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Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/13/2006 2:26:13 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I suppose all of us ask ourselves "who/what the fuck am I" on occasion. A few recent threadlines:

1. Why am I submissive 2. Its all about me 3. Can anyone see the comparison? 4. Fell in love with my slave, made mistakes in his training

have made me think the following about myself:

#1: I don't feel I am anything like littlesarbonn in "Why am I submissive." I have an inclination towards submission, but I would not consider it a natural state for me.

#2: I felt revolutionary energy from Darq's "Its all about me" thread. I can't stand "Its all about me" types. I hate them, loathe them, and want to mock them. Nothing irritates me more.

#3: In general, I have always been somewhat defiant and questioning of authority, but I do feel submissive to things I consider superior, sacred, and important. (This, though, would not include organized religion. I just feel to individualistic for it.)

#4: Lastly, I felt conflicted about the Domme who wanted to conquer and enslave her beloved. Somehow, the removal of his freedom seemed semi tragic to me, albeit the enslavement process was also enticingly seductive.

In sum: I have stong individualist, anti authority and rule breaking/bending tendencies. I also have submissive urges. Clearly you can see the conflict and contradiction here.

-----------

QUESTION: What contradictions do you fellow subs have about being submissive? What is it about you that defies the role?

QUESTION: What contradictions do you DOMs see in your own subs about being submissive? Do you enjoy this contrast (feistiness) or find it frustrating?



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/13/2006 2:32:57 PM >
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/13/2006 3:51:35 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
QUESTION: What contradictions do you fellow subs have about being submissive? What is it about you that defies the role?

I have absolutely no contradictions in MYSELF as a slave.  But I've probably defied everything thats ever been written about slaves at least once.
quote:


QUESTION: What contradictions do you DOMs see in your own subs about being submissive? Do you enjoy this contrast (feistiness) or find it frustrating?

Doms enjoy spirit and feistiness- but only on their own terms.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/13/2006 4:11:22 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
QUESTION: What contradictions do you fellow subs have about being submissive? What is it about you that defies the role?


Hmmm, so far the biggest contradiction I've seen for myself is my natural inclination as an Educator. It's very easy for me to go into teaching mode. Combine that with a naturally impulsive and impatient nature.

Now, picture a dom, standing with a coil of rope, and looking at a set of elaborate instructions for some complicated shibari rope halter.

Picture me, standing naked and a bit chilly in the middle of my living room, biting my tongue, as my mind screams...Here, just give it to me, it goes like THIS!!
 
This is just one of many such tongue-damaging moments I've had in the last 5 years.

I wouldn't change it for the world though, it's brought on some really funny moments, as well as more than a few sadistic ones. And, occasionally, when I meet someone who can look at me with that look, and my Educator voice seizes up and goes silent, it's been blissful.

Cin

_____________________________

Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/13/2006 4:32:40 PM   
Raethepain


Posts: 44
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		I'm one of those contradictory subs- I'm training as a Theatre Director, I'm known as "The Dictator" and I regularly get quips from my actors that I'd make a "wicked Dominatrix".

But hell, you get me in the bedroom and you can slap me till I bruise. I just see the dominant side I put on as a Director as a means to an end, but I really have to think about it. Whereas I'm a complete born sub. I always get the problem of having off days where I can't get in to being the dominant party, but as soon as I get back home I know my place...

(in reply to Vancouver_cinful)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/13/2006 8:44:32 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		I decline to answer, on the grounds I am still in the "who/what the fuck am I" stage.

All my life I have had problems with rules and authority in general and very passive aggressive. I dislike being out of control of situations in anyway. Consenting to willingly give up any type of authority at all, I mean REALLY doing it and not just "playing along", has been interesting.  Placing myself in situations where I have a sense of being out of control has been deliberate and almost experimental. Am I submissive?  I am not sure.  I guess that depends on how it is defined. More and more I find I enjoy bottoming, crave it actually.  (But the same is true for topping.)  Gradually there are aspects of an authority dynamic w/in a relationship that have evolved to give me positive feelings -- but others I could not tolerate outside of controlled situations.

While I find it quite a struggle or contradiction in many ways, I have noticed that those I am most involved with in "submissive mode" do not see me that way.  While I would not let the opinion of other define me, I do find interesting.  Do they see what they want to see, do they see something I just can't see yet, or do I just take on the role well even if it is not internalized?

In the end, it doesn't matter if my brand of submission or dominance contradict the defined norm.  It just matters how I interact with people I am close with and if it works for us.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 12:43:09 AM   
liks2plzlf


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		Some like golf, and some like mountain climbing. Some relish obedience to them, and some llike to surrender. I surrender! Dominate women rule!!!!

(in reply to Sensualips)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 12:49:51 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I dont feel any contradictions within myself in regards to my slavery to Master. I also really like the "its all about me" types, my slavery needs someone who is just as comfortable in their domination and control aspects. I love the demands, I live for the control..its just all really good for me.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to liks2plzlf)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 3:46:10 AM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

QUESTION: What contradictions do you DOMs see in your own subs about being submissive? Do you enjoy this contrast (feistiness) or find it frustrating?


The feistiness is part of her so contributes to our relationship - so, no, not frustrating at all.


_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 5:09:05 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy.

In sum: I have stong individualist, anti authority and rule breaking/bending tendencies. I also have submissive urges. Clearly you can see the conflict and contradiction here.


You could have just described me here with one exception; i am a slave to those one/ones i love, not just submissive but 24/7 real time live in. Considering the fact that you state you have submissive urges, not much of an exception at that.

I am most definitely an individual with strong opinions, beliefs and my own moral code. I have my own way of doing things, my own way of life. I was very careful while searching to only pick individuals whose lifestyles came close to my own.

Anti authority? Lol, i am a biker with all that the word implies. I've rode with a few of the oldest hardcore men to ever put on a set of colors. I do not believe you can get much more anti authority than flying a set of H.A."Property  Of "rags.

Rule breaking? I started racing bikes when it was strictly a man's game and i refused to be put out to play nice with the girls, i always rode men's class. I bought and kept a farm, i paid for by working two jobs; I was a socially acceptable nurse by day and a morally reprehensible stripper by night. So i guess you can say i always thought society’s rules were to be broken.

Do i see a conflict or a contradiction here? No.

I am a slave to my pair, whom i love. While i am respectful of any who are respectful of me, i bow to no others. In truth who would wish to own something just anybody could have?

Just be yourself, forget worrying about the conflict. The one you will truly belong to will love your individualism. 



_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 8:03:57 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

#1: I don't feel I am anything like littlesarbonn in "Why am I submissive." I have an inclination towards submission, but I would not consider it a natural state for me.


You see, I am wholly different; this way of interacting has for the most part always braided itself throughout my inner culture. I will always be the way I am—contemporarily socialized society or not. Yield or conquer, submit or dominate, be merciful or harsh—these are bestial, yin and yang forces in my world, but unlike some, I don't attribute something negative to submission at all.




quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
#2: I felt revolutionary energy from Darq's "Its all about me" thread. I can't stand "Its all about me" types. I hate them, loathe them, and want to mock them. Nothing irritates me more.


Whether it stems from the simple fact that I am too honest or tend to possess a different structure of personal philosophy, I wend upon an entirely different path of thought where this statement is concerned. I do say to my slaves that it is about me. But I understand that in making it about me, it is inversely about them, too; a truly slavish soul will be happy with this honesty and reality of subjugation. I am not obligated to this creature; it makes the loving stroke that I may give that much more meaningful.




quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
#3: In general, I have always been somewhat defiant and questioning of authority, but I do feel submissive to things I consider superior, sacred, and important. (This, though, would not include organized religion. I just feel to individualistic for it.)


I see a lot of so-called "authority" in society as an illusion, and to this I am likewise rebellious, one might say. Schooling, religion, law, politics, friends, family—so many of these institutions are plastic or riddled with double-standards that draws one into maddening loops. I have always respected the honesty of the M/s interaction when it is true. There is nothing more honest than catching a human soul and mind and making it yours without apology.




quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
#4: Lastly, I felt conflicted about the Domme who wanted to conquer and enslave her beloved. Somehow, the removal of his freedom seemed semi tragic to me, albeit the enslavement process was also enticingly seductive.


I personally think the reality of owning another human is beautiful when it is true. If she is to make a slave of him, she will make a slave of him. For a male with that belly-scraping need to truly serve, there is nothing more intoxicating or sanctifying than to know he is giving his mind, body and soul to a female that is his better—that there is meaning to his capture, and it's not just an elusive masked ball of the mind. Hackles raise when from her lips come the words, "you are my slave," and he knows she is not saying them simply for romantic effect or kinky benefit. When he can, in that instant, see whatever remaining years life may grant stretching chasm-like before him in complete and shameless servitude to her, making him shiver and shake. There are some who would sell their soul to the devil (or demoness), for it feels dreadfully right.




quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

In sum: I have strong individualist, anti authority and rule breaking/bending tendencies. I also have submissive urges. Clearly you can see the conflict and contradiction here.


I just think you would be (and are) a handful. As rebellious as you may be, I suspect there is something in you that craves to be forced—by a force you worship. When a promise is made here, there's no turning back might very well appeal to you, as horrifying as other parts of your psyche may find it. Just a stab.





quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
QUESTION: What contradictions do you DOMs see in your own subs about being submissive? Do you enjoy this contrast (feistiness) or find it frustrating?


Such a characteristic in a novice is somewhat endearing. A girl who should know better, however, is not enchanting in her feistiness. I like domination and submission to be a capture bonding experience. To continue with the dominant female/submissive male motif, it is ideal that when she wraps her hand around your balls, it is likewise wrapped around your mind and your soul. When she speaks, you feel that hand there; you attribute being in the presence of her body—or even voice—as being exposed and vulnerable, transparent and malleable. You fear her, as much as love her. That is ideal to me.


< Message edited by amayos -- 5/14/2006 8:53:24 AM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 8:45:05 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Ever the poetical philosophist, beautiful words once more.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 6:46:07 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I have absolutely no contradictions in MYSELF as a slave.


It seems to me you are rather free to run around and do pretty much whatever you want, which means that if I had to label you --- then I would call you an independent minded poly switch, not a slave.

If you were a slave, you'd have to follow someone else's rules and regulations all the time. So, as for me, I see a huge contradiction here in your statement. You are all about freedom, which is quite the opposite of slavery.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/14/2006 7:03:51 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 6:59:16 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful
Hmmm, so far the biggest contradiction I've seen for myself is my natural inclination as an Educator.


This is a very good example of your strong sided self in conflict with being submissive. I can really identify with you here.

quote:

Raethepain: I'm one of those contradictory subs- I'm training as a Theatre Director, I'm known as "The Dictator" and I regularly get quips from my actors that I'd make a "wicked Dominatrix".

But hell, you get me in the bedroom and you can slap me till I bruise.


Many FEMDOMs here might deride you as being a bottom, not a sub: submissive in the bedroom and vanilla outside of it. I happen to think that sexual submission or bottoming naturally creates a kind of d/s dynamic that any skillful Dom could use for their own dominant purposes. Also, IMO, a high functioning creative person like you with a submissive side is the ideal type of partner. Your partner would get a high octane vanilla side to go with the icing of your submission, and so would receive BEST OF BOTH WORLDS in your relationship.

quote:

Sensualips: I decline to answer


Well, you're just lucky I'm not your DOM, for you'd have to answer for this rude defiance.

quote:

slavejali: I dont feel any contradictions within myself in regards to my slavery to Master. I also really like the "its all about me" types, my slavery needs someone who is just as comfortable in their domination and control aspects. I love the demands, I live for the control..its just all really good for me.


You are quite similar to littlesarbonn.

quote:

Do i see a conflict or a contradiction here? No.


I think your Master and Mistress promote the substantive you, so its not "all about them." For strong individualistic subs, this is fundamentally important. Please correct me if I am wrong.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/14/2006 7:09:11 PM >

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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 7:02:22 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

You see, I am wholly different


Well, please know that I have never seen you as human. My fantasy is to see you and protagonistlily in a boxing match, or if not that, in a death defying game of speed chess with dire consequences for the loser.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/14/2006 7:09:58 PM >

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 8:26:54 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

QUESTION: What contradictions do you fellow subs have about being submissive? What is it about you that defies the role?


there are none---contradictions or aspects of this slave that defy "the role". 
 
perhaps because it isn't a role that is played, it IS who she is.  this slave is  comfortable with it~she doesn't struggle with it, agonize over it or have to come up with strategies to help her to get in touch with it or stay in that "mode" when she isn't physically kneeling naked at Master's feet.
 
it isn't something that starts and stops and the bedroom or dungeon door. it isn't something that this slave has expressed solely through sexual means throughout her life--it has permeated every relationship~to the point of even "playing" Dominant when it was warranted or demanded.  it isn't something this slave engages in to "balance" herself from the otherwise Dominant expression of herself.  for some folks, their soul-searching has come to a positive, peaceful and fulfilled conclusion!!!!!


< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/14/2006 8:28:53 PM >

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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 8:40:21 PM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

twicehappy

Do i see a conflict or a contradiction here? No.


I think your Master and Mistress promote the substantive you, so its not "all about them." For strong individualistic subs, this is fundamentally important. Please correct me if I am wrong.


The only correction needed here is i am a slave, 24/7 live in full time. Yes you are right, my owners revel in owning one who is an individual, this is no way conflicts with me being their slave. Rather it enhances it; an intelligent individual makes a better slave. I think you will find most owners prefer this.

But i could not be a slave to just anyone, much as you stated it must be something or someone i revere.


_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 8:40:59 PM   
pollux


Posts: 657
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Well, please know that I have never seen you as human. My fantasy is to see you and protagonistlily in a boxing match, or if not that, in a death defying game of speed chess with dire consequences for the loser.


Lily has a mean left hook.

Btw, the OP was a thoughtful post.  I can relate very well to a lot of what you've written there.




< Message edited by pollux -- 5/14/2006 8:42:41 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 8:56:59 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I suppose all of us ask ourselves "who/what the fuck am I" on occasion.

Usually during or after times of conflict or crises.

#1: I don't feel I am anything like littlesarbonn in "Why am I submissive." I have an inclination towards submission, but I would not consider it a natural state for me.

It is part of your nature, not the entirety of your personality.

#3: In general, I have always been somewhat defiant and questioning of authority, but I do feel submissive to things I consider superior, sacred, and important. (This, though, would not include organized religion. I just feel to individualistic for it.)

Yes, you only bow out of respect, not subservience.

#4: Lastly, I felt conflicted about the Domme who wanted to conquer and enslave her beloved. Somehow, the removal of his freedom seemed semi tragic to me, albeit the enslavement process was also enticingly seductive.

Fantasy and reality are so far apart.

In sum: I have stong individualist, anti authority and rule breaking/bending tendencies. I also have submissive urges. Clearly you can see the conflict and contradiction here.

I think that your question is how to find balance within yourself?
Or how do you handle the dynamic and changing energy?

QUESTION: What contradictions do you DOMs see in your own subs about being submissive? Do you enjoy this contrast (feistiness) or find it frustrating?

It is damned annoying when defiance just pops up out of nowhere,
especially if it is in a passive agressive manner.  Just keep your
triggers up front and obvious.
 
I prefer strong, intelligent submissives, not the ones with no
brains and no willpower. 
 
YMMV,
 
Vendaval
 




_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to cloudboy)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 9:13:09 PM   
Kirei


Posts: 146
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		  I have contradictions, but I have also tried to learn how to balance them within myself.  Maybe how to balance them in a sub/salve situation or as a dominant.  Looking at it from both sides has helped me see my faults and know them...it doesn't mean I've overcome them....I just know them slightly.
For me balance is key...then again I'm a natural Libra too...we need balance.

Koneko

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: Submissive Conflicts / Contradictions - 5/14/2006 10:35:22 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Yes, I think it all about balances and imbalances (as Kirei suggested too) --- which suggests that D/S s more involved than a rote obedience to authority or subservience to it.

(in reply to Vendaval)
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