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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/10/2011 3:11:06 PM   
analyticalmaster


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Lets see, first of all your 19, sorry but this means you dont have a clue as yet, then you are a switch.  I may be wrong, but I think I am interpreting this as you have no idea how to get some girl to top you and maybe no way to understand how to get someone to top either.  So you are thinking maybe someone else who owns a switch or a sub will lend them to you.   Isn't going to happen.   This is what is called paying your dues, while there are some Tops out there who might could use you for some humiliation play, I wouldnt trust them simply because they choose to use you.  While technically you are an adult, most serious people in the life understand that you really are not in a place in your own head yet to give true consent.  So I would suggest for one thing, play with people your own age.  There are groups for your age group, take advantage of them and be grateful, most of us were not that fortunate.   Dont troll in any fashion for another's  submissives.  You will fail and end up just being embarrassed.  Your attempt could even cause some submissive somewhere problems she doesn't deserve simply because you tried to push an issue.

Very few if any owned submissives want to hear directly for males they do not know personally.  For the rare one who's Master might let them talk to you, assuming they even wanted to, you would write him and ask permission politely.  The only acceptable way to talk to another's submissive is either on a forum list, where conversation is remote and about a topic, or at a social event with the sub's Master present and with his permission.   Now I would like to address the switch part,  and this really is a "sucks to be you" comment.  While it may not seem like it when you look online, Dominants are in short supply, not submissives.  Yes there are a boatload of "yes I am Gods personal Representative, bow to me bitch" profiles online, most are utter frauds.  But you are primarily hetro, I think, I didnt really read your whole profile, just a quick glance.  There is no rarer being in this world that the female Dom.  While I am sure there are some who would enjoy a boy to play with, most of them would not waste their time.  Unless there is something simply special about you to peak their interest.  Of course I could be wrong, I dont even play the role of a female Dom. 

My advise is simple, yes biologically you are about to bust, find some girl, experiment in simple ways, attend munches, attend play parties if allowed, we tend to hold to 21 for that sort of thing in our area.  Get to know the other people in your area that are near your age and simply be for right now.   

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/10/2011 3:20:59 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: analyticalmaster
Very few if any owned submissives want to hear directly for males they do not know personally.  For the rare one who's Master might let them talk to you, assuming they even wanted to, you would write him and ask permission politely. 

Really? that isn't my [admittedly very limited] experience at all. I see such behavior commonly online. But out in the real world I've never actually seen a slave I couldn't talk to normally. Carol has no particular feeling about a stranger's gender when they talk to her. When I go to MAST meetings, I talk to people, men and women alike, as I would anyone else. It's never occurred to me to limit who Carol can talk to and it obviously doesn't occur to a lot of other masters.

In other words, the type of insecurity your talking about doesn't seem common in my experience. I have generally seen well-adjusted and poised adults handling basic life tasks like "talking" without a whole lot of melodrama.


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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/10/2011 6:48:38 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


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OK, just a few points to cover what's been said up to analyticalmaster's post, which I'll reply to more in depth.
1. Poaching/poachers. Please! Give me a break. As if any of you could even tempt me to leave the woman I love. I would find it insulting if Hanners distrusted me so much she wouldn't allow me to speak with whoever I wanted to speak to. I know I'm not going anywhere and so does Hanners.
2. There's no point/no profit. Excuser moi? No profit? What about friendly conversation? Interesting exchanges of ideas? Does a sub cease to be a human being just because he/she is owned?

Now to the meat....<Deep breath...remember; be nice girl>
There is quite a bit of what I consider good advice, unfortunately its tied up i n a whole lot of what I consider really condescending, verging on insulting ideas, and some just plain bizarre ideas.

quote:

Lets see, first of all your 19, sorry but this means you dont have a clue as yet
Not necessarily, you just might be surprised how clued in some people my age really are. we're not all morons.
quote:

While technically you are an adult, most serious people in the life understand that you really are not in a place in your own head yet to give true consent
. But he's apparently in a place in his own head to give true consent to go fight and possibly die in the middle east for you. Don't you see just how insulting you are being here?

quote:

Very few if any owned submissives want to hear directly for males they do not know personally.
I have yet to encounter any such. No that's not true, I do know a few who don't want to speak with men period, and some are owned and some not, but they are all lesbians. the straight and bi subs i have encountered or spoken with don't express that point of view to me. they could be withholding that information, but I don't think so as they would have no reason to.

quote:

For the rare one who's Master might let them talk to you, assuming they even wanted to, you would write him and ask permission politely.  The only acceptable way to talk to another's submissive is either on a forum list, where conversation is remote and about a topic, or at a social event with the sub's Master present and with his permission.
The first sentence? Totally non-applicable to me and Hanners. Why on earth would she want a bunch of people nagging at her "Can I talk to Heather?". I know what her answer would be: "How the fuck should I know dickhead, why don't you ask her." Sounds  I mean in all honesty how is she supposed to know if I will enjoy talking to somebody or not. As to the second part, why on earth would she want to tie herself to me in a social situation, why would she want to listen in on every conversation I have?

In all honesty this approach to a sub/slave communicating smacks of deep insecurity and a very low opinion of the sub/slaves ethics, intelligence and morals. As I said in the response above regarding poachers, there isn't anybody here who can even tempt me when it comes to the idea of leaving Hanners.

Sure, I can hear it now: ...but your a lesbian so talking with males isn't the same as for a straight sub. well I talk with women almost exclusively on here. One a lesbian Domme. I exchange several messages with each every day. We joke and we flirt and we share some stories and silliness. Its fun. Am i tempted? Yes, tempted to try some group play/sex with her and her g/f and me and Hanners. I bet that would be some a seriously good time for all concerned. I even have a vanilla g/f i am slowly corrupting, and a best friend who plays with us now and then. I find myself asking why anybody would want a sub/slave that they couldn't trust to remain loyal unless they were under direct supervision.

Your whole section on switches is incredibly belittling. As the slave of a lesbian switch I find it downright insulting  <and really wish Hanners could post right now.>. I don't see what the shortage of Dommes has to do with him playing. He's also looking for submissive women, so it seems to me that by playing both sides of the fence would increase his chances of success.

So yes, I also recommend looking primarily for people around your age to play with, Not because your a young switch and therefore have no idea what you want, quite the opposite. because you'll be less likely to run into this sort of condescending insecure zenanizing* attitude, and will end up having a lot more fun with a lot more people with a lot less useless pontificating and moralizing.

* I needed a cool word to say "put in a harem" so extrapolated one from zenana, which is a Muslim Indian Institution  very simiplay to the harem or serglio

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/10/2011 7:40:18 PM   
BurntKitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

<snip>OK, just a few points to cover what's been said up to analyticalmaster's post.....



Excellent rebuttal! You must have been on the debate team.

OP- Read Heather's posts. Wise beyond her years....

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 12:27:32 AM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather=
2. There's no point/no profit. Excuser moi? No profit? What about friendly conversation? Interesting exchanges of ideas? Does a sub cease to be a human being just because he/she is owned?
  I must confess a good deal of amusement at this.  No, she ceases to be relevant to a neophyte who wants to learn and gain the opportunity to explore.  An owned sub or slave is necessarily constrained in her responses and he's better off speaking with an unowned sub who does have the time and freedom to respond naturally as opposed to an owned sub who just wants another man around to flatter her ego.

A man who doesn't treat his time as valuable can be sure that women will do likewise.


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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 2:08:18 AM   
MrHCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: analyticalmaster

Lets see, first of all your 19, sorry but this means you dont have a clue as yet, then you are a switch.


Ooh, sorry. Swing and a miss, good sir. It's nice to see that, no matter where on the Internet I go, I'll still be able to find idiots who believe that age matters.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 2:39:58 AM   
LadyPact


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MrH, there is something of a cultural difference on the age matter on this side of the pond.  One place that I will give credit on one of the prior responses is that, in certain places in this country, a kinky person of age nineteen may have their options limited regarding what munches/events they can attend.  A number of groups here are still for those twenty-one and up.  Many of the TNG groups are eighteen and up, but they aren't in all locations.  I'd say that 75% of the munch groups that I'm still on their mailing list after moving around over the years are still twenty-one and up. 

The switch subject?  Yes, there are folks out there who won't play with switches, just like there are folks who won't play with bisexuals, or any other thing that doesn't fit the criteria of what they feel they are looking for.  Kind of interesting stuff to read around here, if you're ever interested. 

OP, a lot of folks answered on this thread that it can potentially cause an issue if you are contacting folks who already have a Dominant in their life.  Usually because it conveys that you aren't respecting the dynamic that they are already in.  People always want to try to pass this off as a person being 'insecure' or some such thing, but I can promise you that I know a good number of non kinky married couples where, if you want to talk to the husband, you'd better talk to the wife first.  (Live in the South of the USA for a while and you'll see it pretty often.)  If they have anything in their profile about contact restrictions, just plain don't.  If nothing is listed and you're not being dubious, do the polite thing and send regards to their Owner.  This acknowledges that you are aware of their dynamic and aren't trying to pull something underhanded.


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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 3:12:15 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Very few if any owned submissives want to hear directly for males they do not know personally.
I have yet to encounter any such. No that's not true, I do know a few who don't want to speak with men period, and some are owned and some not, but they are all lesbians. the straight and bi subs i have encountered or spoken with don't express that point of view to me. they could be withholding that information, but I don't think so as they would have no reason to.


You know how I read that? I read that as 'all the owned women I've approached have used their status as an excuse not to talk to me'. Your experience might be that they don't want to hear from you, analyticalmaster, but that's certainly not universal.

And for Awareness, as to the value of your time as a neophyte, I've got one word: networking. Owned submissive women have unowned submissive friends (as well as dominant and submissive friends with particular skill sets to learn from - useful for a neophyte - and dominant friends who might be looking - also important for a switch like the OP, maybe.) Talking to everyone maximises your chance of getting that crucial introduction that'll change your dating landscape.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 3:17:59 AM   
sunshinemiss


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Heather,
Well said.
sunshine

To analytical,
You may wish to gather a bit more data.

best,
sunshine


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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 4:08:36 AM   
MrHCurious


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quote:

MrH, there is something of a cultural difference on the age matter on this side of the pond.  One place that I will give credit on one of the prior responses is that, in certain places in this country, a kinky person of age nineteen may have their options limited regarding what munches/events they can attend.  A number of groups here are still for those twenty-one and up.  Many of the TNG groups are eighteen and up, but they aren't in all locations.  I'd say that 75% of the munch groups that I'm still on their mailing list after moving around over the years are still twenty-one and up.


Ah, I see. I've sspent most of my time on British-centric boards, that didn't occur to me. I still think he's a complete idiot for such an off-hand dismissal. Unrelated:

quote:

Talking to everyone maximises your chance of getting that crucial introduction that'll change your dating landscape.


This. This is worth seriously considering and I have the experiences to back that up. If I'd gone in with the mindset that the only people worth talking to were submissive or switchy women because they were the only ones I'd get anything out of, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have the relationship I do because the vague one - a dominant lesbian - played rather an important part in making it happen. If that's not convincing you, consider the flipside; what's the worst that could happen if you try to talk to everybody? You have some bad conversations? Oh noes that would be truly terrible I'm sure.


< Message edited by MrHCurious -- 6/11/2011 4:19:34 AM >

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 4:40:53 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrHCurious

Ah, I see. I've sspent most of my time on British-centric boards, that didn't occur to me. I still think he's a complete idiot for such an off-hand dismissal.


It takes a little while to acclimate to the rampant stupidity on CM forums, but once you have, you'll find them an endless source of hearty belly laughs.

Just avoid taking anything seriously, most especially the Politics & Religion forums, which are the last bastion of the tinfoil hat brigade, and where extremists of all stripes clump together for warmth and self-validation. When it comes to “Dominants”, generally the more experience the pompous profess to, the more self-aggrandising their names and titles, then the less actual knowledge they've accrued, and I've a sneaky suspicion that many of the most "Domly" have never seen a woman naked, much less touched one.

There are a tiny number of genuinely knowledgeable people, Dom and sub – I could count them using only my fingers, and their quiet learnedness is self-evident – there’s lots to be learned, from both sides of the divide. There’s also a medium-sized cohort of folk who are simply very pleasant human beings, and again they’ll make themselves known by their generally kind words and patient, understanding natures.

The rest are as complete a dictionary definition of “the clueless unwashed” or (in deference to our colonial cousins) “sub-normal asshats” as you could hope to encounter, but their statements are often hugely amusing, as I’ve said, but only once you've stopped trying to bash understanding into their thick skulls with a 5Lb lump-hammer, and instead merely stood back and enjoyed. Think of it as the best train crash you've ever witnessed, ruined anew for your personal delectation, each and every morning.

I don't have much time to read CM anymore, on account of having a life, but whenever I do it never fails to raise at least 3 minor chuckles (call them centi-chuckles, as a scale) and 1 genuine guffaw. Just be clear with yourself though; you can't fix stupid. Oh, and never try to correct a clique once it’s started “piling-on” – it’s like trying to stop a shiver of sharks from digesting a dead dolphin.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 4:44:47 AM   
MrHCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

It takes a little while to acclimate to the rampant stupidity on CM forums, but once you have, you'll find them an endless source of hearty belly laughs.

Just avoid taking anything seriously, most especially the Politics & Religion forums, which are the last bastion of the tinfoil hat brigade, and where extremists of all stripes clump together for warmth and self-validation. When it comes to “Dominants”, generally the more experience the pompous profess to, the more self-aggrandising their names and titles, then the less actual knowledge they've accrued, and I've a sneaky suspicion that many of the most "Domly" have never seen a woman naked, much less touched one.

There are a tiny number of genuinely knowledgeable people, Dom and sub – I could count them using only my fingers, and their quiet learnedness is self-evident – there’s lots to be learned, from both sides of the divide. There’s also a medium-sized cohort of folk who are simply very pleasant human beings, and again they’ll make themselves known by their generally kind words and patient, understanding natures.

The rest are as complete a dictionary definition of “the clueless unwashed” or (in deference to our colonial cousins) “sub-normal asshats” as you could hope to encounter, but their statements are often hugely amusing, as I’ve said, but only once you've stopped trying to bash understanding into their thick skulls with a 5Lb lump-hammer, and instead merely stood back and enjoyed. Think of it as the best train crash you've ever witnessed, ruined anew for your personal delectation, each and every morning.

I don't have much time to read CM anymore, on account of having a life, but whenever I do it never fails to raise at least 3 minor chuckles (call them centi-chuckles, as a scale) and 1 genuine guffaw. Just be clear with yourself though; you can't fix stupid. Oh, and never try to correct a clique once it’s started “piling-on” – it’s like trying to stop a shiver of sharks from digesting a dead dolphin.


I like you, you seem smart. And I remember having to interact regularly with one particularly odious dominant-type with a commensurately ridiculous title (if I remember properly, he tried to get people to refer to him as 'Viscount'. VISCOUNT) who had plenty of opinions about everything under the sun and next to no knowledge. Needling him was tremendous fun.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 4:45:59 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrHCurious

I like you, you seem smart.


I can assure you I am not.

"Mildly diverting", however, I will admit to.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 4:51:59 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

"Mildly diverting", however, I will admit to.


And sweet and cuddly, and all that jazz. It's funny - that one U35 midweek you came to with RCdc was, like, the only one in recent history that MrHC missed. If it'd been the one after or the one before I might have introduced you.

Small world.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 4:54:15 AM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrHCurious

And I remember having to interact regularly with one particularly odious dominant-type with a commensurately ridiculous title (if I remember properly, he tried to get people to refer to him as 'Viscount'. VISCOUNT)


See now, to me, that conjures images of a delicious, minty, biscuit. Which I doubt is what the originator had in mind.

You'll spot the more laughable ones as you go along - generally, the inclusion in a name of any of the words "Master", "Lord", "Duke" or similar, is a major warning, and those who try to describe "living in a D/s relationship with my partner(s)" as "Lord High Rumtiddlypoo Of The Collective Of Slaves Of <insert tiny, mickey-mouse, middle-of-bunghole-nowhere shit-tip here>" will, in time, cause a genuine "AH-OOOOOO-GAH!" to crash across your cranium. Seriously, you'll actually hear that sound, internally. No idea how it happens – I presume it’s related somehow to a synesthesial response.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 4:56:41 AM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

And sweet and cuddly,


Way to blow my Domly creds ...

... you total cutie* ;)

As always, any mate of yours ...

*HA! REVENGE IS MINE! OH YES IT IS! HA! HAVE AT YOU!



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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 5:04:30 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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...because shouting 'HA! HAVE AT YOU!' like some demented fencing chicken doesn't blow your own domly creds at all...

And to get this back on track:

That meet-up we're talking about was organised by an owned woman. She made the decision that she wanted to come up to London and say hello, after she and I (and presumably she and RF) talked online. I don't think I'd spoken to her master at all until I met him, and he was secure and confident enough to come meet someone he'd never spoken to because his partner said it would be fun. IMO, all this etiquette doesn't really come up as a problem for people who trust their partners and are grounded in reality - or at least it's never come up in my interactions with people in relationships.

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 5:05:08 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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To the OP - it's important to know what your motives are; if you're just trying to be friendly to someone, you can say hi openly on the forums and then a friendly hello via PM -- and if they choose not to respond to you, then you have to accept that.
if you ARE trying to get something from her, then ask yourself why you're going after someone who's already attached. if you're trying to talk to someone and get insight, that's totally different than trying to get playtime with the person. i've talked to a couple of switch and sub guys who just wanted someone to chat about sub stuff with; no harm, no foul. When i was in my previous relationship, he trusted me enough to deal with it myself, and if something got out of hand, he'd help out. After a while, he decided to have people contact him first because a lot of guys "just wanting to chat" really WEREN'T respecting our relationship, but there were some who were, and he trusted my judgment and commitment -- simple as that.

analyticalmaster is very off the mark... RapierFugue is right about the often excessive amounts of idiocy you'll encounter here, but once you get past them/learn to ignore them, this can be a pretty helpful place.
1) Being 19 doesn't necessarily mean anything about "not having a clue." There are just as many clueless 40+ people as there are 20&under people. Everyone has to start somewhere, and faulting someone simply on an AGE basis is really quite silly.
2) making assumptions about the motives of other people is very very silly as well. like unbelievably silly. none of us know why you're wanting to contact these people, but it's up to you to make sure you analyze your own motives and that they are good and not sneaky.
3) playing with people your own age has some benefits -- sometimes older people are just down right obnoxious. sometimes they make assumptions about you based on how "Under 30" you are. it's pretty bad in the world of femsubs, too -- a lot of older ones get snarky to younger ones because "how on earth could you know the sacrifice and depth of their slavery? you haven't been alive long enough!" pfft. you'll avoid a lot of that playing with younger people. on the flip side, though, since you're a switch, you will run into younger women who often want to bottom to older Tops; the idea is that these older people have more experience and might be more safe. Age has pros and cons, and you just have to learn to navigate them.




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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 5:10:20 AM   
GreedyTop


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What most of the others have said re: know your motives, and ignore analyticalmaster (essentially, anyway..LOL)

Damn you RF.. that "HAVE AT YOU" caused me to detour to you tube to watch the Black Knight clip (what can I say? I never hear that phrase without thinking immediately of that clip)

VC, RF.. when you next talk to RCdc, please pass along my love to them.. I mess them greatly!

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RE: Proper Equitte? - 6/11/2011 5:10:43 AM   
gothikbutterfly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: bhamliving

Hello!

First off, I am relitivly new to the D/s relationship dynamic.  I do not claim to be a master, but since my enterance into the kinky world, I have come in contact, both directly and indirectly, with those who classify themselves as masters. For that reason, I have a question


Spelling “etiquette” correctly might be a good starting point.

Secondly, why would you be wanting to contact someone who already has a Master? Assuming you're not trying to rub another man’s rhubarb, I’d suggest just being polite and respectful and contacting the Master first, if indicated so to do by the sub/slave’s profile.

“Master” is a largely self-imposed term. Anyone claiming it comes with a series of hard and fast “rules” that apply to all "Masters" (or indeed, anyone else) is probably an idiot.




That is the funniest thing I have ever heard in my life!

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