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RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 10:46:39 AM   
tazzygirl


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With a population of 35,582, you cannot possibly believe no one knew they dated.

And, again, her friends say she had a miscarriage.

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RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 2:35:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

With a population of 35,582, you cannot possibly believe no one knew they dated.

And, again, her friends say she had a miscarriage.


The standard isnt that "anyone knew", it would have to be someone in a position that could result in and actually did harm her for there to be damages.

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RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 2:46:51 PM   
Hillwilliam


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I take back what I said earlier about her not geting a billboard.

Maybe she should take one out with her pic and her fingers held about 2" apart saying:

"An ex boyfriend of mine has a pecker about 2" long and he must be a cowboy because he thinks 8 seconds is a good long ride"

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RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 3:03:58 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

With a population of 35,582, you cannot possibly believe no one knew they dated.

And, again, her friends say she had a miscarriage.


The standard isnt that "anyone knew", it would have to be someone in a position that could result in and actually did harm her for there to be damages.



Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image. It is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).[1]

In common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false,[2][not specific enough to verify] and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images.[3] Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person. "Unlike [with] libel, truth is not a defense for invasion of privacy."[4][not verified in body]

False light laws are "intended primarily to protect the plaintiff's mental or emotional well-being."[5] If a publication of information is false, then a tort of defamation might have occurred. If that communication is not technically false but is still misleading, then a tort of false light might have occurred.[5]

In most civil law jurisdictions, defamation is dealt with as a crime rather than a tort.[6]

A person who destroys another's reputation may be referred to as a famacide, defamer, or slanderer. The Latin phrase famosus libellus means a libelous writing.

.........

How to prove libel
There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, the person first must prove that the statement was false. Second, that person must prove that the statement caused harm.

........

Defences to claims of defamation include:

Statements made in a good faith and reasonable belief that they were true are generally treated the same as true statements; however, the court may inquire into the reasonableness of the belief. The degree of care expected will vary with the nature of the defendant: an ordinary person might safely rely on a single newspaper report, while the newspaper would be expected to carefully check multiple sources.
Opinion is a defense recognized in nearly every jurisdiction. If the allegedly defamatory assertion is an expression of opinion rather than a statement of fact, defamation claims usually cannot be brought because opinions are inherently not falsifiable. However, some jurisdictions decline to recognize any legal distinction between fact and opinion. The United States Supreme Court, in particular, has ruled that the First Amendment does not require recognition of an opinion privilege.[28]
Fair comment on a matter of public interest, arguments made with an honest belief in their soundness on a matter of public interest (such as regarding official acts) are defendable against a defamation claim, even if such arguments are logically unsound; if a reasonable person could honestly entertain such an opinion, the statement is protected.
Consent is an uncommon defense and makes the claim that the claimant consented to the dissemination of the statement.
Innocent dissemination is a defense available when a defendant had no actual knowledge of the defamatory statement or no reason to believe the statement was defamatory. The defense can be defeated if the lack of knowledge was due to negligence. Thus, a delivery service cannot be held liable for delivering a sealed defamatory letter.
Claimant is incapable of further defamation–e.g., the claimant's position in the community is so poor that defamation could not do further damage to the plaintiff. Such a claimant could be said to be "libel-proof", since in most jurisdictions, actual damage is an essential element for a libel claim. Essentially, the defense is that the person had such a bad reputation before the libel, that no further damage could possibly have been caused by the making of the statement.
Statute of limitations. Most jurisdictions require that a lawsuit be brought within a limited period of time. If the alleged libel occurs in a mass media publication such as a newspaper or the Internet, the statute of limitations begins to run at the time of publication, not when the plaintiff first learns of the communication.[29]
No Third-party communication: If an employer were to bring an employee into a sound-proof, isolated room, and accuse him of embezzling company money, the employee would have no defamation recourse, since no one other than the would-be plaintiff and would-be defendant heard the false statement.
No actual injury: If there is third-party communication, but the third-party hearing the defamatory statement does not believe the statement, or does not care, then there is no injury, and therefore, no recourse.
In addition to the above, the defendant may claim that the allegedly defamatory statement is not actually capable of being defamatory—an insulting statement that does not actually harm someone's reputation is prima facie not libelous. Also, the public figure doctrine, also called the absence of malice rule, may be used as a defense.


All she would have to prove is that she had a miscarriage and one person believed she murdered her child to prove harm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Libel



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 3:17:34 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

whether free speech trumps privacy


Poor taste, yes.

Obnoxious, yes.

But free speech.

You get to babble about your ex, even if you're a moron for doing so.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 4:04:26 PM   
pahunkboy


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She has no case. 

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 4:14:45 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


All she would have to prove is that she had a miscarriage and one person believed she murdered her child to prove harm.






No, she has to prove DAMAGES.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:16:52 PM   
tazzygirl


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The Libel or Slander must Harm or Damage the Plaintiff
Where libel is concerned, damages are presumed and the plaintiff need not prove special harm. Special harm is harm to one's reputation that results in monetary losses. If the libelous matter requires proof of additional, or extrinsic, facts for one to understand its defamatory meaning or its reference to the plaintiff, it is called libel per quod, which does require proof of special harm.


Slander generally requires proof of special harm. If the defamatory statement amounts to slander per se, however, the plaintiff is not required to prove special harm; damage is presumed. Slander per se includes statements that the plaintiff engaged in criminal behavior or sexual misconduct or that the plaintiff has a communicable disease. Statements that adversely affect the plaintiff's trade or profession are also slander per se.



Read more at Suite101: The Law of Defamation: Libel or Slander and Causing Harm to Reputation | Suite101.com http://www.suite101.com/content/the-law-of-defamation-a111994#ixzz1Odg3v5Db

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:18:34 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Libel and slander seldom end up with court pay offs. This is the USA.   Not old Europe. 

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:24:34 PM   
Politesub53


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Tazzy, libel is witten, slander is spoken. How can the courts have differing burdens of proof ?

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:26:49 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The Libel or Slander must Harm or Damage the Plaintiff
Where libel is concerned, damages are presumed and the plaintiff need not prove special harm. Special harm is harm to one's reputation that results in monetary losses. If the libelous matter requires proof of additional, or extrinsic, facts for one to understand its defamatory meaning or its reference to the plaintiff, it is called libel per quod, which does require proof of special harm.


Slander generally requires proof of special harm. If the defamatory statement amounts to slander per se, however, the plaintiff is not required to prove special harm; damage is presumed. Slander per se includes statements that the plaintiff engaged in criminal behavior or sexual misconduct or that the plaintiff has a communicable disease. Statements that adversely affect the plaintiff's trade or profession are also slander per se.



Read more at Suite101: The Law of Defamation: Libel or Slander and Causing Harm to Reputation | Suite101.com http://www.suite101.com/content/the-law-of-defamation-a111994#ixzz1Odg3v5Db


Per se libel, where special harm is presumed, still requires proof of the EXTENT of the damages for there to be any substantial award. If she wants to sue and risk an award of $1, she should go for it.

Also most states that recognize per se libel limit it to very specific allegations.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:27:57 PM   
pahunkboy


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I think she was rude to not include the father in this decision. 

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:31:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I think she was rude to not include the father in this decision. 


If it was an unintentional miscarriage there was nothing to include. If it was an abortion I agree.

I'll go beyond rude. It should be illegal for a non-medically necessary abortion after consensual sex to NOT include the input of the father.

But I will defend to the death TG's right to be wrong in her disagreement with that.



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Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:39:56 PM   
eihwaz


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***<Fast Reply>***

Privacy torts, for reference:

  1. Appropriation -- Use of a person's name, likeness or identity for trade or advertising purposes without consent.
  2. Intrusion -- A physical, electronic or mechanical intrusion into someone's private space. This is an information-gathering, not a publication, tort. The legal wrong occurs at the time of the intrusion; no publication is necessary.
  3. Public Disclosure of Embarrassing Private Facts -- Publication of non-newsworthy, private facts about an individual that would be highly offensive to a reasonable person (true defamation)(so intimate that outrage the public's sense of decency).
  4. False light -- Publication of false, highly offensive (but not necessarily defamatory) information about an individual.


(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:41:49 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Per se libel, where special harm is presumed, still requires proof of the EXTENT of the damages for there to be any substantial award. If she wants to sue and risk an award of $1, she should go for it.

Also most states that recognize per se libel limit it to very specific allegations.


Who said she wanted money?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:45:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I think she was rude to not include the father in this decision. 


If it was an unintentional miscarriage there was nothing to include. If it was an abortion I agree.

I'll go beyond rude. It should be illegal for a non-medically necessary abortion after consensual sex to NOT include the input of the father.

But I will defend to the death TG's right to be wrong in her disagreement with that.




lol

Gee willbe, thanks for assuming you know what I would say in respect to that. IF the law required him to be notified, then I would support that. The law does not. Now, the question would be... how to force the woman to tell you who the father is.... its extremely easy to say "I dont know".... then what?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:51:19 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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The guy made his point and should drop the bill board.   At this point- it defeats the purpose. It is not like she can undo the abortion.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 5:52:14 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I think she was rude to not include the father in this decision. 


If it was an unintentional miscarriage there was nothing to include. If it was an abortion I agree.

I'll go beyond rude. It should be illegal for a non-medically necessary abortion after consensual sex to NOT include the input of the father.

But I will defend to the death TG's right to be wrong in her disagreement with that.




lol

Gee willbe, thanks for assuming you know what I would say in respect to that. IF the law required him to be notified, then I would support that. The law does not. Now, the question would be... how to force the woman to tell you who the father is.... its extremely easy to say "I dont know".... then what?


No assumption needed. There was a thread where you made it very clear that you think the father should have no say.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 6:00:23 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
No assumption needed. There was a thread where you made it very clear that you think the father should have no say.


Well, a lot of people seem to be assuming that he is the father. How does anyone know that she wasnt seeing someone else secretly and it wasnt even his? Of course, if that is the case, then she likely wouldnt want her slutting around to be public knowledge and why she didnt tell him she was pregnant. Just another possible scenario of course.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Free Speech vs. Privacy Rights - 6/7/2011 6:01:26 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
No assumption needed. There was a thread where you made it very clear that you think the father should have no say.


Well, a lot of people seem to be assuming that he is the father. How does anyone know that she wasnt seeing someone else secretly and it wasnt even his? Of course, if that is the case, then she likely wouldnt want her slutting around to be public knowledge and why she didnt tell him she was pregnant. Just another possible scenario of course.



Agreed...we were off into hypotheticals at that point.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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Profile   Post #: 60
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