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Stress and Hierarchy - 5/30/2011 4:12:36 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		I was watching a National Geographic special called KILLER STRESS... it originally aired in 2008, so it isn't new...

It covered all of the usual things we hear about stress being bad for us.... and how it manifests in our body, etc etc etc. None of that was anything new to me, but one thing I learned from it is that according to scientists, your position in society (whether you are a high ranking person, or a low ranking person) was a major factor in the stress that you are under. People who have less rank in the social hierarchy have more stress, view life differently as a result of how stress impacts their brain chemistry, etc. They showed photos of the human brain of people that had high levels of stress, versus those who had little. Where we live, what job he have, how other people treat us, all have an impact on our stress level, and they are related to our place in social hierarchy, too.

Now, for a thought experiment, consider the above to be true... people with chronic stress do not live as well or as long as people with little stress, and this is related to accident of birth (geography) and economic status. Does this change the way we think about having a classed society? Why or why not?

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/30/2011 4:49:18 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		Irrelevant. Our society has more possiblity of movement between classes than any in history. I also question any finding that lower "class" means higher stress.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/30/2011 4:55:17 PM >

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/30/2011 7:29:55 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		A pecking order where everyone claws the way to the top- but the one on top has the least stress?

I doubt it.  Consider tho that the least amount of stress is when one personally dies.   Then it is low stress.

I think it goes more to who is more agile at dealing with the cards of life-  which is not necessarily on position.

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/30/2011 8:59:44 PM   
Fellow


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quote:

Irrelevant. Our society has more possiblity of movement between classes than any in history.


This is a myth. The data suggest just an opposite:

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#despite-the-myth-of-social-mobility-poor-americans-have-a-slim-chance-of-rising-to-the-upper-middle-class-8

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/30/2011 9:15:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Irrelevant. Our society has more possiblity of movement between classes than any in history.


This is a myth. The data suggest just an opposite:

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#despite-the-myth-of-social-mobility-poor-americans-have-a-slim-chance-of-rising-to-the-upper-middle-class-8



Now go back, read my post more carefully than you apparently did, and respond to it if you like, because this doesnt.

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/30/2011 10:13:04 PM   
lickenforyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Irrelevant. Our society has more possiblity of movement between classes than any in history. I also question any finding that lower "class" means higher stress.


Of course lower class (poorer) people have more stress. The stress of survival is going to be much greater. Knowing that you could be jobless, homeless, and without transportation in a matter of weeks or months creates a lot of fear. Fear causes stress.


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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/30/2011 10:20:42 PM   
lickenforyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

A pecking order where everyone claws the way to the top- but the one on top has the least stress?

I doubt it.  Consider tho that the least amount of stress is when one personally dies.   Then it is low stress.

I think it goes more to who is more agile at dealing with the cards of life-  which is not necessarily on position.



You may be on to something with the "it goes more to who is more agile at dealing with the cards of life" BUT that doesn't negate the study. If a person deals with situations better than others, then that person will have less stress. I think it's safe to say that successful people deal with situations better. Also, if the place you're starting from is solid then you will have less stress.


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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 4:09:36 AM   
SilverMark


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Status: offline 		If you are worried about the basics, food, shelter etc. I would think that is a lot more stressful than the worries of those who have business or societal issues.

If you are raising your children in an area known for low income and high crime, it would be more stressful than if you are worried about your daughter's coming out social.

Truly makes a lot of sense to me, although I have always known there were poor people, I have always thought that they could work their way out of it, but that they had to make their own way.

It may very well be harder today, than it was when I was a much younger man.

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 6:16:43 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

Does this change the way we think about having a classed society


Not to me...what it does say is perhaps stress that affects the quality of life should be considered a mental health problem and treated accordingly.

Butch

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 6:23:45 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

A pecking order where everyone claws the way to the top- but the one on top has the least stress?

I doubt it.  Consider tho that the least amount of stress is when one personally dies.   Then it is low stress.

I think it goes more to who is more agile at dealing with the cards of life-  which is not necessarily on position.



You may be on to something with the "it goes more to who is more agile at dealing with the cards of life" BUT that doesn't negate the study. If a person deals with situations better than others, then that person will have less stress. I think it's safe to say that successful people deal with situations better. Also, if the place you're starting from is solid then you will have less stress.



To me it would be more stressful to have 3 houses- and a super fancy car.  The more stuff is--  not easier, IMO.   Yes- we need stuff- and basics-  but to have a ton of it- is not less stressful to me.  So I disagree with the study.  While it could be true- I doubt that in simple terms that it is the final word.

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 6:30:59 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		FR

Stress is in how you handle it. " How does it make you feel ? ".  Well people who know that nothing can make you feel anything are not subject to the ills of imposed aggravation/strife/bad luck.

So in the upper classes we have people who would not choose to feel anything if they did something that killed a million people. Won't lose a minute's sleep over it. However that the causes of stress are not applied to them is not necessarily true. This because they have much more to lose. Some just handle it differently and really, the best course is to not handle it at all.

Personality has alot more to do with it really. You take two guys that live next door to each other and have white picket fences and 2.4 kids. Same socio-economic status, similar "stress" levels in all respects. Well you can total one's 1963 split window Coupe and they will be calm. Certainly find out how mich insurance you have and things like that, but it really doesn't fuck them all up. The other, you put a scratch on his Yugo and he's all over the place yelling and screaming, threatening, all that, totally out of control. Of course he might not show it, but in his mind he is figuring out how to exact revenge, to make you miserable for the TERRIBLE thing you did, so terrible in fact it MUST have been intentional.

This class mobility thing, well that may have been true thirty years ago, but not now. Regardless, those who can take the punishment in stride in business, keep a cool head through adversity and find solutions are apt to make a bit more money than those who go home crying because they had harsh words with a coworker.

I see this as another chicken or the egg type issue.

T^T

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 6:45:58 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Look at those who win the lotto-  with in  a few years they are toast.  

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 7:06:06 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		It is said that if you took the money from a millionaire (back then a million meant something) and gave it to a pauper, in a few years the millionaire will again be wealthy, and the pauper will again be a pauper.

Of course that doesn't necessarily apply to old money, but like the lottery winner, many people have blown large inheretances, and find themselves worse off than before.

The problem with me is that I got into some pretty thick money too young. I blew it all. If I had been smart, I would never have to work again. Next time though..........

T^T

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 7:20:30 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Our society has more possiblity of movement between classes than any in history.


Interesting that this is actually an American myth. While we do have this possibility, and we widely believe it, data indicates otherwise compared with the UK, where the belief is class movement is difficult, but data shows more common than in the U.S.

Because of this belief, we more readily go along with plans that help the upper class.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/31/2011 7:21:35 AM >

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 7:24:51 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

If you are worried about the basics, food, shelter etc. I would think that is a lot more stressful than the worries of those who have business or societal issues.

If you are raising your children in an area known for low income and high crime, it would be more stressful than if you are worried about your daughter's coming out social.

Truly makes a lot of sense to me, although I have always known there were poor people, I have always thought that they could work their way out of it, but that they had to make their own way.

It may very well be harder today, than it was when I was a much younger man.


It is harder today. The nanny state has killed much of the incentive to improve your lot in life. And having lived everywhere from the street and asking friends for meals to where Im at now, by far the greatest stress was the first 3 years of my business,when I had 95% of my assets invested and a staff of 5 people depending on me to feed THEIR kids.

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 7:36:56 AM   
Icarys


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Status: offline 		Stress is stress, whether you are looking for food, running a business or running a country. It still works the same way on you.

As for me, I had way less stress living a day to day life as an employee than I do now as a business owner..Much more responsibility equals the possibility for more stress and often times translates into it..It all depends, as Term states, on how you deal with life.


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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 2:29:06 PM   
TreasureKY


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Status: offline 		I'd say there is a vast difference between social status and economic class.  While I would suspect that most individuals who have social standing are also in a higher economic class (with some exceptions, of course), the inverse is far from true.  Just because someone has a change in financial status, that doesn't mean they also automatically gain social standing.

Specifically to address the op, while I'd agree that there are some broad areas that can be generalized (ie, few financial resources for food most likely creates greater stress, and the responsibility of running a large company most likely creates greater stress), I truly believe that overall stress is something that cannot be quantified across the board for everyone.  Not only does each individual's personal value system affect what he or she deems important enough to worry over, everyone has a different capacity and ability for handling stress.

In other words, you can have very rich and influential people who haven't a care in the world, or rich and influential people who live every moment of their lives in fear of both social and economic failure.

In the same respect, you can have very poor that are extremely happy and worry for nothing, or very poor whose very lives are a worrisome struggle from moment to moment.

It all depends upon the individual.

I will say that, as has been mentioned a couple of responses here, I think in many cases the ability to handle stress has a significant impact on whether someone succeeds or not... which in turn can directly affect their economic class.  Again, no help for their social status, though.

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 3:40:34 PM   
EternalHoH


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Our society has more possibility of movement between classes than any in history.



You bet!  But then again, what are odds of winning the lottery?

BTW, I think there is a hell of alot more downward movement of hard workers (people getting screwed) than upword movment for the few who end up the lucky ones. I mean, seriously, how many more times can that barrel of oil be traded before its refined? That can't provide 'upward movement' for very many people, now can it?

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 5/31/2011 5:19:05 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I've been both poor and rich and now middle class. I had ten times more stress on me when I was poor...always wondering where and when I would get my next meal, if we'd have heat in our house for the winter or if I'd be able to take a bath before school because I never knew if we'd have running water or not.

When I had money to burn my stress was about should I go out and buy my daughter the hottest toy now or wait a few months when it wasn't so popular.

So yes from personal experience the lower the hierarchy the more stress because you're worried about basic survival necessities.

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RE: Stress and Hierarchy - 6/4/2011 5:57:55 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

If you are worried about the basics, food, shelter etc. I would think that is a lot more stressful than the worries of those who have business or societal issues.

If you are raising your children in an area known for low income and high crime, it would be more stressful than if you are worried about your daughter's coming out social.

Truly makes a lot of sense to me, although I have always known there were poor people, I have always thought that they could work their way out of it, but that they had to make their own way.

It may very well be harder today, than it was when I was a much younger man.



The studies that were done with other primates and their rank showed that the ones on the bottom of the hierarchy suffered from stresses such as aggression from other higher ranking primates, less access to resources. They even stored fat differently, because stress causes different hormones that impact fat storage, etc.

We are related to these creatures. We have social hierarchies, and life for people in lower rankings is filled with aggression, not only crime, but in the workforce. I do not know how many people have started out in an entry level job, but it can be brutal to work under those conditions from an emotional standpoint. To be constantly watched, performance judged, and in a situation that can be precarious because your position isn't very secure is stressful. Not to mention managers can be petty and cruel, often taking out their issues on underlings

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