^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^

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sunshinemiss -> ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 4:46:00 PM)
rather than hijack another thread... Hello Folks, There are certain things people need. I MUST have a, b, and c in order to be a functioning adult. I NEED x, y, and z to thrive. These are two different places on the line. AB and C are givens, hard limits of the positive variety. These can be things like - I need control over my work, my kids, my medical care for example. (What diabetic is going to allow a dom to dictate their regimen when the dom doesn't understand and doesn't care to learn? A suicidal one, that's what one). There are also emotional things some people require in order to maintain as a healthy, functioning adult - for example, an extrovert NEEDS other people. Most people NEED some time alone. Let's take it as a given that there are certain things a person NEEDS in order to be a functioning human - beyond food and water and sleep. And let's just, for the sake of argument, say that the person does indeed get them in the relationship. The extrovert s-type gets to spend time with friends, is involved in several group activities, etc. That's all good. Here comes the question (yes, there is one). At what point does the s-types non-needs, but the things that are needed to THRIVE... where do they come into the relationship for you? Several of the people in (what I consider) healthy, long-term relationships discuss their perspective as more about the relationship, maintaining it over what they whimsically want. Sometimes a D-type will do something just to make their S-type happy. To me that does not make them LESS domly, it makes them more realistic. It would make someone a good partner in my mind. However, I often see people posting things that say "you aren't being the dominant if you are giving the sub what they want". What? It's not always that overt, but it is an undercurrent. My perspective is that you have chosen to be with someone. In every relationship people MUST compromise to some degree - both in the moment and at times for the long term. The D-type is NOT always the most important person in the relationship. This is obvious for things like if the s-type is sick or incapacitated or something. But what about where the s-type needs things to THRIVE emotionally? The only analogy I can come up with is - if I work in a lab because it's the only job I can get, I can do fine with it, but if I were designing costumes because that is where my talent and passion are, then I would rather do that and THRIVE. I don't want merely to survive, I want to LIVE! While writing this the idea of Matt Damon's character in Good Will Hunting came to mind - a janitor at MIT. He did fine as a janitor, but it was when he interacted with others that were as smart as he that he began to thrive. And by the way, Robin Williams' character actually said something to him ... sure, you can do that, but look at where you are being a janitor - the morst prestigious, intellectual school. Hmmmm. (paraphrasing) Where is that line for the D-types about supporting the things that are not your thing but will make the s-type happy? I'm not talking about watching the ball game while your partner makes jewelry - that's parallel. I'm talking about doing the thing you don't particularly care for in order to make the s-type happy. For example, your s-type wants to .... loves ballroom dancing, and you don't. You actually dislike it. It is an activity that requires 2 people. Will you dance with your s-type just to bring your partner some happiness? How often? Or will you allow someone else to bring that joy to your s-type? Or will you require your s-type to forgo the thing that brings them passion in order to bring you pleasure or less discomfort? Feel free to expand upon the question itself. I'm not sure it 100% asks exactly what I'm looking for, but it's in the ballpark. best, sunshine ETA: And let's forgo the whole "well a smart dom would not try to take over the medical needs if they didn't understand it." I'm gonna presume real life interactions here, realistic people. Mmm kay?

sexyred1 -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 4:52:54 PM)
Well, sunny, here's the thing. You are totally right about what a healthy relationship looks like for you. And for me. I also need specific things and I compromise on others. If someone decides that it would unDomly to not give me those things, they are gone. If a vanilla guy decided to not give me those things I need to thrive, he is gone as well. This goes back to a point I made on an earlier thread that said that some people mythologize BDSM to the point where they are more concerned with the definitions of the roles and playing that out, than in obtaining whatever it is they need to thrive. Also, there are alot of selfish assholes on both sides, men and women, Dom and sub, so that might happen out of selfishness. And then, there are dynamics that are different from what you and I would like; those people function as a unit in whatever way they have decided works for them. So if one person is lacking or sacrificing, is the better word, what they need to thrive, then that person has made the choice to accept less than what they need. For me, relationships are two way streets, requiring mutual compromise, whether it is D/s or not. Both people need to fulfilled, not just one.

SimplyMichael -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 4:57:10 PM)
I am going to steal a line from one of the few dominants I look up to, Knight of Mists: quote: Her needs before mine, my wants before hers There are a couple of ways to bind someone to you. You can do some smoke and mirrors, make her feel so low that you are the only man that would want her... OR You could be such a radical departure from the douchebags she has dated before that she would be a fool to leave. So, if she leaves, you know she is a fool. I bust my ass to be the most romantic, thoughtful, sadistic, attentive, sick and twisted lover my partner has ever had. I am quite demanding in return and I tend to get what I want. Works for me, clearly your mileage may vary.

littlewonder -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 4:59:12 PM)
I like to think I've chosen wisely in a partner and a Master over my life and thus I completely trust him with anything he wishes to control be it my health, finances, job, etc..because he's a smart, realistic, down to earth man who makes good choices in his life and because of that I can trust him with anything in my life and not be overly concerned. So being the type of man he is my only non-need to thrive with him is that he listens to me...not that he understands me <yeah I would love this but as an adult I realize that not everyone sees absolutely everything with the same thought pattern>, not that he'll do as I request but that he simply listens. Again this all comes down to compatibility, finding someone that fits you well.

slaveluci -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:03:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss At what point does the s-types non-needs, but the things that are needed to THRIVE... where do they come into the relationship for you? Several of the people in (what I consider) healthy, long-term relationships discuss their perspective as more about the relationship, maintaining it over what they whimsically want. Sometimes a D-type will do something just to make their S-type happy. To me that does not make them LESS domly, it makes them more realistic. It would make someone a good partner in my mind. quote: Where is that line for the D-types about supporting the things that are not your thing but will make the s-type happy? I'm not talking about watching the ball game while your partner makes jewelry - that's parallel. I'm talking about doing the thing you don't particularly care for in order to make the s-type happy. For example, your s-type wants to .... loves ballroom dancing, and you don't. You actually dislike it. It is an activity that requires 2 people. Will you dance with your s-type just to bring your partner some happiness? How often? Or will you allow someone else to bring that joy to your s-type? Or will you require your s-type to forgo the thing that brings them passion in order to bring you pleasure or less discomfort? In our m/s relationship, the things I need to thrive are considered very important. Master routinely participates in things that I want/like even if they aren't something He would necessarily choose on His own. He allows me to listen to 70's pop/rock music in His presence and He hates it. He watches movies at home and in theatres (and TV shows) that He would never watch if I wasn't present and enjoying them. He attends functions (work and pleasure) that He knows it's important to me to attend. We just spent most of a week's vacation in WV visiting my mother and siblings when I know He would much rather have just relaxed closer to home. But then...upon returning to AR....we did just that for a couple of days. We compromise and work together....always. It makes us happy to see the other happy, "dominant" and "submissive" aside.........luci

LafayetteLady -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:06:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci It makes us happy to see the other happy, "dominant" and "submissive" aside I think the above sums up what will make a successful relationship for everyone.

Arpig -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:10:08 PM)
It really depends on what the activity is. I have physical limitations due to a bad back. There are some things I can't do. If it is something I can do, but hate (say going to the opera) then no, I won't be taking part. However, as a rule, I think I'd be happy to allow her activity, with me participating if I were able and it weren't too boring an activity to me. If it were something I couldn't (or plain wouldn't) do, I'd most likely allow her to do it with somebody else. But I'm not much on control anyway. To me the whole idea is for her to be as happy as possible while allowing me to do whatever I damn well want to/with her. If that means regular trips to the art gallery, or that she takes tango lessons with a male friend...so be it. Given the age range of the women I am most interested in, they'll have a whole slew of things they like to do that I'm just no longer interested in. Go to it, have fun my slut, be home by 2. As long as she is here when I want her here and does what she's told, its all good. I don't care how undomly I seem to anybody but her. Her opinion of me is the only one that I give a shit about. Her submission is the only proof of my dominance that has any weight in my world.

sunshinemiss -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:16:28 PM)
If all of this is the case - and I do believe you folks about your relationships - why is there so much of an attitude from folks saying that doing what the s-type wants isn't domly? You are a service top (like that's a bad thing). You aren't in control. The s-type is the one in control. Etc. I see it all over the place.

LafayetteLady -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:20:50 PM)
I that might simply be semantics. What you call a service top, others call a dom or master. As long as the people in the relationship are good with whatever roles they define themselves as, what you or me or the pope calls it is insignificant.

Arpig -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:21:29 PM)
Because those people are more worried about being perceived as a Dom or a sub, than in actually being one. To many people, appearances are far more important than reality. A pox on you Sunny, for starting an interesting thread just as Game 1 is starting!!

VaguelyCurious -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:31:16 PM)
FR I've got nothing on why people say this particular crazy thing on the internet, other than that people say crazy things on the internet. But I've got a different perspective on the issue of what you need to thrive and who should be providing that. My parents' marriage has been going for thirty-five years now (I think, and if not then I'm underestimating, not over.) Their relationship is highly functioning - they rarely row, and they love each other to pieces. But they don't support each other's 'need to thrive' projects and interests at all. My dad does not take my mum dancing; she takes herself. My mum does not follow my dad around jazz gigs; he goes with friends. If there's a play one of them wants to see they ask the other one if they're interested; if not then they might ask me, and if not then they find someone else to go with. They see themselves as in charge of their own fulfillment. And for them it works - you can't argue with 35 (possibly+ if I can't count) years of happy marriage. And I suspect that if I had a partner whose interests were that different from mine then I'd expect that same sense of self-responsibility from them.

sunshinemiss -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:33:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady I that might simply be semantics. What you call a service top, others call a dom or master. As long as the people in the relationship are good with whatever roles they define themselves as, what you or me or the pope calls it is insignificant. Perhaps. And the people who are not in a relationship? Frankly I think it's a reasonable question to ask. In fact, I daresay that it should be one of many questions that one learns the answer to when embarking on a relationship. While many people will give up their control willy-nilly to some person with a Capital Letter in their name, a healthy person generally will not. How will my non-needs that I need in order to thrive be addressed? Or will they? Is it actually that this is where the rubber hits the road? You aren't subly if you want to thrive more than you want to give up control? You aren't domly if you want your sub to thrive mroe than you want to have control? Thinking "out loud" here .... what I've written is a process=y question. It's not that I've made up my mind. It's that I'm thinking... best, sunshine (Ar - I'd say I'm sorry, but it'd be a lie. [:)] )

sunshinemiss -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:37:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious FR I've got nothing on why people say this particular crazy thing on the internet, other than that people say crazy things on the internet. But I've got a different perspective on the issue of what you need to thrive and who should be providing that. My parents' marriage has been going for thirty-five years now (I think, and if not then I'm underestimating, not over.) Their relationship is highly functioning - they rarely row, and they love each other to pieces. But they don't support each other's 'need to thrive' projects and interests at all. My dad does not take my mum dancing; she takes herself. My mum does not follow my dad around jazz gigs; he goes with friends. If there's a play one of them wants to see they ask the other one if they're interested; if not then they might ask me, and if not then they find someone else to go with. They see themselves as in charge of their own fulfillment. And for them it works - you can't argue with 35 (possibly+ if I can't count) years of happy marriage. And I suspect that if I had a partner whose interests were that different from mine then I'd expect that same sense of self-responsibility from them. Totally with that VC.... But I suspect (dont' know, but suspect) they are not in a D/s relationship. best, sunshine

slaveluci -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:38:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss If all of this is the case - and I do believe you folks about your relationships - why is there so much of an attitude from folks saying that doing what the s-type wants isn't domly? You are a service top (like that's a bad thing). You aren't in control. The s-type is the one in control. Etc. I see it all over the place. But not from me and the others who've responded here so far[:)]. Sure lots of people are of that opinion and they're certainly entitled to it. They just happen to be wrong when it comes to MY relationship....luci

aromanholiday -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:40:51 PM)
Figuring out what you need to thrive seems like a very good starting point for finding the right sort of person or type of relationship that you need. When I ask myself this question (and I have, frequently, over the years), I always get the same answer. The only thing that's absolutely necessary--for me--is strong control by someone I deeply admire, even worship. It's also important that the other person want to control me, that it brings them pleasure. Everything else is a"nice to have"--if even that. So that is what I look for.

littlewonder -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:40:58 PM)
as I've said before it comes down to compatibility. We see it everyday, even I'm to blame for this...jumping quickly into relationships with someone, moving in with them, etc...without knowing who that person is, how they will affect each other's lives, if their needs and wants will get met and not realizing what really IS important as a need or want for themselves. Yes in my relationship his needs and wants come first. I knew that before ever getting involved with him. I thought long and hard about what I wanted, what needed before I got together with him, I made choices on what is and is not important to me in comparison with having him in my life. Yes he gives me certain things at certain times when I request them or when he feels I need them but he is not in any way catering to me. It's his choice on what I get and need and when. If I didn't want it this way I would not have involved myself with him. Unfortunately though many people don't really think this kind of stuff through and to be honest most seem to just jump cunt/dick first and then come on here crying about their busted relationship. But hopefully we all learn this lesson eventually.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:44:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss Totally with that VC.... But I suspect (dont' know, but suspect) they are not in a D/s relationship. Heh. No they aren't (and wasn't that the world's most embarrassing discussion. [8D]) But we say all the time that d/s relationships (I am trying very hard to get out of the habit of capitalising dominance-related words) are much the same as non-d/s relationships when it comes down to it - especially when it comes to fulfillment. Actually, the sentence I was about to type next makes me think that maybe I do have an answer for you on why people say those things. I was about to say 'Happiness in never a zero-sum game, even in d/s relationships.' It occurs to me that maybe the sentiments you're talking about come from people who do view happiness as a zero-sum game, and therefore think that 'giving up' some of their own happiness isn't dominance. It's twisted, but I guess it's logical if that's where you start from.

sunshinemiss -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:46:46 PM)
Sadly, I must get ready and go to work. :( ... I so hope the conversation continues. One of my love / hate things about my life is that I get to come back and see where things have gone. I'm ofttimes pleasantly surprised. As frequently, I'm not-so-pleasantly surprised. best, sunshine

leadership527 -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:55:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss If all of this is the case - and I do believe you folks about your relationships - why is there so much of an attitude from folks saying that doing what the s-type wants isn't domly? You are a service top (like that's a bad thing). You aren't in control. The s-type is the one in control. Etc. I see it all over the place. It's a meme... one of many. It's one of the great reasons that I have no interest in being a dom, master, or any other BDSM title. All by itself this is one of the biggest reasons that I see the BDSM landscape as "poisoned" from a relationship standpoint. If you want my best guess, this is yet another place where bedroom fantasies are being extended outside the bedroom. You know, cause in the fantasy she's the helpless slave girl and I take my pleasure from her before casting her aside to busy myself with my manly interests. For Carol and I none of this is really a question. The whole problem relies on the assumption that there are "her needs" and "my needs" and "her wants" and "my wants". We don't have those things. We barely even have the concept of "her" and "me". Since I only have "our needs and wants" I don't need to play mental games worrying about who's a service dom (ME ME ME ME ME!) and who's serving who and all that rubbish. I get to just prioritize the list according to what seems most needful and make it happen. It's really not that hard to run a relationship so long as you forget everything you ever heard in BDSM-land.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ (6/1/2011 5:58:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss If all of this is the case - and I do believe you folks about your relationships - why is there so much of an attitude from folks saying that doing what the s-type wants isn't domly? You are a service top (like that's a bad thing). You aren't in control. The s-type is the one in control. Etc. I see it all over the place. I could get flamed for this, but really this type of nonsense reminds me of when I was a newish domme and had to prove myself. The whole, it's all about me (as the domme) fuck what the sub wants. Subs needs are for food and water and sleep...the rest are wants, whatevah. That's all fantasy bull shit that does not translate into healthy long term relationships. Of course you need to understand and support what your sub needs to thrive. Just as they need to understand and support what the dom needs. Relationships are supposed to be symbiotic, not parasitic.

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