Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (Full Version)

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PhilSlave -> Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:06:00 AM)

Feminist author Susan Maushart (What Women Want Next) writes: "Now that women have been more or less successfully mainstreamed, the achievement feels unexpectedly hollow. For one thing, we are tired. If doing what men do on top of what women have always done is Having It All, most of us have decided we'd prefer a smaller portion."

Feminism has fizzled; it's crumbled under the weight of its own shaky foundations. So does this mean that women should go back to the kitchen? Is this where they belong, forever chained to the stove and the bedpost?

The answer -- fundamentally -- is "no." But a very cautious "no."

If women want freedom and equal rights, then they have to grow up. Equality does not mean self-entitlement, and liberation cannot be just a convenient excuse for unbridled narcissism. Men and women should be equal partners in this world, but such a lofty goal can only be achieved if women start acting like equal partners -- that is, giving instead of constantly demanding and taking.

If women want equality, they should be prepared to willingly shoulder their share of the burden. In other words, they should be ponying up their half of dating expenses, dying on the front lines, enjoying career success because of merit and hard work (not gender), and not relying on men to mop up all of life's dirty work.

If women want equality, then they should be honest and expect true equality. No longer should they be allowed to get away with the hypocrisy of acting like a traditional woman when a tire needs changing or the dinner check arrives, then crying feminism when it's time for a promotion at work.
Women Can't Have It All...
Here's what it boils down to: Women know what they want, and at the same time, have no clue what they want. They want everything both ways. But, for better or worse, they have changed the world, and if they want to profit from this change, then they need to start learning what equality really means.

If a woman chooses to stay in the kitchen, that's fine. But if she wants to hold her own in a "man's world," then she should make an honest woman out of herself. As Maushart observes, "Getting everything we wanted was the first miracle. Learning how to live with it may require a second."



DeviantlyD -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:11:33 AM)

What does this post have to do with BDSM in particular? This belongs in the Off Topic Discussion group.

As for your commentary, what is the purpose behind it? You are making authoritative statements that are, in actuality, opinions.

Based on the threads you have started, I question the sincerity of any of your statements on this board.



PhilSlave -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:13:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

What does this post have to do with BDSM in particular? This belongs in the Off Topic Discussion group.

As for your commentary, what is the purpose behind it? You are making authoritative statements that are, in actuality, opinions.

Based on the threads you have started, I question the sincerity of any of your statements on this board.


I am asking for others opinions on statements.You can't question that surely?



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:16:19 AM)

I think she can, given that the title of this board is 'general bdsm' and you seem not to understand the concept of 'general bdsm' in any way.



DeviantlyD -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:17:06 AM)

You must think people here are incredibly stupid.

I have no interest in participating any further in your games. Therefore, you are on ignore. I'm sure you won't be bothered though. And neither will I. :)

Edited to add: Damn! VC got in a post before my reply. So just for clarification, the above comments are directed towards the OP.



PhilSlave -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:18:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

I think she can, given that the title of this board is 'general bdsm' and you seem not to understand the concept of 'general bdsm' in any way.


Unfortunately the last part of the title about true power was cutoff, the implication is many look for pseudo power e.g. BDSM or accept the traditional role as their 'place'



VaguelyCurious -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:27:29 AM)

Like I said, I think you must not have been around very many real life kinksters.



Aderious -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:29:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilSlave
Feminism has fizzled; it's crumbled under the weight of its own shaky foundations. So does this mean that women should go back to the kitchen? Is this where they belong, forever chained to the stove and the bedpost?


Yes. Absolutely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilSlave
If women want freedom and equal rights, then they have to grow up. Equality does not mean self-entitlement, and liberation cannot be just a convenient excuse for unbridled narcissism. Men and women should be equal partners in this world, but such a lofty goal can only be achieved if women start acting like equal partners -- that is, giving instead of constantly demanding and taking.

If women want equality, they should be prepared to willingly shoulder their share of the burden. In other words, they should be ponying up their half of dating expenses, dying on the front lines, enjoying career success because of merit and hard work (not gender), and not relying on men to mop up all of life's dirty work.


Empty talk. Never going to happen. The whole point of feminism and other victimhood ideologies is to acquire maximum privileges for the victim group with minimum responsibilities. Wimmin are never, ever going to voluntary give up undeserved privileges nor take on additional responsibilities to "even the balance".

Feminism isn't about equality. Never has been or will be. There cannot be true equality between the sexes. One side must necessarily be in charge, to the detriment of the other. Currently the west has a system of matriarchy. The alternative is to return to patriarchy. There is no middle ground, because any middle position will inevitably turn into one of the two extremes.



PhilSlave -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:35:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aderious

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilSlave
Feminism has fizzled; it's crumbled under the weight of its own shaky foundations. So does this mean that women should go back to the kitchen? Is this where they belong, forever chained to the stove and the bedpost?


Yes. Absolutely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilSlave
If women want freedom and equal rights, then they have to grow up. Equality does not mean self-entitlement, and liberation cannot be just a convenient excuse for unbridled narcissism. Men and women should be equal partners in this world, but such a lofty goal can only be achieved if women start acting like equal partners -- that is, giving instead of constantly demanding and taking.

If women want equality, they should be prepared to willingly shoulder their share of the burden. In other words, they should be ponying up their half of dating expenses, dying on the front lines, enjoying career success because of merit and hard work (not gender), and not relying on men to mop up all of life's dirty work.


Empty talk. Never going to happen. The whole point of feminism and other victimhood ideologies is to acquire maximum privileges for the victim group with minimum responsibilities. Wimmin are never, ever going to voluntary give up undeserved privileges nor take on additional responsibilities to "even the balance".

Feminism isn't about equality. Never has been or will be. There cannot be true equality between the sexes. One side must necessarily be in charge, to the detriment of the other. Currently the west has a system of matriarchy. The alternative is to return to patriarchy. There is no middle ground, because any middle position will inevitably turn into one of the two extremes.



You really think it's swung that far?



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:40:58 AM)

I think this does Apply to the 50's Household as a lifestyle, which makes it valid in the context of General BDSM. Mind you I have been following PhilSlaves posting with a raised eyebrow for a bit.



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 3:42:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
Like I said, I think you must not have been around very many real life kinksters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
Like I said, I think you must not have been around very many real life kinksters.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
Like I said, I think you must not have been around very many real life kinksters.

Ditto on that....



crazyml -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 4:30:50 AM)


[ED to fix quoting cock-up]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aderious

Empty talk. Never going to happen. The whole point of feminism and other victimhood ideologies is to acquire maximum privileges for the victim group with minimum responsibilities. Wimmin are never, ever going to voluntary give up undeserved privileges nor take on additional responsibilities to "even the balance".


That's an interesting interpretation, but somewhat at odds with the actual reality of the feminist movement, and those other "pesky" movements you allude to (Are you including the civil rights movement in america in your list of 'victimhood ideologies' - It would be interesting to know whether you're a racist as well as a sexist!). The whole point of feminism is to acquire the same privileges that men have held exclusively for generations.

quote:




Feminism isn't about equality. Never has been or will be.



In that case, I guess that all that fighting for equal pay for the same work done was just a pesky by-product?

quote:



There cannot be true equality between the sexes. One side must necessarily be in charge, to the detriment of the other. Currently the west has a system of matriarchy. The alternative is to return to patriarchy. There is no middle ground, because any middle position will inevitably turn into one of the two extremes.



Wrong planet. On this one the west is still largely built around patriarchy.



PdxJ -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 4:58:17 AM)

For the most part, I am for equal rights. Women actually contribute quite a bit; they are (for the most part) intelligent, empathic, intuitive thinkers and multi-task a lot better then men do. However, I totally agree - if we're going to have equal rights, by God, make them equal.

Having dual standards (one for men/ one for women) is crap.
I watched a firefighters training camp documentary once and female firefighters are NOT required to lift as much, run as far or do the same obstacle course as the men. WTF is that?  Seriously? So, if my house is on fire I'm fairly screwed if the girl brigade shows up right? I'll be dead and my house/ belongings are a smoldering pile of ash cause little MaryAnne wasn't required to lift the hose and run 50 yards further in a set amount of time? Go go feminist movement. Screw that.

And the nonsense - don't hit a girl? LOL - whatever. If a women has the cajones to hit me, she should expect to get hit back.

However, I am extremely chivalrous. I always open the door for a woman, light her cigarette, help her with her coat, wait til she starts to eat before I will, etc, etc.

There is a huge difference between treating a woman like a lady and equal rights.
I would happily date a female firefighter, treat her like a lady and dazzle her with romance but if she can't get her fat ass up that ladder to save me from being burned - she needs punched in the mouth.

It seems like in the work place, and this is generalizing, but women tend to be able to do the same jobs men can do so long as it is not a physical job. Men and women think on 2 different levels and sides of the brain. Women offer the business world an excellent perspective in a lot of ways but they do not have the physical capabilities a man does. 



PhilSlave -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 5:01:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PdxJ


It seems like in the work place, and this is generalizing, but women tend to be able to do the same jobs men can do so long as it is not a physical job. Men and women think on 2 different levels and sides of the brain. Women offer the business world an excellent perspective in a lot of ways.



I disagree, A woman's work is never done.



PdxJ -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 5:05:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilSlave
I disagree, A woman's work is never done.


And that has what to do with anything I said?



PhilSlave -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 5:07:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PdxJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: PhilSlave
I disagree, A woman's work is never done.


And that has what to do with anything I said?



Because a woman's work is never done...?



PdxJ -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 5:10:40 AM)

No ones is - welcome to earth!



Aynne88 -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 5:13:31 AM)

Oh my god really? Well the law assures me that I can indeed have and demand equal pay for equal work. I also can guarantee that I can still enjoy having him change my tire and pick up the dimer check. Every time. That's really what chaps you fellas asses isn't it? That we can have both, all, some or none of it? Yep.

Oh and that fat assed female firefighter deserving a "punch in the face"? Wow. I take it  you haven't looked at a lot of the male counterparts? Or how about the 5-0's? Damn, I see so many fat assed male cops I wonder how they would ever catch a criminal on a foot chase.

Feminism isn't dead and it isn't a victim ideology as someone above stated. I am not a victim, if anything, I see a lot of women, submissives included, wielding the majority of power, albeit in a non-traditional way.  That's the sting for the men that usually are crying about the evils of feminism.

Gotta go to work but I am sure you men will have this whole feminist thing figured out by the  time I get back. [8|]. 



PdxJ -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 5:18:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Oh my god really? Well the law assures me that I can indeed have and demand equal pay for equal work. I also can guarantee that I can still enjoy having him change my tire and pick up the dimer check. Every time. That's really what chaps you fellas asses isn't it? That we can have both, all, some or none of it? Yep.

Oh and that fat assed female firefighter deserving a "punch in the face"? Wow. I take it  you haven't looked at a lot of the male counterparts? Or how about the 5-0's? Damn, I see so many fat assed male cops I wonder how they would ever catch a criminal on a foot chase.

Feminism isn't dead and it isn't a victim ideology as someone above stated. I am not a victim, if anything, I see a lot of women, submissives included, wielding the majority of power, albeit in a non-traditional way.  That's the sting for the men that usually are crying about the evils of feminism.

Gotta go to work but I am sure you men will have this whole feminist thing figured out by the  time I get back. [8|]. 



I don't care if they are male or female - listen carefully instead of reading what you think it says:
Everyone should be held to the same standards.
If fat male firefighter can't get up the ladder then he needs fired to. If fat male cop can't run 6 blocks - fire him. If the girl firefighter CAN do the same training - she should be hired.

Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth but seriously - learn to read.



LaTigresse -> RE: Are Woman the real losers in the feminist struggle, is this why they will never have true power? (5/30/2011 5:22:19 AM)

Dear Phil, slave to your own sad reality.......

I will be certain to alert the guard when I feel I am losing.

And yes unAwareness......this latest crop does make you nearly...........NEARLY........ look like Alan Alda.[:D]



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