RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis

RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:27:35 PM)
quote: quote: Let's look at a few facts, shall we? very little production to support an economy Ummm.....try a $15 trillion GDP, one-fifth of the world's economy.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:28:54 PM)
The economy isn't getting better because Republicans in the House and Senate don't want it to. They got elected by promising jobs, then became the party of no jobs when they voted against all the jobs bills.

imperatrixx -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:29:20 PM)
Strangely enough, seeing this makes me want to vote super liberal in the next election. Like...green or socialist. Seriously. Support for labor so the nation can start producing again rather than outsourcing the backbone of our economy. Support for the teachers, increasing their salary enough that the profession will attract intelligent and capable young minds. Support for clean energy to reduce our imports and dependence on oil. Reform to stop corporations from paying Washington to send our young men and women to do their dirty work in whatever country they want to make a profit in next. No, this house of cards wasn't built in 2008. The last thing I want is to vote in someone who looks back in conservation instead of forward in progress.

provfivetine -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: In the last three years the government has spent staggering amounts of money and the Federal Reserve is taking on staggering amounts of debt. "When the problems arise next time…what are they going to do? They can’t quadruple the debt again. They cannot print that much more money. Idiocy. The Federal Reserve isn't taking on any debt. The U.S. Treasury is the one borrowing. In fact, the U.S. "owes" the Fed around $8 trillion. Nor did the debt quadruple in the last three years--it quadrupled in the Reagan years. And the Fed doesn't print money to cover deficits, nor does it print money to cover money supply changes (that's not how money creation works). Covering the deficit is the Treasury's problem, which it solves by borrowing through the sale of Treasury securities. Complete confusion of fiscal with monetary agencies. Quite a lofty charge to level against Mr. Rogers. I don't suppose that you've made hundreds of millions with your financial savviness and your proven ability to forecast market conditions? You're correct in noting that the debt increased under Reagan, but you're just drinking the Obama kool-aid if you don't notice the massive debt that he has brought. Also, who is going to buy these T-Bills? China is already diversifying away. Japan just had a cataclysmic disaster and can't. The only one left in the future will be Uncle Ben. You're right, the FED isn't taking on any debt, it's just monetizing the debt. The US owing the FED money is analogous to saying that you owe yourself money. The FED bought up trillions of dollars of worthless assets from financial institutions that no one would touch; everything on its balance sheet is toxic. You're missing Rogers' entire point. How do you suppose that the FED unwinds? If you can answer this question, then join Obama's team and save our economy.

juliaoceania -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:29:54 PM)
You know what, provfivtine the question (who actually posts intelligently on the topic), not you... I wouldn't ask you how to balance my weekly grocery budget, much less about what we should do as a country about our economic system

lockedaway -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:30:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway Oh...it isn't my victory. I'm just in a slightly better position to endure it than the morons that elected our asshole president. That's all. :) As soon as you heard that swine tell the "Joe the Plumber" guy that he was happy that "Joe" was making money but that he wanted to spread it around....well.....you should have known better. Anyone that confiscates the rightfully earned wealth of another is a f*king thief and now the master thief the liberals have elected has stolen their future. So you don't believe in any income taxes? FWIW I didn't vote for him. That doesn't mean I'm going to greet news of impending financial collapse with laughter. Your disregard for the health of the nation is disturbing. quote:* Let's look at a few facts, shall we? He had incurred more debt than any president that has preceded him. Our real estate values are dropping, on average, 1% per month (that is a free fall, btw), our debt is passing our GDP, our unemployment rate has not been this high or this sustained since the Great Depression, he has passed ENORMOUS tax legislation in the form of ObamaCare and next will be Cap and Trade if he has his way. No babies....there IS no turning it around. We also have failing schools, decaying cities, very little production to support an economy, growing class divides...the country is in very poor shape, and that's been building up for quite awhile. Like I said, I hope it turns around. I wish people were more patriotic. It makes no sense to love an idealized picture of "America" while despising the nation herself and laughing as she grows sick. No sense of pride, there. Oh...I believe in a fair tax. Sure, everyone should have to pay taxes. I believe in closed borders. I believe in lower the corporate tax rates so that we can court business and manufacturing to come back to this country. I am for the deportation of illegal aliens. I am for a Federal Sales Tax. There should be no such thing as a government pension. The pension system is dead and what should be offered is matching 401k's up to $1,000.00 per month. There should be no collective bargaining on ANY ISSUE except wages. Yeah, dear, there is a lot we could have done, should have done but we didn't fucking do it!!! No...we allowed a piece of garbage by the name of Lyndon Baines Johnson to declare a war on poverty and we have been RACING headlong into poverty ever since. Then along comes this piece of shit...Barrack O'scumbag....who is even more dangerous (in some ways) than Johnson. Americans are stupid. We are some of the dumbest sonsofbitches in the world. We (not me...you libs) fell for a carnival barker and elected him president. Now it is fast becoming time to pay the piper.

Musicmystery -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:33:00 PM)
quote: Also, who is going to buy these T-Bills? U.S. citizens hold the majority of the debt. The EU is next. Then China and Japan. quote: Quite a lofty charge to level against Mr. Rogers. It's not financial analysis on my part here. He offers a string of factually incorrect statements, and extrapolates predictions from those erroneous premises. If that works for you, I've several things to sell you. Come on by.

provfivetine -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:34:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania What is your opinion on the subject? What should we do? Liquidate all the malinvestment. No more bailouts. PERIOD. Let the banksters go bankrupt. Repeal the legal tender laws. Stop bailing out corporations and subsidizing them. Bring the troops home from the 150 countries we have them in. This is just a start :)

Hillwilliam -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:34:31 PM)
Unfortunately, it seems both parties would rather destroy the country than let the other guys have a "victory".

imperatrixx -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:35:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: quote: Let's look at a few facts, shall we? very little production to support an economy Ummm.....try a $15 trillion GDP, one-fifth of the world's economy. http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2007/04/manufacturing-vs-services-as-of-gdp.html Project those lines if it continues along the same path.

Musicmystery -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:37:16 PM)
An anonymous rant on a blog?

lockedaway -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:38:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx Strangely enough, seeing this makes me want to vote super liberal in the next election. Like...green or socialist. Seriously. Support for labor so the nation can start producing again rather than outsourcing the backbone of our economy. Support for the teachers, increasing their salary enough that the profession will attract intelligent and capable young minds. Support for clean energy to reduce our imports and dependence on oil. Reform to stop corporations from paying Washington to send our young men and women to do their dirty work in whatever country they want to make a profit in next. No, this house of cards wasn't built in 2008. The last thing I want is to vote in someone who looks back in conservation instead of forward in progress. Brilliant!!!! See what I mean when I say Americans are stupid? You elected a President that has helped RUIN you. The next year will be a raw catastrophe and every leading economist says so. And YOU...genius that you are....want to vote more liberal. Well let me tell you something, bright girl, we aren't getting away from fossil fuel in YOUR LIFETIME. Sure...invent this, tinker with that and it's all good. But 50 years from now, oil, coal and natural gas will still be the fuels that are predominantly running this planet...unless we entirely gunk the planet up with nuclear. Raising salaries for our teachers? Our education system is ranked....what? 36th in the world? Education in the U.S. is a fucking joke. We don't teach math or science or civics, we teach that the Prince has Two Daddy's and that there are more genders in the world than simply male and female. Oh yeah, baby, let's raise those salaries. Let's tax more and raise those salaries. Brilliant. Oh...and I guess you would like for more principals and vice principals and super intendents and administrative assistants and assistants for those assistants to be hired too. All with big fat pensions paid for by the tax payer. Yeah...fucking brilliant.

imperatrixx -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:39:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery An anonymous rant on a blog? Do you think the graph is inaccurate?

Musicmystery -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:40:07 PM)
It's a speculation based on an 'if."

Termyn8or -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:41:08 PM)
"Ummm.....try a $15 trillion GDP, one-fifth of the world's economy." "Increased production XX% between 19XX and 19XX, and then increased prduction XX% from 19XX to 19XX" And failed. We cannot increase production. They could. What you think the odds are ? The cold war is not over. There are just new palyers. T^T

Musicmystery -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:42:06 PM)
What in the world are you talking about?

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:51:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imperatrixx Strangely enough, seeing this makes me want to vote super liberal in the next election. Like...green or socialist. Seriously. Support for labor so the nation can start producing again rather than outsourcing the backbone of our economy. Support for the teachers, increasing their salary enough that the profession will attract intelligent and capable young minds. Support for clean energy to reduce our imports and dependence on oil. Reform to stop corporations from paying Washington to send our young men and women to do their dirty work in whatever country they want to make a profit in next. No, this house of cards wasn't built in 2008. The last thing I want is to vote in someone who looks back in conservation instead of forward in progress. Liberal is definitely the way to go. Both parties have made mistakes, but at least Democrats didn't get elected by promising jobs, then vote against bills to create jobs and bring jobs back to the US. Republicans in the House and Senate are fighting to keep the economy from improving hoping everyone will blame Obama.

provfivetine -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:52:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Also, who is going to buy these T-Bills? U.S. citizens hold the majority of the debt. The EU is next. Then China and Japan. quote: Quite a lofty charge to level against Mr. Rogers. It's not financial analysis on my part here. He offers a string of factually incorrect statements, and extrapolates predictions from those erroneous premises. If that works for you, I've several things to sell you. Come on by. Individual Americans aren't lining up to buy US T-Bills. Bill Gross, for example, the largest private buyer isn't buying any more. It's the FED that is buying them, that's the troubling part! Furthermore, how is the FED going to unwind? You didn't answer this. Also, what factually incorrect statements is Rogers asserting? Are you denying that the monetary base is increasing? [image]http://www.woodpilereport.com/photos/chart-2011-fed-monetary-base.gif[/image] Can you guess where QE1 and QE2 were started? If you have agriculture futures contracts, foreign mutual funds, RMB, Swiss Franc, New Zealand dollars, Australian dollars, or silver to sell me, then I'd love to take them off your hands!

imperatrixx -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:53:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway Brilliant!!!! See what I mean when I say Americans are stupid? You elected a President that has helped RUIN you. The next year will be a raw catastrophe and every leading economist says so. And YOU...genius that you are....want to vote more liberal. I think you missed the part where I said that I didn't vote for him. Yes, I do think we should vote more liberal, because what we have now is outdated and decaying. The world is moving on - the corruption, lack of regulation, lack of social responsibility, and exponential divide between salaries of rich and poor is something found today in developing nations, not the first world. It's Mexico, not Canada. quote: Well let me tell you something, bright girl, we aren't getting away from fossil fuel in YOUR LIFETIME. Sure...invent this, tinker with that and it's all good. But 50 years from now, oil, coal and natural gas will still be the fuels that are predominantly running this planet...unless we entirely gunk the planet up with nuclear. 50 years from now India and China will have far more need for oil than we should. quote: Raising salaries for our teachers? Our education system is ranked....what? 36th in the world? Education in the U.S. is a fucking joke. We don't teach math or science or civics, we teach that the Prince has Two Daddy's and that there are more genders in the world than simply male and female. Oh yeah, baby, let's raise those salaries. Let's tax more and raise those salaries. Brilliant. Oh...and I guess you would like for more principals and vice principals and super intendents and administrative assistants and assistants for those assistants to be hired too. All with big fat pensions paid for by the tax payer. Yeah...fucking brilliant. No, mostly just teachers. I think most people would agree that the quality of the nation's education has fallen within the past 50-60 years. Allow me to suggest one significant factor in this - the womens' movement. 50 years ago, women had very limited career opportunities. They could be teachers, secretaries, flight attendants, nurses, shopgirls, or work in factories...I'm sure there were a few more options, but that's about the gist of it. So the most intelligent women in the workforce gravitated toward teaching and nursing, as the rest required less education and more opportunities for sexual harassment. The world is different today - the most intelligent women now are bankers, lawyers, brokers, diplomats...teaching is a low paid, low status job, especially in poor neighborhoods. I mean, it's simple economics. In every graduating class, there will be the top 5% and the bottom 5%. The top 5% get the jobs in wealthy suburbs and private schools, and the bottom 5% get the public schools in poor districts. So how on earth do you think that offering less salary and less benefits will entice brighter minds to take these jobs?

imperatrixx -> RE: Jim Rogers: US nearing worse financial crisis (6/8/2011 10:55:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It's a speculation based on an 'if." The graph itself only goes up to 2006, so that is not speculation. I was merely pointing out that my statement that production has fallen and your statement that our GDP is high are not incompatible. You're right that the conclusions we draw based on that data are speculation.

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