Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 3:19:28 PM)




Ilyas Kashmiri, a top Pakistani militant and senior Al Qaeda operative, reportedly has been killed in a US drone strike in the tribal territory of South Waziristan, according to press reports and a statement from the group he headed.



http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2011/0604/Top-Pakistani-militant-Ilyas-Kashmiri-reported-killed-in-US-drone-attack



US drone kills 26/11 planner Ilyas Kashmiri in Pakistan


http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/Pakistan/US-drone-kills-26-11-planner-Ilyas-Kashmiri-in-Pakistan/Article1-705663.aspx


IIyas Kashmiri one of most dreaded terrorists to step out of J&K


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IIyas-Kashmiri-one-of-most-dreaded-terrorists-to-step-out-of-JK/articleshow/8729821.cms

I heard one reporter describe President Obama as not letting up on the gas in going after and killing al-queda`s leaders and fighers.

Gobama!!




Hillwilliam -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 5:30:32 PM)

Good. Too bad we cant bring our boys home and just cover the damn country with drones.




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 5:35:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Good. Too bad we cant bring our boys home and just cover the damn country with drones.


I think eventually that is exactly what we will do and should do...I'd love to tell Afghanistan we are leaving tomorrow...but you don't want us to come back because if we do we will bomb you back to the century you seem to live in.

Butch




Politesub53 -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 5:41:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

but you don't want us to come back because if we do we will bomb you back to the century you seem to live in.

Butch


Except this doesnt work, as shown by the fact that ten years on we are still there. Troops on the ground in large numbers are the only way to win. It is either that, or leave them to slug it out and cut a deal with the winners.

As for the drone attacks. I am all for it as long as they are not screwing up and bombing wedding parties. Each civillian death sets back the fight for hearts and minds.




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 6:03:17 PM)

No...I mean we leave...Clinton had the right idea for Iraq and it would work for Afghanistan. I don’t care, and it should not be our business, what kind of government they form. All that should count are their actions towards us. If they leave us alone we leave them alone…If they don’t we destroy their ability to attack us. That is easily within our ability with air power...always has been.

Butch




Politesub53 -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 6:13:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No...I mean we leave...Clinton had the right idea for Iraq and it would work for Afghanistan. I don’t care, and it should not be our business, what kind of government they form. All that should count are their actions towards us. If they leave us alone we leave them alone…If they don’t we destroy their ability to attack us. That is easily within our ability with air power...always has been.

Butch


No it isnt, as shown by 9/11. Afghanistan isnt a nation of cities on a map that you can bomb out of existence at will. Its a collection of tribes largely in rural areas, making them a difficult target. Lets not forget America was unable to stop two dozen men armed with craft knives. Rumsfeld or Cheney, I am unsure which, was certain you could destroy the Taliban from the air. This was despite the war department telling him otherwise, ten years on we are still there, proof bombing doesnt work.




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 6:19:18 PM)

Yes we can...nothing we are doing in Afghanistan today would prevent the attacks you are pointing out.. We have seen with Obama's policy on drone bombing how effective it can be with special forces accompaniment.

We don't need to be nation building in Afghanistan...they have a right to decide the government they want.

Obama is on the right track but I feel it can be speeded up even more... Myself I don't want one more drop of American, or British, blood spilt for unappreciative assholes…They deserve to live under the system they allow.

Butch




Politesub53 -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 6:22:41 PM)

Butch FFS if the Afghanistani people have the right to build whatever nation they like, what the hell do you think America and the UK are there for ? The whole reason for the invasion was to defeat the government that they had, IE the Taliban. We cant keep them put without having troops on the ground, to suggest otherwise is laughable, as shown by the last ten years.




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 6:43:12 PM)

I believe we went there to kill or capture those responsible for 9/11...we have. If the majority of Afghanistan’s want Taliban rule then that is how it should be.

It is time for them to decide not us. If the existing government can show it represents the majority then I see nothing wrong with continuing to provide them air support if they request it…that should be enough.

We have no moral right to decide for them the type of government they want to live under...we went there to defend ourselves...we did...it is done... time to leave.

Butch




Politesub53 -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 6:47:17 PM)

It was Taliban rule that allowed AQ to operate. How do you suggest the west can prevent that, without troops in Afghanistan ?




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/4/2011 6:53:02 PM)

We don't... I'll say it one more time... the people of Afghanistan deserve the government they allow...If this means the Taliban so be it. If they harbor terrorists then we use drones...special forces... and air power to eliminate the threat.

But I'll bet even if they regain power they will not be stupid enough to allow terrorists to ruin their country again.

Butch




Aneirin -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 2:51:23 AM)

Ah, that depends who is in in power and how strong they are, or even how pro western they are. Remember, people are fickle, even more so those in power, they can be bought or persuaded.

My understanding of the situation in afghanistan, is Afghanistan as a region of the world holds strategic importance to western interests, and so the buying of the Afghans is important so Afghanistan can be a front line member against the enemy, or even a place to launch attacks from via the stationing of western militaries. Think Iran, not Iraq, for that threat has been taken care of, but think Pakistan even, for no one knows where that country will move it too is fickle it seems, and it's current stance just could be because of the western military power next door.

But who or what is the enemy, the terrorist ? The Muslim? Or anyone who opposes western interests ?

Israel for example, is the Western support all about religion, or is it because Israel is a largely pro western power amidst lands that could be enemies ? For I feel the religion aspect in this situation is a red herring, but religion has the fortunate habit of garnering support where normally there might not have been. Israel is one of America's front line allies against possible problems in the region, as if it wetre not for Israel and it's superior military power paid for by America, what do you think the surrounding countries would be like, Syria and of course Iran, as they are now, just words or more ?

It's all a game and if a game were to be likened to it, then that game would be Chess, if you play Chess, you can see it being enacted on the world stage.

But as to these Drone attacks, cool, they eradicate casualties from the attacking side, but how discriminate are they, meaning, in the getting of one man, how many more innocents are also killed, or does that not matter, they under the description of acceptable casualties to the uncaring attacker ?

But be it drones or B52s bombing a country is not the answer, for bombing innocents has the nasty habit of creating more warriors. But then I do believe those that how thought up these ideas have thought of that, and the answer will be cool, more combatants to kill, as anyone who rises against us is an enemy and not people defending their own country and people by doing the same as the attacker, taking the war to the battle front.

Again it might be asked how much of what we suffer is due to what we have caused ?




Politesub53 -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 4:30:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We don't... I'll say it one more time... the people of Afghanistan deserve the government they allow...If this means the Taliban so be it. If they harbor terrorists then we use drones...special forces... and air power to eliminate the threat.

But I'll bet even if they regain power they will not be stupid enough to allow terrorists to ruin their country again.

Butch


Ill say it one more time as well. How do we stop AQ from operating, given that during the last ten years, we have failed to do so ?  Your answer of bombing them to bits has been shown not to work.




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 6:46:40 AM)

And I'll say one more time ...we don't have the right to determine their future...only they do. Using your way of thinking we have failed to stop them by putting our boys and girls at risk on the ground fighting for people that don't want us there so why continue?

Bombing them to bits has been shown to work just fine alone with special forces...certainly as well as occupying soldiers.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 6:59:05 AM)

We have no right to interfere in the business of any country unless they threaten us directly or break agreed treaties or UN resolutions.

I believe we had the right to enter Afghanistan and defend ourselves. We don’t have the right to tell them what form of government they should live under.

Yes that area of the world is important to us but that still does not give us the right to occupy their country. If and when they threaten us again then we will have the right to retaliate if necessary.

It may not be what is best for the western world but it is the right thing to do to keep to our beliefs of the freedom and the right to choose for all.

Butch




DomKen -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 7:09:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

We have no right to interfere in the business of any country unless they threaten us directly or break agreed treaties or UN resolutions.

I believe we had the right to enter Afghanistan and defend ourselves. We don’t have the right to tell them what form of government they should live under.

Yes that area of the world is important to us but that still does not give us the right to occupy their country. If and when they threaten us again then we will have the right to retaliate if necessary.

It may not be what is best for the western world but it is the right thing to do to keep to our beliefs of the freedom and the right to choose for all.

Butch

The Afghan people did not choose the Taliban. The Taliban was created and funded by the ISI, Pakistan's intelligance agency. They invaded and conquered Afghanistan to make it a safe haven for the ISI's unsavory activities.

Making sure the Taliban does not regain control of the country ensures that the ISI is weakened and that they cannot use bases in Afghanistan to train militants for attacks around the world.




kdsub -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 2:11:20 PM)

I don't believe that... People determine the government they will allow... If the people do not join together to stand against the Taliban then they deserve them. We as a nation stand and fought for the government we wanted to live under so should they... We can't and should not do it for them.

Butch




Aneirin -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 4:24:43 PM)

Tell me Butch, did you determine your government that tries to determine the government in other countries ? Because that is what the US government is doing and has done in many parts of the world, and more recently, the latest target, is Libya, for that has fuck all to do with the oppressed citizenry and more to do with the commodity the country has; oil and who controls it, and are they going to be favourable towards America.





Politesub53 -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 4:51:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't believe that... People determine the government they will allow... If the people do not join together to stand against the Taliban then they deserve them. We as a nation stand and fought for the government we wanted to live under so should they... We can't and should not do it for them.

Butch


Mind boggling post on two counts. Firstly that you seem to deny Afghanistans recent history. Secondly that you think Americans alone determined the War Of independence. It is debatable that you would have prevailed without outside help from France. Just like those in Libya would be unlikely to prevail without NATOs help.




DomKen -> RE: Top Pakistani militant Ilyas Kashmiri reported killed in US drone attack (6/5/2011 5:03:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't believe that... People determine the government they will allow... If the people do not join together to stand against the Taliban then they deserve them. We as a nation stand and fought for the government we wanted to live under so should they... We can't and should not do it for them.

Butch

They did stand against the Taliban. Unfortunately the Taliban was supported by the deep pockets of the ISI. They simply had better guns and were willing to slaughter anyone who tried to stand up to them. Even so significant portions of the country were never under the control of the Taliban government.

As to your mythologizing of the US Revolution, please study some history. Find out why Pershing's aide said "Lafayette we are here." in 1917.




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