Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 7:31:00 PM)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-elderly-homicide-20110602,0,7583841.story


This is a wrenching story with no winners.

As the article points out,there will be more and more stories like this in the coming years.



pahunkboy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 7:34:32 PM)

I cant read that.   Sorry. 



Owner59 -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 7:43:39 PM)

You may have to live it some day.

I`m going on 18 and a half months caring for someone with terminal dementia, who`s had a stroke and just broke a hip and six other health problems.

Never would have believed I`d be doing this two years ago.



pahunkboy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 7:49:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

You may have to live it some day.

I`m going on 18 and a half months caring for someone with terminal dementia, who`s had a stroke and just broke a hip and six other health problems.

Never would have believed I`d be doing this two years ago.



That is why I cant read it.   Too much of a possibility.  Maybe tomorrow. (which is not much of a response, and not acceptable when one needs fed and changed)



tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 7:55:25 PM)

Wow.. just... wow.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 8:22:57 PM)

Until last year, my family took care of my aging Father and terminally ill Mother. We had Home Hospice help us, and they provided everything, including a Nursing Assistant that came in 3 days a week, an LPN once a week, a social worker once a month, a Minsiter once a week for my Mom. This cost us nothing, Medicare took care of it all. It was only the last couple of years that we needed there help. They taught us many things, and the rest I learned via research on the internet. I had always said that if at any point I thought we could not make their quality of life better than a nursing home, then they would go.

My Father passed away June 11, 2010 of a severe infection that came on suddenly. My Mother passed away in her sleep on Sept 9, 2010, after a dose of moraphine. Neither had bed sores, the house was kept clean, and though my Dad suffered from dementia and other mental issues, he was kept changed and washed.

The story is sad, and I will not pass judgement, but at a certain point someone has to make tough decisions. That is why my Dad and Mom gave me full power of attorney. They both said they would rather pass away at home, than alone in a nursing home, and though there were many sacrifices we made, I would not change a thing. I measured their care by the amount of smiles they had each day.

The Home Hospice people wanted me to do some speaking for them, because so many out there are not taking care of their elderly, and the stress on the rest of the family takes a lot of dedication and internal fortitude to manage.

If anyone is in this situation, do not be afraid to have their Doctor refer them for review by a Home Hospice, and then check the Home Hospice out. You can at anytime decline services of Home Hospice.

I had said over a year ago I would no longer share personal things here, but I think Granny (my Mom) and Papa (my Dad) would want me to share this.



tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 9:02:24 PM)

I cannot imagine how many cracks that poor woman (the one who died) fell through.



jlf1961 -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 9:16:23 PM)

With the lack of health care for so many in this country, this is going to happen more and more often.



Marini -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 9:47:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

With the lack of health care for so many in this country, this is going to happen more and more often.


This is sad, but it did make me think of this video.

Paul Ryan look a like pushing grandma off a cliff

Sad thing is, many really do think this is far fetched.
To think this is a total joke, might not be wise.

Many really STILL don't realize, making drastic cuts and changes to medicare, WILL push many of US, off a "proverbial" cliff.

And, I surely will/would be one of those, I know damn well I will need it, if I live long enough.

My fixed income will be relatively meager, and I will need medicare, I CAN imagine having to pick between eating and medical care.

I can imagine protesting and fighting this until the day I die, and if retired I will have the time hopefully to do just this.
It's a fucking shame, and just the fact that medicare and medicaid is "on the table", should be a wake up call to even the most clueless among us, that this country is in bad fucking shape.



tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 9:59:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

With the lack of health care for so many in this country, this is going to happen more and more often.


This is .. travesty.

And everyone thinks the health care in this country is the best?



tweakabelle -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 10:43:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

With the lack of health care for so many in this country, this is going to happen more and more often.


This is .. travesty.

And everyone thinks the health care in this country is the best?

Yes. What a heart-breaking story. It reduced me to tears.

And yes. A damning indictment of the health care system. I can't understand why the niece, who had struggled for 3 and 1/2 years to take care of her poor Nonna was charged. Something is terribly wrong when caregivers are persecuted.



tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 11:15:11 PM)

Because, tweak, as much as it is heart breaking, the odor and condition of the home, along with the condition of the woman when she died, deserved to be investigated. Not all cases are like this with someone doing their best... and their best just wasnt good enough. Our elderly are often victims of family abuse... not always... but its a shame it took so long for them to come to that conclusion.

The 91 year old woman should have had someone coming in to check up on her... to hell with what her "insurance" would pay... or the lack of her insurance.

Call me morbid.. but I wonder what the cost of a home health visit, once a week even, would have cost compared to the 14 months in jail and the legal fees.



tweakabelle -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 11:27:55 PM)

Yes. I can see that perspective tazzy. And you are right.

My impression from the article was the niece was more out of her depth than anything - overwhelmed even. And it wasn't clear if she was aware of the various options for assistance open to her either. And I really don't know enough about the details of the healthcare system over there to make a judgement. My feeling was that her heart was in the right place. It shouldn't have needed a trial to establish that.

It's just so sad. No winners. Just heart break.



tazzygirl -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 11:36:04 PM)

I agree with you, it shouldnt have gone that far. Perhaps an overzealous prosecutor? Maybe a push from the DA, the Governor, the Mayor.. who knows.

And, yeah, I also agree the niece was in over her head. Welcome to just a glimpse of the things I have seen for years from our "best in the world" health care.



tweakabelle -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/2/2011 11:58:30 PM)

Yeppers hun. My heart goes out to you having to deal with cases like this day-in day-out. You must have much more strength than me. I wouldn't be able to cope with that.

Our system here is far from perfect but it's unthinkable that a case like that might occur. If it ever did, there would be an uproar. Nursing homes and care for the elderly are heavily regulated and the regulations are strictly enforced. There have been some scandals about poor hygiene and food, but I can't recall anything approaching this. pahunkboy has started another thread of an appalling case of rapacious Wall St types asset-stripping a nursing home company in the UK, jeopardising 31,000 old folk.

The more I hear and learn about it, the more I am convinced that healthcare is far too important to be left to anyone whose first priority is not the people being cared for. What makes it even crazier is that State-run universal healthcare systems are far cheaper than privately run systems. It's such a no-brainer.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/3/2011 12:08:23 AM)


Failure of the health care system?????? Its a failure of her niece. The care could have been found if she wasnt a total incompetent.



tweakabelle -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/3/2011 12:13:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Failure of the health care system?????? Its a failure of her niece. The care could have been found if she wasnt a total incompetent.



Well there you go Willbur.

When you graduate from playing with your war toys, there's a vacancy for you in the DA's or Prosecutor's Office. I hope they haven't got the death penalty in California.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/3/2011 12:23:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Failure of the health care system?????? Its a failure of her niece. The care could have been found if she wasnt a total incompetent.



Well there you go Willbur.

When you graduate from playing with your war toys, there's a vacancy for you in the DA's or Prosecutor's Office. I hope they haven't got the death penalty in California.


At an average cost of $52 k a year just for their jail time, they should clear death row a lot quicker.



LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/3/2011 1:07:21 AM)

I actually read all the words in that article. The problem was that every time the great-niece tried to bring someone into their home to help, to treat the sores, the great aunt would get upset & demanded that no outsiders were to be brought in. I never have had to take over for an incompetent elder in my family. Fortunately they've all died before they got to that point. But I have been a caregiver for a couple of them from time to time. And when the elderly person is refusing care, do you have them declared incompetent & taken away from the only home they've ever known against their wishes?? It was amazing that the old lady survived that long at all.

The niece may not have known exactly what to do for her beloved great-aunt but I do believe she did her best. It's entirely possible that the reports of the filth in the home were exaggerated. I wasn't there so I don't know. But apparently there is this skin failure issue. If a liver can fail, a kidney can fail, why can't skin fail? It's the largest organ in the body. And the explanation that her having lost 65% of her body weight could cause such a thing is plausible. Should they have forced her into a hospital & put a feeding tube down her??

I think that what the great-niece did for this old lady was a blessing. And I'm irate that she was put in jail for 14 months while they investigated & tried her. Why wasn't she allowed to be out of jail during that time so that she could take care of her little girl?? Did they really think that she might take all her riches & flee the country??? Did they think she might be a serial elder abuser? I'm sure that racism was at work at least in part here. I'll betcha if it had been me in a similar case, I'd not have had to stay in jail until the trial & subsequent acquittal.



thishereboi -> RE: Death of 91-year-old spotlights line between care and killing (6/3/2011 5:31:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

With the lack of health care for so many in this country, this is going to happen more and more often.


this didn't have anything to do with a lack of health care. The lady didn't trust doctors and wanted nothing to do with them.



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