment of a patient on political grounds. Read somewhere before that would be against the Hippocratic Oath.


The Hippocratic oath is open to interpretation seeing as it has been rewritten a few times and the original swears by various what we now call pagan gods, so I believe a Christian or indeed any other Abrahamic derived belief would not swear to this, and somewhere in the oath, is where the anti abortionists get their claim. But as an aside to that, we have all heard of doctors metering out the punishments ordered by law, actually causing harm. Then there is GTMO and the doctors that are there. But I suppose the question should be asked, what causes a doctor to practise, why in this present world do they, is it all because they care for others beyond anything else, or it because it is lucrative in certain societies and in the latter, would an ancient oath be relevant, in that would a doctor who is used to payment treat a person who couldn't pay ?


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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:40:57 AM   
pahunkboy


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Yeah Lucy-  give all your money to Goldman Sachs.     We cant afford cat food for you. 

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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:42:59 AM   
Lucylastic


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I dont listen to liars anymore than I have time to tell them they are liars
I will not debate you because you have nothing to offer
truth would be nice, but it wont happen, you are incapable of knowing the difference.
Coulter doesnt get it either
yourlies wont become the truth ever



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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:47:28 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Yeah Lucy-  give all your money to Goldman Sachs.     We cant afford cat food for you. 

I have nothing to do with goldman sachs, or cat food. try harder I give my money to the crown and thats just fine with me
SNORT


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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:48:10 AM   
Aneirin


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?

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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:52:11 AM   
mnottertail


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OK, so back on topic, in Greece, doctors are demonstrating because the government who pays their bills wants to audit them.  Interesting, it would seem that they want to keep any criminal activities such as billings for procedures never done under wraps and continue slopping at the trough.

Ronald Reagan once said, trust but verify.  Everbody thought that was a good deal.

Now, it seems that the rabid right might be defending the doctors in Greece and allowing them to rob the government unimpeded.  Which is what they are doing here in the insurance industry.  They howl about 'entitlements' to the individuals, the people of America, but see that corporations and the rich are lavishly entitled.  

So, thats the topic it seems.

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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 7:59:40 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Kick in the police and refuse to treat them, as to assault medical professionals with weapons suggests medical professionals are worth nothing in the eyes of the police.

Nope.  The police were not treating them as medical professionals, but as protesters attempting to trespass upon government offices. They were not acting as doctors at the time.  If the police broke up surgical procedures, that would be very different.

Are you suggesting that lawbreakers be given a free pass if they're doctors?

I reckon a doctor can't refuse treatment of a patient on political grounds. Read somewhere before that would be against the Hippocratic Oath.

The Hippocratic oath is open to interpretation seeing as it has been rewritten a few times and the original swears by various what we now call pagan gods, so I believe a Christian or indeed any other Abrahamic derived belief would not swear to this, and somewhere in the oath, is where the anti abortionists get their claim.

Thats true, don't know much bout the oath but I don't reckon the religious beliefs are an issue as the ethical points can be easily transposed without dem. The emphasis on all human beings in society prevents selective treatment over gender, political affilliation with lines like "I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm." I remember the case of a doc who refused to treat those who voted for Obama which some folks said was against the spirit of the oath.

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 5/26/2011 8:01:47 AM >


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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 8:46:34 AM   
Edwynn


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~FR~


The situation in Greece is indeed somewhat similar to that in the US. The inability to collect taxes overall in Greece, via numerous large sized loopholes, vs. the less egalitarian but just as damaging inability in the US to collect more than chump change from those who benefit most stupendously from the legal/financial infrastucture in this country. That is, the bonanza obtained by the few largest corporations at great expense to individual taxpayers and honest businesses is leaving us with many thousands of shuttered schools, reduced public transportation, reduced library hours and days of operation, defaulting on muni bonds due to prior fraudulent restructuring by the investment banks, and a host of other ills that will be with us for years to come.


Continental European countries have better health care than Greece, and every developed country and most emerging economies and even a good many third world countries have what the US does not: health care for all citizens. The European countries can afford it and suffer no great fiscal hardship from it because businesses and individuals in those countries actually pay taxes commensurate with the benefit derived from their economic systems. This in addition to the fact that the single payer system is inherently far less costly, a result of its underlying economic structure.

So the OP makes no sense if the proposition is that the US is bound for the same fate as Greece due to any proposed ubiquitous coverage health care plan, because Greece is no different than every country other than the US in that regard.

On the other hand, the comparison makes a lot of sense if we are comparing the fiscal situation.

quote:


Could this be our future? It seems to be the direction we are heading.




If the US keeps dallying about with 'financial reform,' which, lame as it is, is yet being argued by congress for further delay in coming into effect, and toying with 'fiscal reform' by, I kid you not, arguing not only for retention of the large flow of tax dollars to record-profits oil companies, but even further tax cuts for the wealthiest, then we will not merely be 'heading in that direction,' we will zoom downwards right past Greece and into deep third world territory.


And stay there.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 5/26/2011 9:01:29 AM >

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RE: Greece: Police clash with doctors - 5/26/2011 9:06:33 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

OK, so back on topic, in Greece, doctors are demonstrating because the government who pays their bills wants to audit them.  Interesting, it would seem that they want to keep any criminal activities such as billings for procedures never done under wraps and continue slopping at the trough.

Ronald Reagan once said, trust but verify.  Everbody thought that was a good deal.

Now, it seems that the rabid right might be defending the doctors in Greece and allowing them to rob the government unimpeded.  Which is what they are doing here in the insurance industry.  They howl about 'entitlements' to the individuals, the people of America, but see that corporations and the rich are lavishly entitled.  

So, thats the topic it seems.


It sounds like the whole state of Greece is averse to paying taxes. Now there's no money in the coffers and the average Dominic is pissed that they're on the hook by what they feel is corruption in the government.

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