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Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 7:29:08 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Who do you submit to and why?

Can you only submit to someone you perceive as being stronger than yourself? Physically? Mentally? Financially?

Do you submit because of weakness in some areas of your life and you are looking for someone more competent than yourself in those areas? Submit because they pay your bills? Because they are more intelligent?

Do you perceive yourself as the "weaker" one of the relationship?

Another thread got me wondering. Talk of superiority, inferiority, weaker genders......

For myself, I submit to a Dominant partner when I find someone who has the strength of character, integrity and levels of intelligence that I find to be appealing. This does not mean that they have those characteristics at levels that exceed my own.

Those who know me will tell you that you would be hard pressed to find anyone more secure in who they are than I am. I can not imagine submitting to someone who I felt somehow inferior to. That to me, is not submission....that is being overpowered. To me submission is a choice....one that is inspired by finding someone who has traits that you personally value...and who will be a compliment to your life and who you are. It's not something that someone will get from me because they can overpower me, buy me or outwit me.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 7:46:11 AM   
OnyxGoddess


Posts: 242
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I concur.  I cannot submit to a man that I felt wasn't superior to me in certain important areas.  I'm a person where strength matters.  If he is superior to me physically and mentally I can submit.  I think it has something to do with my Aries nature.  I'm just plain stubborn.  LOL.  I do not percieve myself as "weaker" though.  Because I know he may be superior in some areas and I am superior in other areas.  That being said...I will not allow him to treat me as if I am inferior to him.  I prefer to be his equal. -If that makes any sense.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 7:47:20 AM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I can only submit to one who is my equal mentally and stronger physically.  Financially?  As long as I don't have to support him, it's of no consequence to me.  I feel much the same way as you do, erin.  It's my choice to submit and I chose one who compliments me.  I make a very good living and certainly don't need anyone to pay my bills (although all cash donations are accepted...lol).  I am very intelligent also and I do look for the same in my partner as I enjoy stimulating conversation.  I must admit, tho, I do like to be physically overpowered, but that alone is not enough for me to submit.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 8:22:29 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		Not being submissive I can't answer you directly, :).  I know my little one needs someone stronger than her.  She likes big strong men, but the mental part is even more important.  They need to be mentally strong, that doesn't mean stronger or superior to her, just able to handle the situation.  She has always pushed and when they showed any sign of weakness she was done and they were out the door.  The funny part is she has never tried to push or test me like that.  I asked her once why not and she just looked at me and said, "I knew better,".  She has said from the first moment we were in the same room she knew how strong I was so there was no need to test and she better behave, lol.

K

< Message edited by PlayfulOne -- 5/13/2006 8:23:36 AM >

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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 11:00:00 AM   
nicolerose


Posts: 4
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		i don't necessarily need someone stronger than myself, but they need to have a certain inner strength. with it a Dom/me is appealing, and without it i can't see myself submitting to them. 

(in reply to PlayfulOne)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 11:04:41 AM   
Raethepain


Posts: 44
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		Physically, he doesn't have to be stronger than me. Financially, no. But he has to be wise...

It's just something I've always craved. Someone who is intellectually dominant to me. And it's pretty hard to find when you're two marks off MENSA.

(in reply to nicolerose)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 11:10:41 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		We all submit to Mamon, or just about all of us, that is why we accept a capitalist society.

Most subs submit for romantic love if you believe the threads on CM. Read them!

Money does play a part in submission or at least to my experience. I'm going through a period of my life where I've had unprecidented financial success (in my own terms) and I've never had so much success with women. I don't think that is pure chance. I am no stronger physically or psychologically but I sense I am damn well perceived to be stronger in both areas.

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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 11:30:01 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Stronger?  naw..........Mentally?  that's a 4 sided coin....Financially? Oh F that, I'll starve before I fall to that. I'll submit when a certain Honor and Integrity is time tested.  They don't need to be superman, but as you said, I look for those characteristics at levels that meet or exceed my own.   Sure I like big strong men, I like intelligent men,  and........ I like nice things, but all those things pale in time along with my interest.I'll take back bone and Integrity every time Thank You.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 11:30:11 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		OK I'm not who you aimed the question at, but since when has that stopped me throwing my opinion into the mix 

I've always been the stronger physicaly, 6'2" ex-bouncer, thats pretty much a given.

Mentaly, Do you mean inteligence or emotional stability? I've usualy been the more emotionaly stable one, the rock they held onto if the world got crappy..... but I've never gone for emotional fuck-ups, I helped but they always could have stood on their own two feet if they had to. Inteligence, mostly they have been bright, the sort of girl I could discuss metaphysics with as easily as current affairs or what was on at the cinema!

Financialy, I'm stable, good with money and even where they have earned more than I it hasn't been an issue.

That said, those are mearly looking at those aspects individualy... I've never viewed a girl of mine as weak in any respect (I don't go for weak girls!) and I most certainly don't equate submission with weakness.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 12:01:29 PM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		I suppose my perspective may be a little different, but I can't resist adding my two cents. 
 
For anyone who's seen my profile, you already know my situation.  For those who haven't, here is a brief rundown.  I married before I was really cognizant of being submissive.  My husband also feels like he would prefer to be submissive (but he may be able to dominate me, we shall see).  We are monogamous.
 
I've come to realize that I wouldn't have married someone that I didn't have great respect for.  And I couldn't submit to anyone that I didn't have great respect for.  My husband has a lot of traits that I admire.  He's also a very smart individual (I think he's probably smarter than I am, but he won't hear me say so).  He's stronger than I am, but that's not hard, given my small size.
 
So, yes...  I would say that equal or greater intelligence is necessary for me to submit.  Being stronger than me physically is a turn on.
 
zuma

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 12:58:54 PM   
slaveladyj


Posts: 161
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		It's funny, but I often feel the reason I need to submit is because I have so much of the control in real life. Everyone always comes to me for everything. Finding someone whom I could respect, who equal or surpassed me in intelligence is difficult. But I would definitely need an intelligent male to dominate me.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 1:01:57 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		I think for a while in my teens I submitted because I felt inadequate.  I knew that I was better than these guys, but I didn't feel I could do better than them.  It wasn't that they were stronger than me in any way, just that I felt like less than I am.  I don't know if that makes any sense or not.

Now I've grown up a bit, and I'm well-adjusted, so submission has nothing to do with that sort of self-deprecation.  I do it now because I enjoy it.  I'm the equal of my husband in every way, and I'm happy with that.

Edited to add: As for physical strength, if it ever came down to it, I'd be able to take out most of the guys I've dated in a fist fight.  Come to think of it, it has come down to that before.  I won every time.  K.O.!  I think my husband would give me a run for my money, and he'd probably win.  We're comparable in size.  I'm a tall, very strong girl.  LOL.  I'll admit I like feeling a little weaker than my man, physically.

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 5/13/2006 1:07:29 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:13:54 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I need to feel I am with someone who is my intellectual equal or superior. In all other traits and characteristics it does not matter much to me if they are less or more talented than myself. People have different characteristics they find "dominant", for some it is economic power, for others it is physical strength, for me it is intellectual. It is the way I am wired. This does not mean I feel "inferior", it is just that I like to have my mind fucked as much as the rest of me fucked, if that makes sense... One cannot fuck my mind unless they are intelligent. My mind is always working on something, and I guess I need someone more intelligent to understand that and help me shut my mind off and just submit? Im not sure.

For me D/s is not about inferior, superior, weak, strong... It is a power and control thing. Have you ever heard the expression "Your possessions end up owning you"? it means that those who claim to own another are actually in some ways owned by them....lol. Be careful what you possess, because it ends up possessing you...It is kinda an Asian concept, and goes with the whole Ying Yang thing.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/13/2006 2:15:51 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:21:50 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL:
Who do you submit to and why?

I submit to the man that I believe will not abuse nor make me reconsider my trust. Its a matter of getting along on more than one level. If we cannot get long or have a vanilla conversation, then I cannot and will not submit.

quote:

Can you only submit to someone you perceive as being stronger than yourself? Physically? Mentally? Financially?

Yup. He has to be stronger than I am in some way, or at least be able  to calm me down and get me to relax so that his dominance will take over and I can relax into submission and not want that control back. Someone being phsycailly stronger than I am is not a big deal, most men are; its mental, emotional and psychologial that are where true strength and domincance come from.

quote:

Do you submit because of weakness in some areas of your life and you are looking for someone more competent than yourself in those areas? Submit because they pay your bills? Because they are more intelligent?

Nope. I my vanilla life I am very dominate, because I have to be. I am a single mom and I have to be 'take charge' otherwise their would be chaos. At work, I have to maintain control and keep my wits about me.

quote:

Do you perceive yourself as the "weaker" one of the relationship?

Nope. It takes a strong person to give up control to another person. That takes a lot of trust and it's nothing to do lightly or without making sure.


_____________________________

http://slaverosebeauty.livejournal.com/

"Friends live on in our hearts, regardless if they are here or not."

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:41:44 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Can you only submit to someone you perceive as being stronger than yourself? Physically? Mentally?


If you mean submission outside of a little bit of kinky sex, then yes. It's one reason I have yet to meet the person I could call master. I take that word rather literally. He will not be my master until he has actually mastered me. I'm pretty damn strong, and finding someone stronger to submit to has been a challenge.

quote:


Do you submit because of weakness in some areas of your life and you are looking for someone more competent than yourself in those areas? Submit because they pay your bills? Because they are more intelligent?


No, I submit because I'm compelled by my nature to do so. But, I'm also compelled by my nature to only allow myself that submissive response when it's healthy for me to do so. And that means someone strong enough, and intelligent enough, to channel my submission wisely.

Are there any weak areas in my life I'd like my dom to take charge of? Sure. It would be great if I had someone I could turn my paycheque over to, who would enjoy helping me handle my finances better. I hate dealing with money, but I also know I'll likely never be able to give up complete responsibility that way. Being an adult sucks, sometimes.

We all have weaknesses. In any relationship I think duties ahould be shared but wherever possible go to the one who is best at it.

I'm also happiest with a partner who cares about my writing, and enjoys helping me find the discipline I need to keep at it, and someday become published.

I don't see this as uniquely a submissive thing, really. In any good relationship partners should care about, and support, each other's passions. However, in a D/s relationship that support might just take the form of consequences and deadlines, things that might be perceived as bullying in a vanilla relationship.

quote:


Do you perceive yourself as the "weaker" one of the relationship?


Hmmm, this is a hard one to answer, because I never see myself as weak. Yet, I do crave to be with someone I see as stronger. I suppose it's more a matter of us having different strengths and weaknesses that compliment each other.

Good questions, Erin

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:44:00 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		I just LOVE the Gumby avatar, PlayfulOne!!! So domly!!



_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:44:44 PM   
OhBeMyMind


Posts: 845
Joined: 11/19/2004
From: Panama City, Florida
Status: offline 		He is stronger than I am, mentally and physically.  He is more intelligent that I am, in that he has been more places and experienced more things.  When he speaks of the places he has been, his job, etc. he holds my attention, doesn't matter that my insides are a mushy pile of jello and my breath feels caught in my throat.  Imagine the mess I am when we are doing more than having casual conversations.  LOL
I do not ever see myself being able to submit to someone I felt was weaker than I, less intelligent than I, and especially if they are not mentally stronger than I am....what would be the point?   However those are not the only things I look for either.....I mean he could be all of those things and still be a lieing, thieving, low-down scumbag....how attractive is that?
Sooooooo, to the question "Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself?"
My answer is:  yes.

_____________________________

~oh

~*~I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not~*~

~she'll tease you, she'll unease you, all the better just to please you~ K.C

~Well would you look at that! My give-a-damn just broke~

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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:52:38 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
My mind is always working on something, and I guess I need someone more intelligent to understand that and help me shut my mind off and just submit?


Oh, can I relate to this!! A man who can shut my brain down earns some pretty undying devotion from me!! And a lot of men think all it would take is a gag for my mouth, how mistaken they are!

Cin



_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:58:19 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I submit to Himself who was able to take my power with the second sentence he ever spoke to me. I didn't know anything about him other than what I had from second hand information from a mutual friend and I take such information with a grain of salt and a heavy dose of skepticism. In areas other than physical strength, we are fairly comparable, but those things were discovered afterwards and merely solidified what my inner slave figured out long before my brain did.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Can you only submit to one stronger than yourself? - 5/13/2006 2:58:46 PM   
impishlilhellcat


Posts: 4379
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline 		With my previous Master he was much stronger than I. That was one of my favorite things about him. When I felt weak he was strong and I felt so safe and comfortable being able to lean upon him. I do feel that I was the weak one in the relationship. I don't think I could submit to someone who was weaker than I am.

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Anyone who says they have only one life to live must not know how to read a book - Unknown

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