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How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 9:43:24 AM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		This morning I saw something at the market while I was at the cashier, a man was roughly pulling along a little girl, assumingly his daughter, yelling at her, even giving a slap to her face. The little girl dident seem to be doing much of anything wrong from what I could see, even though such treatment I dont see as acceptable in any case, after a moment the man was approached by another guy, big biker type, and words where exchanged, something to the effect of try that on me and such things...the man silently dragging his daughter out of the market soon after that rather meekly.

So why wasent I the one to confront the man? Because I know what it was to be in that little girl's position, this asshole was a bully and likely a bigger asshole at home, and because of this confrontation, that little girl is likely to be beaten much worse then what would be unfortunetly normal once they are in a position to be alone.

I pose this question to this board because at least in my life I've seen numerous things like this happen, while thankfully I havent seen many cases of child abuse, I have seen things where husbands beat wives, or guys slapping or pushing thier girlfriends around when i'm out, which ussualy results in me getting involved physically, not being a hero, I just dont like assholes who hurt girls, and besides, these arent kids, they're people my age and older who can take care of themselves. Having gone into this lifestyle though and learning more about it, it's a bit difficult to discern between what is just a dom and a sub in public or an actual SOB whose face needs to be shoved into a wall...or mirror as the case may be, hehe.

So...in both situations, what would the people here do? The abusive parent scene is one thing since we all can see this as a definite negative [I hope]. However with the second scenario, first how do you discern what is really going on? second, what would you do?

I've had people tell me in the second situation not to get involved, that it's thier life or some other bullshit, but I dont apologize for sticking up for someone just because I dont know somebody. Though if the girl is the type to immediatly start crying and siding with the guy who is on the floor who was sending strikes to her eyes I ussualy forget the whole situation, after all, if shes stupid enough to stick with a guy who beats her then hey, whatever, just leave the area calmly but quickly.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 8:17:34 PM   
NastyDaddy


Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		You did not specify the girl's age, but I'm assuming she was an adolescent. If child abuse is apparent at the market, the likelihood of it being present at the child's home are increased. If you have legit concerns based on your own adult observations then you would be correct in challenging what is assumed to be the father for his demonstrated mistreatment, or gathering other info such as their residence address and reporting your observances to an investigative agency or child protection services.

It could go either way yes... a confrontation, especially an ass whipping of the father could lead to the child's miserable next few days or week at home with his whipped ass. That in itself could lead to further mistreatment or abuse by the chastised parent. That basically throws the ball back to the latter option of reporting what you believe to be abuse to the appropriate agency, and allowing them to deal with the potential abusive parent.

I saw a similar incident happen in FL near a large Air Force Base. An AF Captain was at the courthouse annex to buy FL plates for his car, accompanied by his wife and two kids. The older of the two kids wanted an Almond Joy candybar from the vending machines and the father (Capt) told her no it was too close to dinner. That was not good enough for the little girl who pitched a fit and started screaming at her father. He then took her by the arm and spanked her bottom about three times and told her to behave. He was immediately arrested and charged with child abuse by a Deputy Sheriff at the annex who witnessed the same thing I did. My comments and concerns to the Deputy were answered by 'he can explain it to the judge'...

Over the following few months, that Captain's career was trashed, he was given low ratings by the elite unit officers he worked with and asked to resign his commission. Several months later the state dropped the child abuse charges and did not take the case to court, but the Captain was already gone and the military did nothing to correct the situation. That was the good old AF way... 'Guilty until proven guilty', and it ended a very intelligent young engineer's military career, and his future employment ability.

In the scenario I witnessed, timing was crucial... what you perceive over what you actually saw may not be genuine reality, so your subsequent steps should take that into consideration.

Don't pull the trigger unless you know for sure that you really do need to do so.

(in reply to Rumtiger)
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RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 8:26:26 PM   
fastlane


Posts: 2159
Joined: 5/26/2005
Status: offline 		You call an Ass out, for beating a young girl, girl friend, wife, etc.
What happens?  They may cower, or they may try to kick your ass, but in the end, they go home and kick the shiat out of the victim.
We can't control that Bro. It's a a damn shame, but we are truly helpless.
If it's a young girl we can call in social services...If it's a wife or girl friend it is up to them to torch the bed...
I'd intervene, but I'd worry about it for so long after that.....I don't know..I just don't know?

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
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RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 8:49:44 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline 		I've confronted mothers who have dared to smack their kids around in front of me at the grocery store.  However, I doubt I'd actually get physically involved if the perpetrator was a man (issues of my own childhood abuse crop up then and it freaks me out).  I'd be much more likely to follow him out, get a license plate number and then report what I'd witnessed to the police.
 
In the case of an adult abusing an adult in public, again, I'd not get physically involved by trying to break it up, but I'd definitely be dialing 911.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to Rumtiger)
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RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 9:51:31 PM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		I forgot to mention, the old lady behind me in line did the very thing you all said, leaving her grocieries with me after telling me she was gonna report them [I guess she figured I wouldent steal grapes] on her cell phone.

Nasty Daddy, thanks for telling me that, it'd be good to know should I ever have kids when I start wearing blue as well...though it's doubtful i'll ever be able to raise a hand to them.

I dunno too much about the second situation though, I kinda feel calling the cops would be too much, besides who needs extra attention in some of the places I go, but these girls are adults...in fact a former vanilla girlfriend is one I met because her then boyfriend "tripped" in the restroom after smacking her around a bit. She and I are still friends to this day.

Eh but i'm cutting ya'll off, I asked for your opinions and you're giving them, please continue.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 10:16:38 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy
I saw a similar incident happen in FL near a large Air Force Base. An AF Captain was at the courthouse annex to buy FL plates for his car, accompanied by his wife and two kids. The older of the two kids wanted an Almond Joy candybar from the vending machines and the father (Capt) told her no it was too close to dinner. That was not good enough for the little girl who pitched a fit and started screaming at her father. He then took her by the arm and spanked her bottom about three times and told her to behave. He was immediately arrested and charged with child abuse by a Deputy Sheriff at the annex who witnessed the same thing I did. My comments and concerns to the Deputy were answered by 'he can explain it to the judge'...
What Rumtiger witnessed sounds like abuse to me, and I probably would have either done nothing, or taken and reported the license plate.   I'm a tough one on mothers, and hold them implictly responsible for allowing abusive men to take/take care of their youngins.  I'm just certain this isn't the first time the man is being an aggressive/abusive ass, and probably not only to his youngins.

In the FL case above however, I think the Deputy Sherif overstepped in what was a disciplinary action from a father to a daughter, and it is LARGELY the reason a huge percent of the youth population is out of control in these parts of the world where I am.  

Most children, when threatened with disciplinary action by their parents, threaten to call the police, and get their parents in troubles they've never dreamed of.   So the parents who know they have to go to work sometimes all day, back off to keep out of the system, because they know they cannot afford to take the days off of work to attend court and the myriad of other programs for parents who are allegedly out of control, when in my opinion, it is the children who are.   I have a great friend who's 14yo son is doing his very best to ruin her life, and not showing one ounce of remorse for all his behavior.  I pray to God everyday, that I am never in that predicament, because I would be doing this sooooo differently from what she is doing.

My father used to say, I will discipline you now, so that you don't have to be disciplined later by people who don't love/care about you, and he was right.   I adore lil people, and would lay my life down for mine, but he gets to behave in an acceptable manner or else...  M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to NastyDaddy)
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RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 10:16:45 PM   
MistressLove999


Posts: 201
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Daytona Beach, Florida
Status: offline 		There is a big BIG difference between child abuse and discipline. What you saw was abuse, if he had smacked her bottom with his hand, I would have considered it discipline.
Any man who hits a woman(unless in the lifestyle & and not with fist or in face) is a weak low life cowardly ***insert a long line of really nasty words here***!!!
And sadly yes, from my experience, if confronted with this in public, the male usually does go into a rage at home and it's all the child/gf/wife's fault. NEVER his!!
As one who knows exactly what you feel Rum, I would  say something too, if it was a child and I saw the abuse, I would vent on the asshole, and make sure I got his tag number etc. &/or hopefully make him angry enough to take a punch at me, then his ass gets busted for assault. I know, always a domino effect,,,,he goes to jail, loses job, or gets out beats them worse,,,on & on....they suffer until they are old enough to get the hell out of it......
If it were an adult female he was hitting, I would tell him loudly "You might hit her & she might let you but, you won't do it in front of me." To hell with the jerks.

I actually wrote a poem, I will share with you,,,,I hope to have it made into a poster and donated to the womens abuse shelters one day soon,,,,,,,,,,,

FOR THE CHILDREN


AS SHE SITS AND PONDERS HER LIFE SHE WAITS........
WORRYING... HAS SHE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICES?
FOR HER?? FOR HER CHILDREN??
SHOULD SHE GIVE IT ALL UP AND MOVE ON YET ONCE AGAIN?
BUT, STUBBORN PRIDE WANTS HER TO STAY.
SHE FEELS SHE HAS EARNED HALF OF IT ALL...
AND YET SHE WOULD GIVE IT ALL AWAY FOR THAT ONCE IN A LIFETIME TRUE LOVE.....
IT SEEMS THE ONLY LOVE SHE CAN TRULY TRUST IS THAT OF HER CHILDREN.
AS SHE SITS AND WAITS, SHE IS BETRAYED BY HER BODY YET AGAIN,
THE NEEDFUL LUST BUILDS AND BUILDS, YET SHE WANTS TO DENY HERSELF OF CARNAL PLEASURES...
SHE CANNOT CONTROL THE WANTONESS INSIDE OF HER.
IN ORDER TO DENY HIM SHE MUST DENY HERSELF.
IT'S SO HARD WHEN THE MIND AND THE BODY DRIFT INTO THOSE HIDDEN PLEASURES.
RUN! RUN! RUN! HER CONCIOUSNESS SCREAMS TO HER, DENY THIS! YOU MUST IN ORDER TO GO ON.
IF NOT IT WILL BEGIN AGAIN AND BECOME A VICIOUS CYCLE OF BRUTALITY AND PAIN TO BE FORGIVEN AT THE FIRST SIGN OF LOVE AND LUST.
YOU MUST GET AWAY NOT ONLY FOR YOURSELF BUT ALSO, ALSO FOR THE CHILDREN.
CAN YOU TRULY BEAR TO SLEEP ANYMORE? HEARING THEM WEEP?
CAN THEY BEAR TO HEAR YOU CRY YOURSELF TO SLEEP ANYMORE?
YOU HAVE THE POWER NOT THEM.
YOU HAVE THE STRENGTH. ALONE YOU ARE ALL POWERLESS.
BUT, TOGETHER YOU CAN RISE ABOVE ANY DEGRATION AND HUMILITY YOU HAVE ENDURED.
GO NOW. TAKE THEM UP IN YOUR ARMS AND NEVER LOOK BACK.
MAKE A NEW START, FOR THEY ARE YOUR FUTURE AND YOUR PAST.
THEY ONLY HAVE YOU TO PROTECT THEM.
THEY ONLY HAVE YOU FOR SECURE LOVE.
TAKE THEM AND RUN.... HIDE IF YOU MUST.
BUT GO NOW!!!
AND BE SECURE IN YOUR HEART YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING FOR YOUR CHILDREN.TO PROTECT THEM AND TO LOVE THEM.


SUE




_____________________________

Play nice & Be Well,

Mistress Love

(in reply to Rumtiger)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 10:53:16 PM   
Kedikat


Posts: 680
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		It is very possible, that the little girl, later suffered for the confrontation by the biker guy. That mans lack of self control and his public shaming may result in his shame being taken out on her. Sad, but true.
From time to time, I can't suppress My impulse to intrude on the side of the abused. But whatever the moment resolves to, I know there is a whole life of things going on that I cannot help. My white horse just can't take Me there.
Maybe the best thing in that particular situation, is to try and get a plate number off their car and report the incident. By itself, it might not trigger anything. But it could be a clue at some point for authorities when they need some evidence to act.
It is a huge frustration in life to see injustice, and feel powerless to do something really meaningful.
That particular instance was beyond your power to influence.
Look around and see if there are ways to make a difference in other things. Action, donation of money or time. At the least, just acknowledgement of things that aren't right.
You can't change everything, save everyone. But if you see one pass by, it helps to know you are doing something somewhere.

(in reply to MistressLove999)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 11:04:39 PM   
MistressLove999


Posts: 201
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Daytona Beach, Florida
Status: offline 		So true dear, but, also think about
If you call the low life out in front of this child then he/she will know and NEVER forget that some one actually stoood up to HIM for them.
Sometimes those small victories can carry you a long ways on a lonely road.

_____________________________

Play nice & Be Well,

Mistress Love

(in reply to Kedikat)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 11:06:49 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		If you really believe you witnessed child abuse, call the police.  Anything else is likely to do more harm than good.

(in reply to Rumtiger)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 11:14:10 PM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		I should say again it wasent that I dident know what to do, I made sure to keep the child's saftey in mind first rather than going with my instinct, and the incident was already reported, I was just curious what the people here would do, the situation with child abuse is something we all can agree on.

< Message edited by Rumtiger -- 5/13/2006 11:26:52 PM >

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 11:18:14 PM   
MistressLove999


Posts: 201
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Daytona Beach, Florida
Status: offline 		This upset you didn't it? You feel guilt for not jumping in? Don't let it eat you ok. You knew what the result would have been.(for the child)
It's just one of my extreme hard limits and one of the things that can fire me up in a heartbeat.

_____________________________

Play nice & Be Well,

Mistress Love

(in reply to Rumtiger)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 11:28:26 PM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		yeah I know, sucks to see the same situation where age is the only defining factor between the two scenarios and one you can do somehting baout, the other you cant as much. Like iI said, I was one of those kids before.

_____________________________

Fuck the Pandas!
-Moi

Mmm, I love me some kickboxers, you know why? Cause ya'll cant take a punch!
- Quentin Tarantino.

If they cant take a joke, fuck em.
-Tucker Max

(in reply to MistressLove999)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/13/2006 11:48:24 PM   
MistressLove999


Posts: 201
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Daytona Beach, Florida
Status: offline 		As I was.........so horribly long ago.......but I did make damn sure the cycle was broken........my girls had a wonderful, happy, safe, secure, childhood....with a loving tender caring father.

_____________________________

Play nice & Be Well,

Mistress Love

(in reply to Rumtiger)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/14/2006 2:03:01 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The problem with intervening in abuse situations is that your intervention might not be apreciated. When I had an appartment in east London, the bloke downstairs reguarly beat his partner. The first time I heard it my wife was distressed so I went downstairs to sort it out and I was stopped by the elderly neighbour of the abuser who was in his late 70s. He told me not to intervene because he had once and the woman being beaten had beaten him up and put him in hospital. The next time he had called the police and the woman was arrested because she attacked one of the policemen with a carving knife. I waited to get the bloke on his own and threatened him, saying that his beating his partner was stressing my wife and I didn't like it so the next time he does it I'll be beating on him. The abuse didn't stop but we didn't notice it as much and they moved out not long after, I doubt that had anything to do with me. But we did hear that the woman had been arrested again for defending her partner from the police.

Wish it was so that life would throw up easy solutions.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 5/14/2006 2:04:22 AM >

(in reply to MistressLove999)
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RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/14/2006 9:15:45 AM   
innocentJenna


Posts: 30
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		I most certainly agree. Most times getting yourself involved would not be wise for you, or for the victim. Reporting an incident as well as following up with the actions taken...is really the only safe way to really make a permenant difference in the situation.

*glares at any pathetic sickos who beat up on children*


(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/14/2006 9:37:06 AM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I have reported a man beating his wife, I have reported a mother abusing her child in a store...if I see something like this, I will do my best to intervene.  Hoping that if I am ever in a situation like that ( heaven forbid) someone would help me.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


(in reply to innocentJenna)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/14/2006 3:41:27 PM   
OnyxGoddess


Posts: 242
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I'm sorry but my son talked back to me and cussed at me in the store once and i smacked the daylights out of him.  I'm not ashamed.  I refuse to let him talk to me any old way he feels simply because he wants to "perform" in public and think that he's going to get away with it.  I'm sure the lady in the aisle where it happened thought I was being abusive but all she saw was that moment and nothing that led up to it.  After that moment he didnt dare do it again. 
 
None of us knows the whole story.  I'd say if you suspect abuse call DCF or some other child agency and tell them your concerns.  Too many kids know that if they act a fool in public nothing will happen.  Most parents are so damned scared of getting in trouble for talking to their kids the wrong way that they say and do nothing.  I'm not saying abuse doesnt happen.  It does. But one can't determine the facts of the whole situation without knowing all the details. 
 
I got in the middle of friends being abused by their men.  Same thing happened every time.  They'd get away for a minute...then next thing you know they are right back with them.  I even had one of their boyfriends threaten me and stalk me simply because I was trying to help.  I don't get in the middle of anything...anonymous tips are safer.

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/14/2006 5:51:23 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

In the case of an adult abusing an adult in public, again, I'd not get physically involved by trying to break it up, but I'd definitely be dialing 911.


This is likely the best scenario, but I have to tell you sometimes adrenaline kicks in and you don't think, you just act.

I overheard a domestic dispute in the hallway of my apartment building last spring. I shot out of my apartment, and was in the hallway demanding the guy let me take the woman into my apartment to talk to her, before I even realized what I was doing.

Smart? Nope, probably not, but I knew from crisis intervention training that nothing she said while he was standing there could be trusted, and I went into automatic mode.

They turned out to be nothing more than a pair of dysfunctional semi-adults who yo-yo between "I love you, I hate you!" on a twice weekly basis. I was very happy once they moved out and she stopped knocking on my door half-drunk to complain about him.

Sometimes we just react in defense of someone we see being hurt. I probably should have just called 911, and saved myself a headache, (and the risk of him really being an abuser and coming after me in revenge!) But in the end I did what my heart told me to do.

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: How do you know? What would you do? - 5/14/2006 6:49:36 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		I have taken the license numbers of several people and reported them.  I once was in the parking lot of a K-Mart store, when I noticed a car with a child of about four and an infant of about 8 months alone in the car.  I took down the license number and I waited until the mother had come out of the store some twenty minutes later.  Who knows how long she'd actually been in the store.  Once I was able to get to a telephone (this was before cell phones were so prolific), I called Child Protective Services and reported the situation I'd witnessed and provided the license number and a description of the vehicle.

I also have been reported by a "friend" of no my ex-husband's.  What he didn't expect, is that he would be under scrutiny as well.  (This was a pathetic attempt on his part to have the children removed from my care).  The social worker came to our home, interviewed me, the children and looked around the house and reported that there were no problems in our home or with our children.

It is the law that child and elder abuse is reported.  Spousal abuse is more ambiguous.  You don't have to involve yourself directly (meaning to attempt to intervene in the abuse itself, rather than reporting it) to make a difference. 

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
Profile   Post #: 20
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