RE: Free College.

RE: Free College. (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:15:36 PM)
That is another topic, where our money is going. A redistribution of where the importance is needed in the budget would take care of this. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf What we cannot afford is investing in the future of our nation. We already do that by ignoring, politicizing, and using certain things as chips in some grand game of ping pong. To ignore education is to support ignorance. To ignore that we, as a country, are broke is ignorance. You can't "invest" what you don't have.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:17:28 PM)
We estimate that we can make medical school free for roughly $2.5 billion per year — about one-thousandth of what we spend on health care in the United States each year. What’s more, we can offset most if not all of the cost of medical school without the government’s help by charging doctors for specialty training.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:20:54 PM)
No, that is NOT another topic... somebody has to PAY for education. There is no money to pay for it... they are linked. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf That is another topic, where our money is going. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf What we cannot afford is investing in the future of our nation. We already do that by ignoring, politicizing, and using certain things as chips in some grand game of ping pong. To ignore education is to support ignorance. To ignore that we, as a country, are broke is ignorance. You can't "invest" what you don't have.

juliaoceania -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:26:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl We estimate that we can make medical school free for roughly $2.5 billion per year — about one-thousandth of what we spend on health care in the United States each year. What’s more, we can offset most if not all of the cost of medical school without the government’s help by charging doctors for specialty training. We could come up with a system in which they pay back their training by agreeing to work with people in a public healthcare system. Nothing stops them from receiving even specialty training, if they agree to use it as a part of working for a public insurer (not for profit health insurance)... we pay them enough to live on for lets say 10 years while they pay us back for their education

subfever -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:28:36 PM)
quote: What say you... should education be free? Unequivocably, yes. Let's utilize technology to its full capability, and deliver all levels of education in all fields, to all those who desire to learn. While we're at it, let's dump the monetary-economic system, and replace it with a far saner and sustainable system which serves all of humanity its environment.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:30:11 PM)
quote: We could come up with a system in which they pay back their training by agreeing to work with people in a public healthcare system. Nothing stops them from receiving even specialty training, if they agree to use it as a part of working for a public insurer (not for profit health insurance)... we pay them enough to live on for lets say 10 years while they pay us back for their education I have always liked this proposal... x amount of hours for a year worth of assistance, with x number of years to pay it off or you pay it out of your wallet. Im cool either way. I believe this should be that way for any medical profession. And before people start complaining about working and such... as a nurse, I worked 3 - 12 hour shifts and was considered full time. I would work another shift to pay back my loan. I could have easily worked in a clinic to pay back that amount. Work 48 hours, make a check to pay your bills, and your student loan at the same time.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:31:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Education and medicine are going to soon be at the top of the heap. Education and medicine HAVE been at the "top of the heap" for quite some time. There's no easy/simple solution... factor in the current economics of things, and it's a world-class cluster fuck -- one that placing our country even deaper in debt will not resolve. Our economic system absolutely can blow up... and many fear that this is exactly where we're heading without some serious cuts (i.e., pain for many) to spending -- not increases to spending. Here... anyone who thinks it's easy to just cut/fund this or that program ---> have a go at it. This exercise is a real eye-opener!!!

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:31:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever quote: What say you... should education be free? Unequivocably, yes. Let's utilize technology to its full capability, and deliver all levels of education in all fields, to all those who desire to learn. While we're at it, let's dump the monetary-economic system, and replace it with a far saner and sustainable system which serves all of humanity its environment. subfever? Did you not read the article in the OP? Or the rest of the thread? Its about medical education... and its been stated in the OP that it would not cause the government a huge outlay... not matter how much others want to scream it will.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:31:51 PM)
Very deceitful to cut off the sentence that addressed your comment directly. Rework the budget putting importance on different things, remove pork barrel spending and slush funds. That solution won't happen though, because the nation is too caught up in slinging mud back and forth between two sides, while those in power snicker behind their backs. Wonder how much we could save if we just paid for school through grade 7? Do you think that would help things? quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA No, that is NOT another topic... somebody has to PAY for education. There is no money to pay for it... they are linked. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf That is another topic, where our money is going. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf What we cannot afford is investing in the future of our nation. We already do that by ignoring, politicizing, and using certain things as chips in some grand game of ping pong. To ignore education is to support ignorance. To ignore that we, as a country, are broke is ignorance. You can't "invest" what you don't have.

juliaoceania -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:34:07 PM)
I had an award winning OBGYN because she worked her medical school expenses off this way. She was AWESOME... and I could never have afforded her if it were not for the clinic she worked at. I was private pay, and I had to go to a place that I could afford. She was so good she won a national award right before I went into labor. She got back just in time to deliver my son. I was sooo relieved because I trusted her greatly.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:37:51 PM)
Thats sorta the whole point, Julia. These arent people who push a button on a computer, nor make a phone call to do a fast trade on the exchange, or decide what next weeks marketing proposal will be. These are people who bring lives into this world, and do their best to save them while they are able. And yet here we are, some people actually willing to discuss the possibilities... and others screaming there are none because there is no money... even with a program that may not costs extra money. We have put a price tag on the human life. Is it high enough yet?

calamitysandra -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:38:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower Germany is also one of the countries where studying is close to free of charge (it was free of charge until approx. 5 years ago where a low fee was installed from just 1000 euro per year) and quite frankly I never had a reason to complain about the service I received from the docs back home...[8\|] The tuition fee was never installed in all of Germany, and it gets done away with in many of the Bundesländer who had it. Adding to this, you have to look at the German equivalent of student loans. If you qualify (parental income is the major deciding factor, if they earn too much, you are entitled to financial aid from them), you get half as an outright grant, the other half you have to pay back. But only up to an amount of 10000 Euro everything over that is a grant too. Now, the system is a bit more complicated, but in in nearly all cases you can get your first University education (up to your Bachelor, Masters only if it is a consecutive one, Doctorates are subsidised by a different program, but get help as well) free of tuition, and with a good part of your living expenses sponsored, comming out with just 10000 Euro of debt. Payback only starts when you have reached a certain earnings threshold. I honestly do not feel that the quality of German University education has suffered due to this practise, instead we, as a society benefit from it. And no there are not many US educated doctors in Germany.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:40:07 PM)
Don't be silly... I quoted what I addressed. I don't buy into the simplistic "redistribution" argument. It's not at all easy, and have subsequently provided a link for you to try your hand at. So go for it. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Very deceitful to cut off the sentence that addressed your comment directly. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA No, that is NOT another topic... somebody has to PAY for education. There is no money to pay for it... they are linked. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf That is another topic, where our money is going. quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf What we cannot afford is investing in the future of our nation. We already do that by ignoring, politicizing, and using certain things as chips in some grand game of ping pong. To ignore education is to support ignorance. To ignore that we, as a country, are broke is ignorance. You can't "invest" what you don't have.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:41:12 PM)
quote: And no there are not many US educated doctors in Germany Thank you, calamity. Its typically the first argument against Drs... that many from other countries come to the US system to be educated.

subfever -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:43:51 PM)
quote: subfever? Did you not read the article in the OP? Or the rest of the thread? Nope. I just read the title of this thread and your OP, which included: "Free College." "This seems to be a topic lately... free education in the US beyond high school." "What say you... should education be free?" You asked for an opinion, and I gave one.

SubmitIt -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:46:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Submittit and Pheonix... thank you both for your replies. I didnt want you to think your posts were ignored. Its interesting to see how other countries deal with the financing of higher education. Question for you both, if you wish to respond. Are there many physicians in your country that have trained in the US? No, I don't have any figures, but from my experience, and those of my family with various illnesses, there's some UK educated doctors, but very very few US ones. The exams here are different, and I think it's easier to transfer from the UK than from the US. Also, I lived in the US for some time, and the way the systems work seem quite different -- in the US I saw my actual doctors for very little time, mostly saw their assistant... in Ireland, it's all spent with the doctor.

Phoenixpower -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:47:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: calamitysandra quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower Germany is also one of the countries where studying is close to free of charge (it was free of charge until approx. 5 years ago where a low fee was installed from just 1000 euro per year) and quite frankly I never had a reason to complain about the service I received from the docs back home...[8\|] The tuition fee was never installed in all of Germany, and it gets done away with in many of the Bundesländer who had it. Adding to this, you have to look at the German equivalent of student loans. If you qualify (parental income is the major deciding factor, if they earn too much, you are entitled to financial aid from them), you get half as an outright grant, the other half you have to pay back. But only up to an amount of 10000 Euro everything over that is a grant too. Now, the system is a bit more complicated, but in in nearly all cases you can get your first University education (up to your Bachelor, Masters only if it is a consecutive one, Doctorates are subsidised by a different program, but get help as well) free of tuition, and with a good part of your living expenses sponsored, comming out with just 10000 Euro of debt. Payback only starts when you have reached a certain earnings threshold. I honestly do not feel that the quality of German University education has suffered due to this practise, instead we, as a society we benefit from it. And no there are not many US educated doctors in Germany. Well, I don't know the details as such back home with having been abroad for quite a few years now since it got introduced and not having studied in Germany, I thought it was introduced in every county...I only know that my parents paid off the student debts from my SIL... But I do agree to it that the quality certainly didn't suffer of the degrees... Just today someone mentioned to me the "high" taxes we pay in Germany when the topic came up that I am moving back home...now...I demonstrated to her that my salary is pretty much the same now at home compared to what I would be earning here in my degree job and quite frankly, having quite a good health care system and a free education, I am perfectly fine with the taxes which I am going to pay back home.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:49:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever quote: subfever? Did you not read the article in the OP? Or the rest of the thread? Nope. I just read the title of this thread and your OP, which included: "Free College." "This seems to be a topic lately... free education in the US beyond high school." "What say you... should education be free?" You asked for an opinion, and I gave one. try reading the articles... will become an eye opener

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:56:02 PM)
It is not being silly, it is showing that you modified someone's quote, for whatever reason. If you do not buy into the arguement, then address it, don't hack out part of someone's comment just because you feel the explanation is not valid. This is why I said it was a topic by itself, as the amount of discussion would exceed the current OP. So to save money should we drop free education down to grade 7? quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Don't be silly... I quoted what I addressed. I don't buy into the simplistic "redistribution" argument. It's not at all easy, and have subsequently provided a link for you to try your hand at. So go for it.

calamitysandra -> RE: Free College. (5/29/2011 3:56:20 PM)
What does happen is that about a fourth of all German students go abroad for one semester. From those 13 % go to North America. Many of those are exchange students, so we get the same amount of American students back. But going to the US for the whole degree is truly seldom. With education basically free here, not many see a reason to go to a different country and pay. Especially as the standard is high here.

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