RE: Free College.

RE: Free College. (Full Version)

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 4:41:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven This is the engineering mindset: Identify problem, propose solutions, analyze solutions, pick the best one. Unfortunately, most of the normal process today is Propose solution, make up bullshit numbers to justify it, lobby for it. In the proposed case, it would subsidize one of the wealthiest groups in the US, which is the last thing we need to do. This is the liberal mindset: Open someone elses wallet and throw their money at a problem.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:27:39 PM)
Who's wallet is being opened, willbe?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:32:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Who's wallet is being opened, willbe? From the wording of the OP, the taxpayers, as usual.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:34:54 PM)
Wrong... try again.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:36:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Wrong... try again. Its your thread, why dont you tell us.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:38:11 PM)
I have, in at least three different posts. We estimate that we can make medical school free for roughly $2.5 billion per year — about one-thousandth of what we spend on health care in the United States each year. What’s more, we can offset most if not all of the cost of medical school without the government’s help by charging doctors for specialty training.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:42:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I have, in at least three different posts. We estimate that we can make medical school free for roughly $2.5 billion per year — about one-thousandth of what we spend on health care in the United States each year. What’s more, we can offset most if not all of the cost of medical school without the government’s help by charging doctors for specialty training. Uhhhhh what part of that says it ISNT the taxpayers? Who is going to "charge doctors for specialty training". As I said in early on, the whole concept is absurd.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:43:46 PM)
Its the Doctors who are paying. What do you care who is charging them?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 5:51:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Its the Doctors who are paying. What do you care who is charging them? Because they wont pay!!!! You seriously think that someone going into a specialty that they already pay through the nose to do are going to pay to subsidize someone who doesnt???? You must live in Orlando or Anaheim, because youre in Fantasyland.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 6:22:11 PM)
Thats the point. IF you want to specialize, then you pay. If not, you dont.

BeingChewsie -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 6:31:00 PM)
quote: It states there is a shortage of Primacy Care Physicians because most who are in medical school prefer the bigger bucks to be found in specializing. The article offers no solution to that issue. A vast majority of med students are going to choose specialities because they pay much better, they see less patients, they work less hours and they have more prestige. That has nothing to do with the cost of med school. Nothing in that article addressed how to change that. It is human nature. Do you seriously know very many people that if offered 2 jobs, one paying $50,000 for 40 hours of very stressful work and one paying $150,000 for less hours and less stressful work would choose the first? I don't. Until you address that issue in primary care, the provider problem will continue. It is a no brainer. If you want more providers in primary care, you have to pay better. When push comes to shove, it comes down to money, because good will and altruism do not pay the mortgage. So under this proposal med students who want to specialize will have to borrow more than they do now to subsidize these other students who will get to go for free? They are going to pass that cost right on to YOU the patient when they go into practice. You can bank on that. They are not going to absorb those costs, they are going to bill all of us for them.

BeingChewsie -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 6:37:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Thats the point. IF you want to specialize, then you pay. If not, you dont. They pay to specialize now. So the cost to attend goes up a little, big whoop if I'm a med student. They simply finance out the additional amount and when they graduated and complete their residency, they bill to cover the additional costs you forced them to loan out to subsidize other students. How does that get more people to choose primary care over specialties? They still will make more over the long term and work less in a specialty than in primary care.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 6:39:08 PM)
Not if the Health Care Law isnt overturned. Most people need PCP's for preventative care. And they are already charging us out the ass for their "specialty" care. Of those going into residencies, 12 choose PCP, the other half a specialty. You cant open the residency rolls, there isnt room. You cant open more schools because you cant open the residencies. What you are left with is two choices. NP's are increase PCP's. I would still love to see a study of those who are going to medical school as to which they would prefer. Might be eye opening. quote: A vast majority of med students are going to choose specialities because they pay much better, they see less patients, they work less hours and they have more prestige. And they are welcome to do so. It doesnt negate the fact that some will take the other option, perhaps choosing to go into a specialty later on, or not at all.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 6:40:23 PM)
quote: They pay to specialize now. So the cost to attend goes up a little, big whoop if I'm a med student. They simply finance out the additional amount and when they graduated and complete their residency, they bill to cover the additional costs you forced them to loan out to subsidize other students. How does that get more people to choose primary care over specialties? They still will make more over the long term and work less in a specialty than in primary care. What makes you think they dont already charge us? Do you know they also get a stipend to specialize?

BeingChewsie -> RE: Free College. (5/30/2011 7:20:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What makes you think they dont already charge us? Do you know they also get a stipend to specialize? Of course they do and they should! If we want med students to choose primary care over specialities, then we need to pay for primary care like we do specialities. Charging them more tuition for specializing won't incentivize them into choosing primary care. The loans will be paid off in 10 years one way or another, if they choose the speciality they will still make significantly more for less hours worked over the course of their career than the person who chose primary care and went for free. It is a cost/benefit analysis, and the specialties will still win, just like they do now. We need a different solution.

ModTwentyOne -> RE: Free College. (5/31/2011 1:18:27 AM)
Wow look, 48 posts pulled. I'm pretty sure the rules of debate don't include name-calling and personal attacks.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/31/2011 1:27:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl What makes you think they dont already charge us? Do you know they also get a stipend to specialize? Of course they do and they should! If we want med students to choose primary care over specialities, then we need to pay for primary care like we do specialities. Charging them more tuition for specializing won't incentivize them into choosing primary care. The loans will be paid off in 10 years one way or another, if they choose the speciality they will still make significantly more for less hours worked over the course of their career than the person who chose primary care and went for free. It is a cost/benefit analysis, and the specialties will still win, just like they do now. We need a different solution. Question, did you read the article? The stipends the specialist would recieve would be gone. 50000 a year. But those who want to get specialty training would have to forgo much or all of their stipends, $50,000 on average. Because there are nearly as many doctors enrolled in specialty training in the United States (about 66,000) as there are students in U.S. medical schools (about 67,000), the forgone stipends would cover all the tuition costs. While this may seem like a lot to ask of future specialists, these same doctors will have paid nothing for medical school and, through their specialty training, would be virtually assured highly lucrative jobs. The proposal, as I read it, is that all med students, up to the level of PCP, would get free medical training. Beyond that, they have to pay and would lose their stipends. For some, it would make no difference. For others, it could make all the difference in the world. The article was not presented as a fix all, just something to kick around and discuss the possibilities.

tazzygirl -> RE: Free College. (5/31/2011 1:36:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ModTwentyOne Wow look, 48 posts pulled. I'm pretty sure the rules of debate don't include name-calling and personal attacks. Thank You Mod21, for all your hard work!

thompsonx -> RE: Free College. (5/31/2011 5:18:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Something given has no value, Tazzy. The love your mother gave you has no value?

thompsonx -> RE: Free College. (5/31/2011 5:25:41 PM)
quote: Personally, I feel like we have too many college grads already. Why Subsidizing more will make our country pay for a surplus of educated jobless, Why do you equate jobless with educated? and a dearth of blue collar labor. Are you saying that blue collar labor should not be college educated? Are you suggesting that college is a quicker more assured path to financial security than trade school?

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