RE: Full Control

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leadership527 -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 9:36:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig This must be the ultimate truth in male-female interactions because it gets me laid How silly. I know for a fact what the ultimate truth of male-female interactions is. Boys will be boys -- except when they're not and except when it's more ambiguous than that. Girls will be Girls -- except when they're not and except when it's more ambiguous than that. Boys and Girls like each other -- except when they don't. Then they form a relationship -- that is terribly complicated and unique to each individual couple There. I think that just about clarifies everything nicely.

BonesFromAsh -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 9:36:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I don't respect men that will stick their dicks in women they do not respect. Bingo!

juliaoceania -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 9:55:48 AM)
Yanno, I have been thinking about the turn this thread has taken and I am chuckling to myself about something. I have known many females in my life that went through periods of being fuck holes that would bang anything that walked, to playing the sweet innocent woman that never puts out when it came time to settle down. I found it rather funny that some men think that women do not engage in sexual subterfuge when they want to snatch a guy up.... Basically it is women using the stereotype in the opposite direction... "I really like this guy, so I am not going to fuck him too quickly because he will think I am easy"... but the guy they thought was hot, had no good job or prospects, they were giving THAT guy the easy pussy. Men can be such rubes when it comes to women, and their silly ideas make them easy marks.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 10:22:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Basically it is women using the stereotype in the opposite direction... "I really like this guy, so I am not going to fuck him too quickly because he will think I am easy"... but the guy they thought was hot, had no good job or prospects, they were giving THAT guy the easy pussy. Its sad the games both sides play and it is so magical when the games fall away and too people can be utterly honest about their needs. Its a major reason young women have ZERO appeal to me, they are usually still trapped in that cycle. Give me an older woman who knows exactly what she wants, knows exactly how she wants it, and can openly and honestly share it with you. Give me one who can look you in the eye and ask for it? Priceless.

juliaoceania -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 11:04:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Basically it is women using the stereotype in the opposite direction... "I really like this guy, so I am not going to fuck him too quickly because he will think I am easy"... but the guy they thought was hot, had no good job or prospects, they were giving THAT guy the easy pussy. Its sad the games both sides play and it is so magical when the games fall away and too people can be utterly honest about their needs. Its a major reason young women have ZERO appeal to me, they are usually still trapped in that cycle. Give me an older woman who knows exactly what she wants, knows exactly how she wants it, and can openly and honestly share it with you. Give me one who can look you in the eye and ask for it? Priceless. I think this is true from my own experience, mature men tend to understand that women are people too, with ideas and fantasies of their own. We are all sexual beings, and I decided a long time ago that men who were threatened by my sexuality weren't for me. I probably played into the game to some extent in my younger years.. mostly due to society's expectations of women and not because I was being dishonest. But I knew dishonest women who would be screwing a few guys at a time, and dating "nice" men who had no clue about it. It isn't cheating, really, but it is starting a relationship under false pretenses.

Awareness -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 11:48:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I don't respect men that will stick their dicks in women they do not respect. It is creepy frankly. I would involve myself with a man that loved a slut before I would involve myself with a man that would only fuck one... Oh bollocks. Women are in no way attracted to men because of our virtues. quote: That is NOT the biological imperative. As someone who has studied evolutionary psychology to some degree on an academic level, it is about as theoretical as time travel. For you to make these blanket statements that all men in all cultures throughout all time view women the same way men in patriarchies do, well, it is just ludicrous. If you are going to claim such things, please support them Toots, super-string theory is fucking theoretical and there's an awful lot of money and brilliant theoreticians being poured into it. Evolutionary psychology is one psychological model and yes, there are others, however if you actually cared to look around you, there's a possibility you might - oh, I dunno - see traces of its possible application. The ditzy chick who wonders why a guy didn't bother with her after she blew him in a back alley within 15 minutes of meeting him is experiencing this reality. You not wanting to believe in it, doesn't change the fact that this is absolutely how men respond to women and what their underlying expectations are. You seem appallingly naive - men are implicitly territorial when it comes to women who they care about. There are very good reasons for this, but if you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend this doesn't happen, be my guest. I have no vested interested in what you believe, but if anyone seriously thinks the word 'slut' has been reclaimed by pre-pending it with 'ethical', then they are seriously fucking deluded.

juliaoceania -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 12:42:11 PM)
quote: Oh bollocks. Women are in no way attracted to men because of our virtues. You know nothing about women.... it is extraordinarily obvious from every response on this thread quote: Toots, super-string theory is fucking theoretical and there's an awful lot of money and brilliant theoreticians being poured into it. Evolutionary psychology is one psychological model and yes, there are others, however if you actually cared to look around you, there's a possibility you might - oh, I dunno - see traces of its possible application. Did you want me to list every culture I can think of in which this is not the case? I am an anthropologist, and culturally speaking when looking at people from around the world I can tell you most assuredly that not all cultures have this view of women. Some people are very casual about sex. It is very deceptive to take such traits as universals, they aren't. Even if you were to look at it from the perspective of other primates, reproductively fertile females are not rejected because some other male got its nut. quote: The ditzy chick who wonders why a guy didn't bother with her after she blew him in a back alley within 15 minutes of meeting him is experiencing this reality. You not wanting to believe in it, doesn't change the fact that this is absolutely how men respond to women and what their underlying expectations are. You seem appallingly naive - men are implicitly territorial when it comes to women who they care about. There are very good reasons for this, but if you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend this doesn't happen, be my guest. I have no vested interested in what you believe, but if anyone seriously thinks the word 'slut' has been reclaimed by pre-pending it with 'ethical', then they are seriously fucking deluded. Like I said, I know what I know, from academic study that not all men put great importance on who has sex with a pussy they have access to.... some cultures men offer their wives up as hospitality to wary travelers, etc. You are viewing the world through your own cultural eyes, and frankly, it applies to the Western male, but it the Western male is not the pinnacle of evolutionary psychology[8\|] Edited to add... if you think for one minute I could care less what hypocritical men think that suffer from crotch rot because they got strange they had no respect for, seriously... you are the one that needs a reality check. I want men that are selective, not one I have to dip in Clorox before I can have sex with him

LaTigresse -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 12:54:42 PM)
Julia, I know we disagree an awful lot, but I have to say I completely respect your ability to disagree so damned well!

juliaoceania -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 1:04:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Julia, I know we disagree an awful lot, but I have to say I completely respect your ability to disagree so damned well! Thanks ( I think[:D]) I have respect for different opinions, but not for people making up their own facts. And I have to say, I have respect for your opinions, even when I disagree with them, because you do not make up your own facts

Awareness -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 1:15:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: Awareness Oh bollocks. Women are in no way attracted to men because of our virtues. You know nothing about women.... it is extraordinarily obvious from every response on this thread You know full well that is a lie. Women have been playing the virtue game for a long time and the smart man knows it's an absolute bunch of nonsense. quote: Did you want me to list every culture I can think of in which this is not the case? I am an anthropologist, and culturally speaking when looking at people from around the world I can tell you most assuredly that not all cultures have this view of women. Some people are very casual about sex. It is very deceptive to take such traits as universals, they aren't. Cobblers. It has nothing to do with culture whatsoever. You're totally missing the point. quote: Like I said, I know what I know, from academic study that not all men put great importance on who has sex with a pussy they have access to.... some cultures men offer their wives up as hospitality to wary travelers, etc. The fact that a woman is a wife in no way implies the guy is invested in her. In those cultures, wives are possessions, nothing more. quote: You are viewing the world through your own cultural eyes, and frankly, it applies to the Western male, but it the Western male is not the pinnacle of evolutionary psychology[8\|] You are confusing culture with psychology. The two are entirely different. quote: Edited to add... if you think for one minute I could care less what hypocritical men think that suffer from crotch rot because they got strange they had no respect for, seriously... you are the one that needs a reality check. I want men that are selective, not one I have to dip in Clorox before I can have sex with him Stupendous irony in this. It's hysterical that you can't see it.

juliaoceania -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 1:30:06 PM)
quote: You know full well that is a lie. Women have been playing the virtue game for a long time and the smart man knows it's an absolute bunch of nonsense. Women are full fledged human beings with sexual desires and sexual thoughts, just like men are... And the fact that you do not understand this is evident on this thread. quote: The fact that a woman is a wife in no way implies the guy is invested in her. In those cultures, wives are possessions, nothing more. So now we are going to start measuring subjective things like "emotional" investment when looking at evolutionary psychology? You were the one that brought this into the mix, not me. In evolutionary terms, different primates have different standards for the relationships that exist between males and females. Now, evolutionary psychologists look at our cousins, the paleontological record, the archaeological record, and then they make these guesses to fill in the blanks when they multiply it up to modern human beings... which again, cannot be studied beyond the theoretical because many of those species that link us to other primates are extinct. . The role of women in society, and their sexual freedom, has been most linked to economic subsistence patterns and kinship relationship systems... not what bonobo chimps do in the wild. quote: You are confusing culture with psychology. The two are entirely different. What field do you think evolutionary psychology comes from? From Wikipedia quote: Evolutionary psychologists hold that behaviors or traits that occur universally in all cultures are good candidates for evolutionary adaptations.[4] Evolved psychological adaptations (such as the ability to learn a language) interact with cultural inputs to produce specific behaviors (e.g., the specific language learned). Basic gender differences, such as greater eagerness for sex among men and greater coyness among women, are explained as adaptations that reflect the different reproductive strategies of males and females.[2][5] Evolutionary psychologists contrast their approach to what they term the "standard social science model," according to which the mind is a general-purpose cognition device shaped almost entirely by culture.[6][7] The problem with evolutionary psychology is that there are VERY few cultural universals, my field is one that looks for "universals", and I can tell you there are VERY few.

kalikshama -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 1:40:13 PM)
quote: I have respect for different opinions, but not for people making up their own facts. [sm=cute.gif]

NocturnalStalker -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 2:06:26 PM)
I like you Julia. When you argue you actually make sense.

catize -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 5:05:29 PM)
quote: You think you're a judgmental bastard? Try this: Three hole slut isn't worth my time. I'm not into damaged women with no self-respect. I prefer bright, self-aware women who are interested in growth and curious to learn. Sometimes shit isn't about kink, it's just that some people are seriously fucked up. ~~looks at you funny~~ [8\|] If two people give each other a good time, it is somehow wrong for her but not for him? It has always amazed me when some guy can bed me, then think less of me. If he was there with me and devalues my contribution to our mutual fun, I say he is the one who has self esteem issues. One of those folks who needs to convince himself of his own value by putting me down. This may burst your smug little misogynistic bubble, but it will be a cold day in hell before I worry about what some men think of me and/or my sexual practices.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 5:43:30 PM)
quote: The problem with evolutionary psychology is that there are VERY few cultural universals, my field is one that looks for "universals", and I can tell you there are VERY few. ~Julia Yes there are very few universals. But when it comes to human behavior and most especially human sexual behavior, we are, as a species, quite unique. Females do not, for instance, advertise our ovulatory burst through a change in physical characteristics, we are not most fertile when we menstruate, in fact, human females have a constant sexual ability. No other species has so definitively uncoupled sex and reproduction. (And no other species has the prolonged blood loss that human females have during menstruation.) We are also unique in that human couples are capable of using a wide variety of sexual positions, and routinely enjoy a prolonged period of foreplay. (Although other species engage in elaborate mating and courting rituals, when they finally get down to business, sexual foreplay is virtually nonexistent.) Most importantly is the female orgasm. No other species comes anywhere near to attaining the heights of sexual pleasure manifested by a woman in the throes of orgasm. My point? Human sexuality is far more biological than it is cultural. (Although which came first, the chicken (biology) or the egg (culture) is quite debatable.) And human sexuality is all about the female having far more sexual freedom and getting far more sexual pleasure than any other species. Ask yourself a question: Why did Natural Selection adopted this strategy in humans? What does it mean about who we are as a species?

sunshinemiss -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 5:56:35 PM)
Sunny Quote of the Day goes to catize [sm=wontshare.gif] for This may burst your smug little misogynistic bubble, but it will be a cold day in hell before I worry about what some men think of me and/or my sexual practices. http://www.collarchat.com/m_3713773/mpage_9/key_/tm.htm#3722888

aromanholiday -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 6:03:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep for the record, i don't believe all "3-hole sluts" (is that a new category for collarme? cause i'll totally sign on haha) are damaged goods without self respect. frankly, i think a lot of women would be sluttier if their reputations wouldn't suffer for it. =p This has evolved into such a strange thread. Men vs. Women on 3-hole-slutism. LOL, it's cute in a sense, although I'm sorry for all the hard feelings that have emerged. I don't know where I fit on the 3-hole-slut scale (although I do tend to think of myself as a 4-hole slut, so perhaps I am a bit confused? ;) ). For me, it's certainly not about reputation, I don't socialize enough to have any sort of reputation. I can go for years (you have no idea how many years) without having any sort of sex at all with anyone, turning down every male in sight, a Barred Iron Door of Virtuousness. This is because I refuse to be influenced by somebody who doesn't strike me as someone who should influence me--if that makes sense. I look for a right fit, and for me, that takes a very long time to find. I guess that's just another way of saying "highly selective." But if I do meet the right sort of man, it's all over. All doors are wide open. If he wants any number of my four holes on the first meeting (I can't call such things "dates," laughing), he's got them, as fast as I can get them out and where he wants them. Due to the type of relationship I always look for, by the time such a person and I meet face-to-face, I expect I'll already be doing absolutely everything he tells me to do and it would therefore be the rankest disobedience, not to mention hypocritical and a betrayal of my own most deeply-held principles, to refuse him anything in a face-to-face encounter, whether it be sexual or not. If that makes me a 3-hole-no-I-insist-upon-4 hole slut, then I am very happy and proud to be one! I don't make any moral distinctions between orders, they are all just orders and, if you want to be a slave, then all are equally important to obey. Some are painful, some are not. I do make that distinction. But I obey the painful ones with as much alacrity as the pleasurable ones, because the whole point is to obey anything you're told to do. Isn't it?

juliaoceania -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 6:05:58 PM)
quote: No other species has so definitively uncoupled sex and reproduction. (And no other species has the prolonged blood loss that human females have during menstruation.) Bonobo chimps do in fact have promiscuous sex all of the time, with random members of their group... Here is an article about them... they have are more matriarchal than other primates, they have hypersexuality, and the study of them has changed the assumptions of other evolutionary psychologists http://songweaver.com/info/bonobos.html Now, I could quote your entire post, but many of the assumptions you have about humans as opposed to other species are wrong when looking at the Bonobo... which is CLOSELY related to us. quote: My point? Human sexuality is far more biological than it is cultural. (Although which came first, the chicken (biology) or the egg (culture) is quite debatable.) And human sexuality is all about the female having far more sexual freedom and getting far more sexual pleasure than any other species. Sexuality is a human imperative, like sleeping, eating, or talking... Who it is okay to have sex with, when it is okay to have sex with them, what sexual practices are considered taboo... etc etc etc... all cultural constructs. It is sort of like this... we are all wired to have language, but what language that we have is completely cultural, not genetic. Now, I will say that females do tend to be selective of sexual partners because we have much more investment in offspring, but that does not mean that women are either Madonnas or whores. I remember one of my professors talked about a study that went unpublished about genetic testing of babies and couples in a maternity ward... they found 15 percent of the offspring born in this hospital did not belong to the father. That is a lot of deception about sexuality. Women are not asexual, is my point. Men have less investment in the sex act, and that means that on average the male of most species tend to get their sperm out there any way they can, but that does not mean that the female of the species isn't hedging her bets by getting resources from external males that may end up being an insurance policy if something happens to the primary mate... they have seen this in so-called monogamous bird species. As far as what this has to do with the three hole slut, she might be looking on this site to get that one itch scratched, and married with children and a career in her real life. Sex is just crazy weird like that.... it is the lack of acceptance that society has about such things that makes perverts like us seek our cravings underground. My cravings are probably more socially acceptable than the three hole slut's, but that doesn't mean she is less of a human being for it.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 6:22:44 PM)
Are you really meaning to imply that the Bonobos' hyper sexuality is that close to human sexuality? If so, I will have to disagree. Bonobos have sex (I think the stat is 90% of the time) while in estrus, it just so happens they are in estrus more than most mammals. Yes, there have been comparisons, but any in depth study shows how far apart humans and Bonobos really are. My entire point was that human sexuality is unique for a reason. Natural Selection made some biological choices for us for a reason. The reason appears to be that humans will survive better if the female has more sexual freedom and gets more sexual pleasure. BTW: having sex is not a human imperative, but a biological one. Which tends to support the belief that human sexuality is unique for biological (not cultural) reasons.

juliaoceania -> RE: Full Control (6/14/2011 6:41:49 PM)
quote: Are you really meaning to imply that the Bonobos' hyper sexuality is that close to human sexuality? If so, I will have to disagree. Bonobos have sex (I think the stat is 90% of the time) while in estrus, it just so happens they are in estrus more than most mammals. No, I am suggesting that as the closest relative to human beings that they resemble us most closely in regard to sexuality... quote: My entire point was that human sexuality is unique for a reason. Natural Selection made some biological choices for us for a reason. The reason appears to be that humans will survive better if the female has more sexual freedom and gets more sexual pleasure. BTW: having sex is not a human imperative, but a biological one. Which tends to support the belief that human sexuality is unique for biological (not cultural) reasons. I would agree that the female sexual response is adaptive for the very reason that the female orgasm helps fertilization. The above was a typo, I meant biological imperative... I do not think we disagree that human beings are animals, their mating adaptations are biological towards our species....what I am saying is that culture shapes how we view sexuality, who we believe it is okay to have sex with, how many partners are acceptable, etc etc etc... In other words, an assertion that caveman takes cavewoman by her hair, takes her into the cave, loves her and guards her pussy from all invaders, is not really one that is universal. There are many cultures where women take multiple lovers, or that sex outside of a romantic relationship is not considered to be bad or imprudent.... But I will reassert my position that in order for something to be a biological imperative it has to be universal (outside of culture). There is only one taboo, for example, that is universal, and that is the son/mother incest taboo (at least according to my socio-bio anthro class). The interesting thing about that is it is the one taboo we share with other primates.

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