RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 12:23:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: samboct If that were true-we'd have lower taxes. The problem is that folks who dream of being a millionaires worry about the taxes they'd have to pay. There are lots of folks scraping by who think millionaires shouldn't have to pay more taxes- since it sounds like they pay more than they do. It's also the old argument- if a millionaire and you drive down the same road- why should he have to pay more money in taxes to do so? It's the same road. The answer requires a bit of sophistications- the millionaire couldn't have made his/her money without the infrastructures- so that there are a bunch of people who've enabled the millionaire to amass his/her wealth- that's why the millionaire gets to pay more money in taxes. Sam What about the ones who pay LESS than I do? Your claim that people dont want to become millionaires because they would pay more taxes is just a lame assed excuse people use for their own failings, laziness and lack of ambition. Aesop wrote about it in his fable of "The Fox and the Grapes" I dont know your financial situation but I highly doubt there are any millionaires that pay less than you do, unless youre a millionaire also. wilbur, I'm not a millionaire but I have a few friends with a net worth in 7 or 8 figures. Some pay less tax than I do. hell, General Electric with a net worth in the tens of BILLIONS pays less tax than My company. willbeurdaddy did not touch my post (#2 above), Hill. He knows my post has some pretty clear facts regarding that I, who made under $100K this year paid MORE in taxes than General Electric, who made $5.3 Billion in the USA. Also, he did not touch what I suggested doing about the issue as well. Reason is, I believe he's a business man and understands the reason for taxes. He might not agree to what all it pays for, but than, neither do I. If I became a millionaire tommorow (thanks to Powerball....), paying taxes would be the least of my worries. Anyone with real money that wants to keep their wealth, will have sat down with a financial planner by now and developed a plan. Paying taxes is simply an expense of doing business. But rather than sit here, and BS about how multi-millionaires, and large, multi-national corporations are skipping out of paying their full 35%; why not devise rules that eliminate those very loopholes? So that General Electric ends up having to pay a few hundred times what I had to pay. I didnt touch your post because I generally don't read them. You arent worth the effort, which is highlighted in your reposting here. Comparing personal income taxes with corporate taxes is nonsensical. Hill's comparison of personal income taxes to personal income taxes IS relevant, even though he is probably overstating the situation. and we even agree in large part on your last line. Eliminate loopholes/subsidies and lower tax rates and we would all be better off, except tax accountants and lawyers.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 12:23:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway Oh...and Hillwilliam, If I am worth 300 million dollars due to my municipal bond portfolio AND that bond portfolio brings in an income of 20 million, triple tax free, dollars per year, do you have a problem with that? Are you saying there should be no municipal bonds? Do you know what the result of that would be? :) :) :) What I am saying is this. If you make 7 figures a year, the loopholes that can be used to prevent you from paying taxes should be closed. Yes, I know what the implication of taxable minis should be. I also know that with the present rate of return, 300 Mil in munis won't pay 20 mil/year because 10 year AAA rated munis are paying 2.8% as of today. Source. fmsbonds.com . Anyone that would put all their money into munis at that rate deserves to go broke.[:D]

Hillwilliam -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 12:25:09 PM)
Wilbur. I also compared corporate (My company) to corporate (GE)

Musicmystery -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 12:31:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SternSkipper quote: There is nothing stopping them from donating the money. What is the fiscal instrument for that? Just curious. http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html Also, btw....people do pay more than they're required. http://articles.latimes.com/2002/apr/12/business/fi-rup12.10

lockedaway -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 12:53:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark Locked if what they are saying and what you are saying is true, doesn't that defeat the idea of how much money tax cuts will put back into the economy? Isn't that the Rights idea behind being so generous with tax cuts? Isn't the Yellow Brick Road to happiness that they all claim will fix the economic situation? No...I disagree with you. Tax cuts create incentives; incentives to hire, incentives to relocate, incentives to manufacture, incentives to expand. Rich people will usually get richer because money, wisely managed, begets money. If higher taxes are the answer, then a 90% tax bracket would be the super answer, right? (Now some idiot is going to say that back in the 40's and 50's there were much higher tax brackets but we have dispatched that argument on occasions too numerous to mention; the tax code implemented by Reagan wiped out dozens of tax shelter and deductions.) Also...if a 90% tax bracket is the answer, then surely the confiscation of private property [which will happen through inheritance taxes] is also the answer. I would like to know why so many of you are so savagely opposed to the accumulation of wealth. Why do you begrudge guys like Buffett or Gates or even the cardiovascular surgeon down the streets the fruits of their labor? What entitles you to their income?

lockedaway -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 12:59:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway Oh...and Hillwilliam, If I am worth 300 million dollars due to my municipal bond portfolio AND that bond portfolio brings in an income of 20 million, triple tax free, dollars per year, do you have a problem with that? Are you saying there should be no municipal bonds? Do you know what the result of that would be? :) :) :) What I am saying is this. If you make 7 figures a year, the loopholes that can be used to prevent you from paying taxes should be closed. Yes, I know what the implication of taxable minis should be. I also know that with the present rate of return, 300 Mil in munis won't pay 20 mil/year because 10 year AAA rated munis are paying 2.8% as of today. Source. fmsbonds.com . Anyone that would put all their money into munis at that rate deserves to go broke.[:D] I was a bond broker 100 years ago it seems. Back then, NYC general obligation bonds had a coupon of 13% and some were higher. It doesn't matter that a 40 year bond has a rate of 4.5% (especially since I would never advise anyone to go out 40 years). Generally speaking, if you always invest at the top of the market, your portfolio will always be at the top of the market. But the point is that why should someone who is successful be penalized for a corrupt system that mismanages every dime it takes in. You people constantly look to punish success. You should be looking to punish FAILURE. You should be looking to punish nepotism and paybacks. You should be looking to punish pork barrel spending. You should be looking to punish those that refuse to address things like welfare instead of workfare or why we have, essentially, open borders. Don't look to the smart, ambitious guy who makes money and say "good work, fucker...now all the rules that apply to us no longer apply to you. You picked two apples? Now we will take one and leave you only a sliver of the second."

cuckoldmepls -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:00:12 PM)
Boy you sure don't have a clue how a healthy economy works do you? Do you realize how many businesses kept their doors open another month, supplying the materials for this dance floor. You have to include the businesses who cut down the wood, and the businesses who transported the wood first to the lumber mill, and then other businesses who transported the finished product to the lumber yard. It goes on and on. Tax cuts are the best way to keep the economy going, and Bush's economy was the victim of 9/11 when the stock market crashed afterwards, the mortgage crisis that Bush warned Congress about but they refused to act, and the Arabs running up the gas prices to finish our economy off to help Obama win. With democrats in charge, they take your money to hand it out to people who either refuse to work or don't want to work very hard. That basically destroys an economy.

MrRodgers -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:05:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: samboct If that were true-we'd have lower taxes. The problem is that folks who dream of being a millionaires worry about the taxes they'd have to pay. There are lots of folks scraping by who think millionaires shouldn't have to pay more taxes- since it sounds like they pay more than they do. It's also the old argument- if a millionaire and you drive down the same road- why should he have to pay more money in taxes to do so? It's the same road. The answer requires a bit of sophistications- the millionaire couldn't have made his/her money without the infrastructures- so that there are a bunch of people who've enabled the millionaire to amass his/her wealth- that's why the millionaire gets to pay more money in taxes. Sam Yes those great unwashed, they are smart. I mean who would pay $400,000 to take home $600,000 ? I mean, might just as well go flip burgers...right ? It is in the culture people...read it an weep. We have the fundementalism of greed that is capitalism and thus have a plutocracy...govt. of the dollar, by the dollar and for the dollar. There is a much more direct reason the rich should pay more and...a whole lot more. The same principle works for insurance...the more one would have to replace (lose)...the more one pays. You know, that great free market class warfare ? Is that what that is ?

SilverMark -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:09:45 PM)
I don't need nor do I want their money, but if the money isn't put back into the economy and going for Italian sloops and not put into our economy via more jobs, better incomes etc. than the cuts are not doing what the right claims they will do. There has to be more to the econmic growth than just tax cuts for the economy to go forward. The tax cuts in and of themselves will not produce more manufacturing jobs nor will they provide for better paying jobs, unless there is something tied to the tax cuts to encourage those that can expand job growth within our our country. No one wants a 90% tax bracket, that would be a disincentive but, there is no way the Chevrons of the world or the GE's should get back tax refunds and pay zero into the tax cofers while some of us are paying 35-35% of our incomes. http://morallowground.com/2011/03/30/the-moral-high-ground-senator-bernie-sanders-names-shames-americas-top-10-corporate-tax-dodgers/

lockedaway -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:10:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Boy you sure don't have a clue how a healthy economy works do you? Do you realize how many businesses kept their doors open another month, supplying the materials for this dance floor. You have to include the businesses who cut down the wood, and the businesses who transported the wood first to the lumber mill, and then other businesses who transported the finished product to the lumber yard. It goes on and on. Tax cuts are the best way to keep the economy going, and Bush's economy was the victim of 9/11 when the stock market crashed afterwards, the mortgage crisis that Bush warned Congress about but they refused to act, and the Arabs running up the gas prices to finish our economy off to help Obama win. With democrats in charge, they take your money to hand it out to people who either refuse to work or don't want to work very hard. That basically destroys an economy. Ummmmm....are you responding to me? I'm on your side! :)

MrRodgers -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:16:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Boy you sure don't have a clue how a healthy economy works do you? Do you realize how many businesses kept their doors open another month, supplying the materials for this dance floor. You have to include the businesses who cut down the wood, and the businesses who transported the wood first to the lumber mill, and then other businesses who transported the finished product to the lumber yard. It goes on and on. Tax cuts are the best way to keep the economy going, and Bush's economy was the victim of 9/11 when the stock market crashed afterwards, the mortgage crisis that Bush warned Congress about but they refused to act, and the Arabs running up the gas prices to finish our economy off to help Obama win. With democrats in charge, they take your money to hand it out to people who either refuse to work or don't want to work very hard. That basically destroys an economy. A new dance floor for my house is pure pleasure consumption...not investment. Your entire last sentence is unmitigated bullshit and most objective observers know it. If I you think I am wrong, then give us the details...part & parcel of just how it is that the 'dems' (not the repubs) take your money to give it to people who are out of work or refuse to work. The Bush tax cuts reduced receipts from 1040 income from wages, tips and salaries from Clinton;s last FY of $1.04 trillion to $784 billion produced ZERO jobs while it took 4 years just to get back to $1 trillion. Approx. $4-6 trillion in tax cuts resulting in a $12 trillion swing from surplus to deficit...resulted in the worst 2 term record for creation of jobs...on record. The stock market does not create any jobs. It is merely a means of cashing out and getting rich off of our retirement money in the 10,993 mutual funds (out of 11,000) that lost money in 2010.

lockedaway -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:17:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SilverMark I don't need nor do I want their money, but if the money isn't put back into the economy and going for Italian sloops and not put into our economy via more jobs, better incomes etc. than the cuts are not doing what the right claims they will do. There has to be more to the econmic growth than just tax cuts for the economy to go forward. The tax cuts in and of themselves will not produce more manufacturing jobs nor will they provide for better paying jobs, unless there is something tied to the tax cuts to encourage those that can expand job growth within our our country. No one wants a 90% tax bracket, that would be a disincentive but, there is no way the Chevrons of the world or the GE's should get back tax refunds and pay zero into the tax cofers while some of us are paying 35-35% of our incomes. the-moral-high-ground-senator-bernie-sanders-names-shames-americas-top-10-corporate-tax-dodgers The Italian sloop put money back into the economy. I'm sure he was taxed to death on it. No...it didn't put money into the economy in the way you or I would have wished; material suppliers, craftsmen, electronics suppliers, electricians, etc. But are you saying that he shouldn't have the right to buy it??? As far as the GE's of the world, you know Imelt is a liberal skunk, don't you? You know that O'scumbag has appointed him to some dipshit post or panel? I do not favor GE or Chevron or any other company that is doing something dishonest. But taking advantage of deductions that are legal isn't a crime and it isn't unpatriotic either. Having a loss carry forward isn't unpatriotic. Sure, relocating American businesses overseas sucks. But if that business is taxed 35% and a better quality product can be produced overseas because taxes and labor are cheaper and YOU ARE THE CEO of that company, wouldn't you be malfeasant NOT to move abroad? Don't you think you would be removed at the next shareholder's meeting? Look...this is the only salient fact; we have made doing business in the country unattractive for a lot of corporations/individuals, etc. We have to start courting business by giving them incentives or we will have none.

lockedaway -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:21:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Boy you sure don't have a clue how a healthy economy works do you? Do you realize how many businesses kept their doors open another month, supplying the materials for this dance floor. You have to include the businesses who cut down the wood, and the businesses who transported the wood first to the lumber mill, and then other businesses who transported the finished product to the lumber yard. It goes on and on. Tax cuts are the best way to keep the economy going, and Bush's economy was the victim of 9/11 when the stock market crashed afterwards, the mortgage crisis that Bush warned Congress about but they refused to act, and the Arabs running up the gas prices to finish our economy off to help Obama win. With democrats in charge, they take your money to hand it out to people who either refuse to work or don't want to work very hard. That basically destroys an economy. A new dance floor for my house is pure pleasure consumption...not investment. Your entire last sentence is unmitigated bullshit and most objective observers know it. If I you think I am wrong, then give us the details...part & parcel of just how it is that the 'dems' take your money to give it to people who are out of work or refuse to work. You are incorrect. It doesn't matter that the dance floor is for pure pleasure...so is your Porshe. The fact is that the dance floor was made from wood that was probably harvested, cut and shipped in this country. It was installed by, probably, an American carpenter or contractor. Simply because you aren't allowed to dance on it doesn't mean it didn't put money into the economy. How does the democrat party take money and redistribute it? Are you serious? What was/is welfare? What is it when you pay a welfare recipient more money for every illegitimate kids she pumps out? What is it when you expand medicare for people who are not retired? What is it when illegal aliens get free emergency room services that are paid ultimately by the tax payer?

MrRodgers -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 1:39:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Boy you sure don't have a clue how a healthy economy works do you? Do you realize how many businesses kept their doors open another month, supplying the materials for this dance floor. You have to include the businesses who cut down the wood, and the businesses who transported the wood first to the lumber mill, and then other businesses who transported the finished product to the lumber yard. It goes on and on. Tax cuts are the best way to keep the economy going, and Bush's economy was the victim of 9/11 when the stock market crashed afterwards, the mortgage crisis that Bush warned Congress about but they refused to act, and the Arabs running up the gas prices to finish our economy off to help Obama win. With democrats in charge, they take your money to hand it out to people who either refuse to work or don't want to work very hard. That basically destroys an economy. A new dance floor for my house is pure pleasure consumption...not investment. Your entire last sentence is unmitigated bullshit and most objective observers know it. If I you think I am wrong, then give us the details...part & parcel of just how it is that the 'dems' take your money to give it to people who are out of work or refuse to work. You are incorrect. It doesn't matter that the dance floor is for pure pleasure...so is your Porshe. The fact is that the dance floor was made from wood that was probably harvested, cut and shipped in this country. It was installed by, probably, an American carpenter or contractor. Simply because you aren't allowed to dance on it doesn't mean it didn't put money into the economy. How does the democrat party take money and redistribute it? Are you serious? What was/is welfare? What is it when you pay a welfare recipient more money for every illegitimate kids she pumps out? What is it when you expand medicare for people who are not retired? What is it when illegal aliens get free emergency room services that are paid ultimately by the tax payer? Where do I begin ? A single dance floor is the kind of job creation that has 10-15 million out of work. It is so infinitesimally small you make me laugh. Funny how we can't balance the budget by taxing the rich but we can create say 2-4 million jobs short-term building new dance floors and buying Italian yachts. Welfare for all of the lies and by comparison has been one of the single steadiest bipartisan survivors of the post-war era. Furthermore, the US govt. pays $20 billion a year to approx. 700,000 qualifying farmers, while having never paid anymore than $15 billion on 4-5 million families ? Taxpayers currently pay $6 billion to a mere handful of ethanol producers in direct cash payouts same as agriculture. Over the ENTIRE history of AFDC (commonly known as welfare known as Aid to Families with dependent children) the system has paid out approx. $500 Billion...TARP alone in one fell swoop...$700 billion. We have socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor. America's version of capitalism no longer has any clothes. We are the world's center for the hedonism of the rich...ROME.

SilverMark -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 2:06:25 PM)
http://www.newsmeat.com/ceo_political_donations/Jeffrey_Immelt.php I'd say Mr Imelt plays both sides against the middle....funny thing, I see no donations to Obama http://www.campaignmoney.com/general_electric.asp

mnottertail -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 2:09:02 PM)
FR: 2 guys can lay up 1200 feet a day of flooring. Sprung wood floorings (used for dance floors) are going to be either Maple, Ash or Birch, and likely coming out of Canada. So, businessmen and financial wizards and policy analysts you are not. About like the number of folks employed or profiting when Ken Lay bought his 10000 dollar elephant foot umbrella stand.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 2:11:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam [What I am saying is this. If you make 7 figures a year, the loopholes that can be used to prevent you from paying taxes should be closed. There are very few loopholes left on personal income taxes. Most are Obama pets like energy credits etc, and those dont go very far. The biggest "loophole" is the capital gains rate, and that should be lowered, not raised to ordinary income limits. It worked for Clinton!

Hillwilliam -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 2:33:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Boy you sure don't have a clue how a healthy economy works do you? Do you realize how many businesses kept their doors open another month, supplying the materials for this dance floor. You have to include the businesses who cut down the wood, and the businesses who transported the wood first to the lumber mill, and then other businesses who transported the finished product to the lumber yard. It goes on and on. Tax cuts are the best way to keep the economy going, and Bush's economy was the victim of 9/11 when the stock market crashed afterwards, the mortgage crisis that Bush warned Congress about but they refused to act, and the Arabs running up the gas prices to finish our economy off to help Obama win. With democrats in charge, they take your money to hand it out to people who either refuse to work or don't want to work very hard. That basically destroys an economy. Oh ignorant cuckyboy. The sloop was built in fucking ITALY. ZERO money for the American worker.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 2:40:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway Oh...and Hillwilliam, If I am worth 300 million dollars due to my municipal bond portfolio AND that bond portfolio brings in an income of 20 million, triple tax free, dollars per year, do you have a problem with that? Are you saying there should be no municipal bonds? Do you know what the result of that would be? :) :) :) What I am saying is this. If you make 7 figures a year, the loopholes that can be used to prevent you from paying taxes should be closed. Yes, I know what the implication of taxable minis should be. I also know that with the present rate of return, 300 Mil in munis won't pay 20 mil/year because 10 year AAA rated munis are paying 2.8% as of today. Source. fmsbonds.com . Anyone that would put all their money into munis at that rate deserves to go broke.[:D] I was a bond broker 100 years ago it seems. Back then, NYC general obligation bonds had a coupon of 13% and some were higher. It doesn't matter that a 40 year bond has a rate of 4.5% (especially since I would never advise anyone to go out 40 years). Generally speaking, if you always invest at the top of the market, your portfolio will always be at the top of the market. But the point is that why should someone who is successful be penalized for a corrupt system that mismanages every dime it takes in. You people constantly look to punish success. You should be looking to punish FAILURE. You should be looking to punish nepotism and paybacks. You should be looking to punish pork barrel spending. You should be looking to punish those that refuse to address things like welfare instead of workfare or why we have, essentially, open borders. Don't look to the smart, ambitious guy who makes money and say "good work, fucker...now all the rules that apply to us no longer apply to you. You picked two apples? Now we will take one and leave you only a sliver of the second." Those who are investing megabucks in the bond market or whatever market are the ones who CREATED the system of nepotism and paybacks. Most of the folks saying "good work, fucker...now all the rules that apply to us no longer apply to you" were born to it. They didn't earn it on their own. This is totally unscientific and I don't have time to dig up all the links but I have a feeling that if you looked REALLY hard, you would find that the "old money" favors the Bush tax breaks and loopholes and the 'nouveau riche' are more on the Dem side. You might have missed My earlier comment that we have "The best congress money can buy". By the way, that goes for both parties.

mnottertail -> RE: Patriotic Millionaires Describe What Theyve Done With Their Bush Tax Cuts: I Built A Dance Floor (6/7/2011 2:44:00 PM)
FYI borrow and spenders: Italy has government healthcare, no? Second best in the world behind France. Indidvidual tax rates 23-43%. Corporate tax and capital gains 27.5%, and they pay 30% of workers wages into social security over and above, and so on.

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