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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 7:33:03 PM   
subfever


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Status: offline 		While I'm sure Peaceniks are well-intentioned, good people; I'm equally sure that they'll never accomplish their goals within our system of competition and scarcity, which requires us to feed off of each other.

War is a symptom of the underlying systemic cause.


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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 7:38:52 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

While I'm sure Peaceniks are well-intentioned, good people; I'm equally sure that they'll never accomplish their goals within our system of competition and scarcity, which requires us to feed off of each other.

War is a symptom of the underlying systemic cause.




I think you miss the larger point of the thread

And unless you went to pro peace meetings, etc, you would not know that there is effort to change the system, or the structure, which leads to war


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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 7:49:48 PM   
subfever


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quote:

I think you miss the larger point of the thread

And unless you went to pro peace meetings, etc, you would not know that there is effort to change the system, or the structure, which leads to war




Great, then my statement is still correct. For if they do accomplish their goals, it would not be within our system of competition and scarcity, which requires us to feed off of each other... meaning they would have first changed the underlying systemic cause.

More power to them!

Since you seem to have first-hand experience, what systemic changes have they advocated?

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 7:54:18 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Since you seem to have first-hand experience, what systemic changes have they advocated?


Some people take part in the peace movement to advocate for better working conditions

To spend more money on education, rather than spend money on bombs

Some take part in it to call attention to the plight of poor people in the developing world and appalling work conditions

Some people take part to call attention to violence against women

Some advocate voting in certain ways

There is a large coalition of people who are pro peace, many working within their community to make it a more socially just place to be... each one teach one, and you do what you can in your own backyard.... try to impact the larger system by chipping away at it in your own way.

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 9:59:42 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		I would comment

1. that it shows the Pro democratic party bias of the Media, which is stridently denied by most posters on the left in here.

2. another way of looking at it Julia is the number of Posts made on here by the "Pro Peace Caucus" and what was considered lawbreaking untill Obama got elected.

It got awfull quiet. real fast.

We even have some of the PPC insisting Pakistan supported our raid, when in fact the Pakistani Parliment passed a unanimous condemnation of it.





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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 10:19:04 PM   
Owner59


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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 10:20:29 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

The Pro Peace Movement in the USA


I keep wondering whether there's an Amateur Peace Movement in the USA.

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 10:31:04 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

2. another way of looking at it Julia is the number of Posts made on here by the "Pro Peace Caucus" and what was considered lawbreaking untill Obama got elected.

'
quote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/21/dennis-kucinich-obama-impeachment_n_838502.html


Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) has panned President Obama's decision to participate in Saturday's missile attack on Libya, going so far as to question whether the strikes should be considered an "impeachable offense."

In a lengthy statement dated March 18 and re-printed in full on his website, Kucinich notes:

While the action is billed as protecting the civilians of Libya, a no-fly-zone begins with an attack on the air defenses of Libya and Qaddafi forces. It is an act of war. The president made statements which attempt to minimize U.S. action, but U.S. planes may drop U.S. bombs and U.S. missiles may be involved in striking another sovereign nation. War from the air is still war.


Um, some of us are actually paying attention to what the real pro peace people in this country are saying, some of us are not.

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 10:57:11 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Some people take part in the peace movement to advocate for better working conditions

To spend more money on education, rather than spend money on bombs

Some take part in it to call attention to the plight of poor people in the developing world and appalling work conditions

Some people take part to call attention to violence against women

Some advocate voting in certain ways



While the above efforts are worthy, they still do not address the systemic, underlying cause of war.

quote:

There is a large coalition of people who are pro peace, many working within their community to make it a more socially just place to be... each one teach one, and you do what you can in your own backyard.... try to impact the larger system by chipping away at it in your own way.


The concept of Think Globally, Act Locally has merit.

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 10:58:27 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

While the above efforts are worthy, they still do not address the systemic, underlying cause of war.


Either think globally and act locally has merit, or it doesn't




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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 11:12:31 PM   
subfever


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Status: offline 		Yes, I was looking at the 2nd part of your prior post from my personal efforts of impacting the larger system by chipping away at it locally, and that is; attempting to raise the critical mass to effect real change by focusing on the underlying systemic cause. But I didn't explain it that way, so point taken.

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 11:30:59 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

breathplay is fun, but you have to be real careful who you play with:)


Posts like this is why I find it very hard not to like you Lucy.

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 11:32:33 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Where are the large mass protests and marches in places like Washington DC and New York julia?


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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/10/2011 11:46:17 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		Hmmmm....



Why are cons all of a sudden concerned with peace movements?

They`ve never been in one and until now,cons have had nothing but contempt for them,let alone interest in joining one.

Now, cons are demanding that "the peace movement" (whatever the fuck it is cons think that is)do their bidding?

WTF do these children think they are?"why aren`t you all doing what we want".blah blah blah....

Where do you get off ?

The general public doesn`t fuck`n care.Yemen,yawn,Pakistan,yawn(eww they condemned the raid,who fuck`n cares!!!),no one loves Gaddafi,(well,neo-cons do,but fuck them)yawn on that.



No wonder some of you cons suggested that Weiner`s ween would play a role in '12'. B/c ya`ll got jack shit to work with.With nothing,Weiner`s ween seems like the best chance.lol Good luck with that.


I think what cons are going through, is a realization faze.


They are realizing that the general public isn`t upset with President Obama,the way most Americans grew to be with bush.

Cons know why.

They know that bush`s Iraq adventure was FUBAR.All those deaths and injuries and treasure wasted, for nothing.

They know that President Obama hasn`t made similar errors in judgment or needlessly wasted our GIs` lives.

They know that President Obama has had successes where bush did not.

And cons know that the President is a competent CIC, where two months after bush left,cons where screaming,"when are you going to STOP talking about bush"



And,the American people also know these things.That`s why there`s no protests to speak of.

Although I`ll say there`s one in Montclair almost every month,at Church St.,South Fullerton and Bloomfield Ave.Been going on since cons cursed at them, until today.Where apparently their ranks will swell with ODS sufferers.You cons can tap some tambourines with the super-libs.



Neo-cons are having a tough time dealing with bush`s failures and with President Obama`s successes.



It really irks them.To the point of irrationality.To the point where some cons are defending terrorists(rich) or complaining about violating Pakistan`s sovereignty, in killing bin-laden(luckey)....



I mean. who`da thunk`t? lol



If you cons are all so fired up to protest for peace,then go right ahead.No one`s stop`n ya.



Go join a real peace movement or make yourselves a fake one.



I hope this is one of the GOP`s strategies in '12'.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 6/10/2011 11:51:20 PM >

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/11/2011 2:08:37 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think most people were looking for someone to set limits on our involvement…They were realizing that Iraq was a mistake and Obama is getting us out on a reasonable schedule. Yeah, same as the GWB schedule.

He has been doing the same in Afghanistan while keeping up the pressure on insurgents. I do believe most people were and are for the war in Afghanistan but since the killing of Ben Laden the reason to be there is gone. Wrong. Most people knew that IF bin Laden was still in A-stan there was no way in hell of capturing or killing him without sustaning mass casualties. Bush's de-escalation was late in coming, but Obamas re-escalation pointless.



Butch



Forgot the little escapade in Libya, didja?

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/11/2011 5:21:51 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

breathplay is fun, but you have to be real careful who you play with:)


Posts like this is why I find it very hard not to like you Lucy.


you have your redeeming qualities too

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/11/2011 5:27:47 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Owner regarding why people are mumbling about the lack of protesting pacifists is that they cant whine about us if there arent any so they make up the excuse that we should be enabling them to continue their delusions.
IM a sadistic pacifist, that gives a shit about the troops, and have been roundly criticised by pacifists and sadists, LOL but fuckem if they cant take a joke.
Ill protest again, I have no doubt.. but i have a real life as well as ideologys to nurture. Time is a precious thing.
IM not as full of piss n vinegar as I was 20 years ago



_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Dont Hate Love

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/11/2011 5:27:53 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR....

Where are the large mass protests and marches in places like Washington DC and New York julia?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf9DxCbNbF8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQE2wqRBwQQ


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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/11/2011 8:16:49 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

FR....

Where are the large mass protests and marches in places like Washington DC and New York julia?





I suppose you could always use google like I did to find them... unless of course you don't really care and you are just asking a rhetorical question. These marches still happen

In fact, in case you missed it, I posted a link to a recent march.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: The Pro Peace Movement in the USA - 6/11/2011 10:45:48 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Where are the large mass protests and marches in places like Washington DC and New York julia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf9DxCbNbF8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQE2wqRBwQQ

I'm all in favor of us not getting involved in every fucking outbreak of mayhem that erupts around the world, which according to the accompanying blurbs is what these protests are about. But it is difficult to consider them "peace" movements when our presence is suppressing the level of violence in a situation and/or maintaining what precious little relative peace exists there at all.

K.

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