RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos)

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juliaoceania -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 3:35:16 PM)
quote: They will only do that because no human pack leader is around who gives the command to hunt or not hunt, the whole pack behaviour is something each and every dog has, Im not arguing that all dogs are not pack animals, most dogs will not go after other animals without other dogs.. Perhaps I am not communicating well here, I know what dogs will do, I am saying in my personal experience with dogs MOST are not blood thirsty, most do not engage in this behavior, even the ones that run to some extent.

LadyConstanze -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 3:36:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: About almost all incidents when dogs are out of control are due to human mistakes, the person being bitten behaving stupidly and provoking the bite, or the dog owner not knowing what the fuck they are supposed to do and how to raise the dog, or just being plain lazy and stupid and thinking "It will never happen" and not instilling obedience into their dogs I will say that is mostly true... even the dog that I had that went blood thirsty She was an adult when my mom brought her home. She was closely inbred to be a pure black pom, which are not common. She was the only puppy that her mother ever had that survived out of three litters, because all of the others were highly deformed. Her owners kept breeding this bitch anyways, even though she kept having horrifically deformed pups (for example, one was born with their lungs on the outside of their body, etc). The owners had a son in law that tormented this dog because she was very nervous and he thought it was funny. She was completely ruined by the time we got her. My mom worked for her owners as their maid, so she was well aware of this dogs history, but she felt really sorry for her. The dog was crazy from the day we got her, and we tried our best to overlook it and love her anyways, but it was what it was. We had to put her down when she went for livestock... Inbreeding doesn't bode well for anything, it's amazing that only humans seem to breed for completely undesirable (read useless) traits, most pure white dogs with blue eyes have a lot of genetic defects...

juliaoceania -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 3:40:37 PM)
It was sad that this dog was so batty, she was beautiful, probably the prettiest pom I have ever seen, but she was batshit crazy. We could not have her in the house because she wiped her ass on the floor everywhere, getting crap spots everywhere, she would try to hump our cats, she would patrol our house every two minutes to the point there was this tiny moot around it from her paws constantly circling. We had her for a few years even with her disabilities, but when my cat had kittens she became really jealous because she actually adored us... which made it harder to have her put down. We tried really hard to give her something resembling a life with us.

LadyConstanze -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 3:48:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub ~fr~ Dogs who attack should be shot in the head. Then, their owners should be shot immediately also. That said, I love pits Oh and can we please shoot the idiots too who torment dogs until the point where the dog feels threatened and attacks in self defense? Let's not forget that dogs originally were tamed and bred to assist humans hunting and to defend the humans. As I said, in 90% of all cases when a dog bites, the reason is a human mistake, now we claim to be smarter than dogs, that would include understanding their mentality and to not provoke bites. I've seen idiots try to kiss dogs that were frightened and snarling - yeah, would be the dogs fault then if they'd bite, not the idiot who disregards all warning signs and behaves well, like a brain dead asshole and frightening and cornering the dog. I said it before, mine are lambs and great with kids, but the amount of idiotic parents who shove their kids at pony sized dogs with "Say hello to doggy" and the kid clings to the dog, what if the dog is just not used to kids and startled? I'm sure some idiot would claim it's the dogs fault, how about being a responsible parent and not pushing your toddler in potential harms way without first checking with the owner AND making sure the dog isn't startled. I'm all for getting a license that shows that you're able to handle a dog and raise it responsibly, right after the license for breeding and having kids is pushed through!

juliaoceania -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 3:50:10 PM)
I was bit by a dog when I was walking down the road when I was 11 years old. The dog chased me down and bit me. This dog had a history of biting people in the past, also, and I blamed the dog's owners, because they allowed a dog with a history of biting to roam free in their yard without being tethered or anything.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 3:51:10 PM)
[sm=applause.gif]

LadyConstanze -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 3:59:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: They will only do that because no human pack leader is around who gives the command to hunt or not hunt, the whole pack behaviour is something each and every dog has, Im not arguing that all dogs are not pack animals, most dogs will not go after other animals without other dogs.. Perhaps I am not communicating well here, I know what dogs will do, I am saying in my personal experience with dogs MOST are not blood thirsty, most do not engage in this behavior, even the ones that run to some extent. Not true, when I had only Kia, she would not run after the cat who stood its ground and hissed at her, the cat that ran away, she had the natural instinct to chase, in her case she only picked up the cat and then washed it, she has the hunting instinct but is lacking the "kill" instinct. Telling her to stop and go down, then letting the cat run around while she had the command "stay" cured it, it didn't change when I got a 2nd dog, he picked up on her behaviour ASAP (after being told off and she got praised), I can now basically walk across a field full of sheep with both of them off the lead, they will stay at my heel, the only problem is that I tend to feed sheep with cookies and bread (I like them), the sheep recognize me and want treats and they will headbutt the black and the brown "funny looking sheep" out of the way, and I end up with two Dobies that are whimpering pathetically because the sheep are nasty to them, but because I don't run after the sheep and they haven't been told to "off you go", they will not run after the sheep. The problem with having dogs that are overly friendly is, as guard dogs they are useless, they might bark at a burglar but unless the burglar would attack me or my partner, they just would think it's a new person to play with them and pet them, they'd possibly show the burglar all the flat screens and computers in the house. Small price to pay, I rely on the fact that most burglars possibly will not take the risk of finding out if dogs that size are friendly and have a great temper.... From a certain size on, their presence alone distracts burglars... (And let's hope no burglar will see them bringing toys with "Please play with me" expressions...)

LadyConstanze -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 4:14:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I was bit by a dog when I was walking down the road when I was 11 years old. The dog chased me down and bit me. This dog had a history of biting people in the past, also, and I blamed the dog's owners, because they allowed a dog with a history of biting to roam free in their yard without being tethered or anything. Actually I would blame them for more than that, first of all letting the dog escape, then having a dog who has a history of biting people without correcting the behaviour immediately. I'd say it's the typical example of being irresponsible, though I bet if you would have not run away (which is a natural instinct when being chased though) and assumed a position of "What are you doing? I am your boss! Stop that right now!" the dog might not have bitten unless trained to do so, though that would be too much to expect from a child. That's one of the reasons why I have my mutts rather too placid and putting up with shit from people, because often people don't know how to react. Though it is often galling if they are playing in a dog park and bring a toy or a stick to a stranger and the stranger starts kicking the dog because they are afraid, common sense would tell anybody that a dog putting something at your feet and wagging with a tail or the hind quarters (as Kia was unfortunately docked before we got her) is not aggressive but in fact being friendly. I had idiots slapping at the dogs when they offered the paw, I understand people being afraid of dogs but how about just saying "I'm frightened, please take them away?"

DomKen -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 4:16:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: About almost all incidents when dogs are out of control are due to human mistakes, the person being bitten behaving stupidly and provoking the bite, or the dog owner not knowing what the fuck they are supposed to do and how to raise the dog, or just being plain lazy and stupid and thinking "It will never happen" and not instilling obedience into their dogs I will say that is mostly true... even the dog that I had that went blood thirsty She was an adult when my mom brought her home. She was closely inbred to be a pure black pom, which are not common. She was the only puppy that her mother ever had that survived out of three litters, because all of the others were highly deformed. Her owners kept breeding this bitch anyways, even though she kept having horrifically deformed pups (for example, one was born with their lungs on the outside of their body, etc). The owners had a son in law that tormented this dog because she was very nervous and he thought it was funny. She was completely ruined by the time we got her. My mom worked for her owners as their maid, so she was well aware of this dogs history, but she felt really sorry for her. The dog was crazy from the day we got her, and we tried our best to overlook it and love her anyways, but it was what it was. We had to put her down when she went for livestock... Inbreeding doesn't bode well for anything, it's amazing that only humans seem to breed for completely undesirable (read useless) traits, most pure white dogs with blue eyes have a lot of genetic defects... There is a documentary on the ridiculous inbreeding going on in breeding show dogs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhXHFOrBbEc If you have never seen what is considered a champion German Shepherd you will be shocked at how little the champions resemble the animals we are familiar with.

juliaoceania -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/12/2011 4:17:29 PM)
quote: We may think that predatory behavior is something dogs' ancient relatives needed to survive and that now it's redundant and all but forgotten. But that's not true. All domestic dogs possess an innate prey drive and associated sensory and motor skills to act on this motivation. But activation of prey drive is more complicated than a dog seeing something he considers prey and then chasing it. Below is a list of factors that come together to form the behavioral end point that is fully operational predatory behavior: Breed tendency. Some breeds are more highly motivated to chase prey than others Experience. Success is a potent reward and will instill lasting memories. Opportunity. The freedom to act and a prey-containing environment. Motivation. That aspect of internal processing that propels an animal into action. Social facilitation. The presence or absence of other pack membe http://www.petplace.com/dogs/understanding-hunting-predatory-behavior-in-dogs/page1.aspx Here is more quote: The Domestic Situation Domestic dogs, as a whole, are less well equipped for hunting than their wild cousins who depend on their ability to fend for and feed themselves. That said, the predatory instinct has been preserved to some extent in all dogs and has been cultivated and refined in certain breeds. The working behavior of sporting breeds is based almost entirely on customized predatory instincts. For example, pointers sniff out and point toward game, retrievers find and retrieve shot or injured prey with their "soft mouths," and spaniels locate and then leap, or spring, to flush out quarry. Breeds most well known for having high prey drive are contained within the herding group. Herding behavior provides the best example of the predatory behavior at work in modern-day domestic dogs. From the stalk to the crouch, creep to the running and nipping, shepherd dogs almost have it all, except the final consummatory phase, which has been agonizingly culled out of their predatory repertoire for centuries. Though actively suppressed, this final phase of the predatory sequence is still genetically encoded in the various members of these breeds and re-emerges from time to time. This says what I am trying to say, but much more articulately....

LillyBoPeep -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 5:44:24 AM)
http://www.dirtydurham.com/DirtyDurham/Blog/Entries/2011/6/12_Pit_Bull_City.html check out this cool link i snatched from someone in vanilla land -- the old-timey war poster is pretty sweet. haha ^_^

Aynne88 -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 5:57:22 AM)
quote: Tree Style [Subscribe] Sub quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Its perfectly legal here for me to shoot dogs if theyre attacking my pets or my livestock or if I just feel threatened by them. It absolutely is. You shouldn't have to fear repercussion for protecting yourself , your property and your animals from a stray viscous dog. By stray I mean running free because it's owners are too stupid and irresponsible to keep it contained. Also, as to the breed debate, I have owned a Rottweiler and a German Shepard. That Rottie would tear someone from limb to limb if anyone even yelled at me, so yes, absolutely some dogs are FAR more ingrained to be viscious than othere breeds, it's not an insult it is just a fact. I had an employee that owned a Pitbull and that was the most ignorantly aggressive dog I have ever seen. It smashed through the window in his truck to get out because Tim ( his owner ) was in his driveway arguing with his brother. I get that people that own them want to defend them, and yes, owners that encourage that suck, however, the reason it is SO easy to get a pit bull to be aggressive like that is because they are already wired for that behavior to begin with. Sanity just shoot it next time, don't wait and see what he might do, I'd give the neighbors one call and say if it happens again, I am taking the dog out. End of story.

LafayetteLady -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 10:38:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel LayfayetteLady, I have no clue what you are talking about. Where did i ever say there are dogs that are naturally more vicious. i SAID, and let me quote "I hate to say it but the irresponsible dog owner is the one refuses to recognize the very REAL possibility that their breed is one that has major instincts to attack or whatever its defined as. Caustion and realization and prevention are three things that make a responsible owner of these types of breeds. If you have an owner oblivious to the possible risk, that to me is when a dog is dangerous. There ARE DOGS that have major instincts to attack or "whatever its defined as." That isn't ignorance, its truth and if you deny same YOU are the one who is speaking in ignorance. The website has data that shows how many bites etc, show me a website that contradicts that. I haven't seen one. In fact i also posted a website that shows the DIFFERENCE between canine homicide and biting. Perhaps you are too eager to see my post as a NEGATIVE concept when it wasn't and you were too eager to want to say how ignorant my post was when again it wasn't. It was spot on to what most people are saying. As LaTigresse and others pointed out, it is ABSOLUTE ignorance to be in denial about your dogs and yes, on many occassions what a breed is capable of. If you seriously want to run around saying its okay to be ignorant and in denial what an animal breed is capable of when you own same, then fine, but i will disagree with you every time. Again, please show me a website contradicting the statistics. All that one webite does is state the statistics, but if you have different statistics then please show them to me. I never said anything like your last paragraph implies, perhaps you need to slow down and READ what was said instead of putting words into someone's post. That in and of itself is pompous of you to do. And if you read my post, you will see -- if you take your negativity glasses off, i speak of the OWNERS being in denial about what their dogs CAN be capable of. It is ignorant of an owner to own a dog and NOT be aware of what it is capable of -- if yo don't acknowedge what it is capable of how can you TRAIN it properly. And, yes, only someone ignorant would ignore what statistics do say, because like it or not, they show what a dog with bad owners can DO. Therefore, that gives them an idea of how to be good owners and train them a certain way. But of course, people can remain in denial and not train them with the understanding of what the dogs are capable of, and well gee, would that make them a BAD owner, yes? angel Gee, check out the bold areas....That's saying definitively (with a complete ignorance of dogs or breeding) that some are "known" to be more vicious. Perhaps you should read a bit of LadyConstanze's posts and learn a bit about dogs before stating things as fact. I realize it is a professional habit, but when you so obviously don't know what you are talking about, it is nothing more than being your usual know it all self. Quite obviously, you never learned much about statistics and you know NOTHING about statistical data regarding dog bites. Are you aware that small dog bites are not reported? The law (you are familiar with that entity, yes?) does not require it. What would that tell a logical person? That the data presented anywhere on dog bites is skewed and inaccurate. The ONLY (since you are so fond of your caps lock key) thing that you have said that has been FACTUALLY correct is that an owner must take responsbile for their pet, whatever it is, along with the concept that Sanity should make sure that he follows through the proper legal channels to make sure that the owners are held responsible for the damage their dogs did. You might be able to convince your bosses and others that you are a sharp cookie, but if you look at any of the other posts from people who actually are involved in animal rescue and training, you might actually learn something.

LafayetteLady -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 10:50:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I took care of the wounds myself, knowing that chances are that I would never see compensation from the dog owner. The penicillin and the syringes and the iodine solution cost me less than $24.00 at the local farm store. The fence repairs will cost about twice that, including rebar reinforcement and a few posts. Its my time that Im not sure how to bill for, assuming I am ever even asked. Small claims court is one possibility, and restitution is another but both options will cost me even more of my time. And collecting a judgment can be next to impossible anyway... What really concerns me the most is the dogs. The deputy who I talked with informed me that they were being held at the dog pound and that he was going to try to get them destroyed, and I really just never want to see them around here again. Most states will not allow you to bill for your time in making your own repairs. If you had a professional do the work (or possibly if you are a professional in that particular trade), then yes, otherwise, sadly, your time can't be billed for. You MIGHT be able to make an argument for lost wages from some other job necessitated for time off for repairs, but unlikely. Cost of materials, however, the bills are all you would need. Yes, it is possible for you to take them to Small Claims Court, however, it might not even be necessary. Incidentally, unless the owners agree to pay you restitution, that is what you would be taking them to Small Claims for. Now, I said it might not be necessary, remember? Many municipalities will allow a victim to simply apply for restitution as part of the municipal case. All you need to do is provide the documention of your costs. It is best not to approach the dog owners until you know exactly who they are. No use knocking on doors ready to yell at someone who doesn't own the dogs. But if you haven't gotten the police report, if you don't go to the municipal hearing about these dogs, you have no one to blame but yourself if the issue is not resolved and it happens again. May sound mean, but if you don't follow through with your part, don't go complaining how the legal system failed you or that your animals were attacked again, because then it will be all your own fault. I'm sorry that your cow had to go through such a horrible experience, but realistically it is now your responsibility to see things through and take care of the problem. If your time is more valuable than your livestock, then you have nothing to complain about.

MzReel4Real -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 1:26:42 PM)
How is the steer doing? Oh and small claims court...if you want to charge your labor for repairing your fence, you can keep track of hours and whatever the "normal" going rate is for manual labor in your area, is usually acceptable. I hope in the midst of all the other posts your able to let us know how your herd is doing. Patricia

Sanity -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 1:59:55 PM)
He looked so sad and lethargic and had lost so much blood the day he was attacked that I didnt think he had any chance. There were blood trails throughout the pasture, and his head was covered in blood, but now he is healthy enough to evade my lasso and so he is off of the antibiotics. He is up and eating, he was eating the day after the attack which was a very good sign. He is even very spirited at this point. I am keeping a close eye on him though to make sure he doesnt get taken down by an infection, because there is still that possibility..

Louve00 -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 2:14:29 PM)
My husband also said he would sue for damages, especially since the dog owner hasn't had the decency to contact you. I told him what one poster here said about not complaining anymore and just shooting them when they come onto your property. He's not a big advocate of killing a creature who is following instinct, but he is an advocate for responsible pet ownership. You have a responsibility to you and yours. God forbid your children were around and those dogs considered your children fair "game". We have two dogs too, one is a pit. Our pit would probably try to play with your steer lol. He's just a big goof. Our female may bark like a crazy fool at him, but if they ever hurt your animals or damaged anything, we would be right on your doorstep, trying to make it right. And that's if they ever got out to run without supervision!!

NocturnalStalker -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 2:14:31 PM)
Shoot it in the body. Let it writhe around, then shoot it in the head. Then reload your gun. Shoot it again. Finally, hang it from your neighbour's tree. I hate dogs with a passion. Especially pit bulls.

kyblu4U -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 2:33:52 PM)
I am a animal lover ... BUT with that said ... I will not hesitate to put a animal down that threatens me, my animals, or my family. My Neighbor down the road (less than 1/4 mile) has two labs that run free while he's at work. One of them cornered me in my shop (the sliding doors were open), thankfully I was able to shoo it away that day. A few days later it and its compadre returned. I left the bloody carcass on his porch. He called the cops, they talked to me, I told em what happened, showed em where it was shot (a 12 ga with a deer slug leaves a big mess) and they informed the owner that I was within my rights to defend myself and my property from threats. If he didn't want his animals killed, keep em at home ... He's since picked up another black lab and they are running free again, chasing the Cattle across the road ... it's only a matter of time before history repeats itself. Sorry to hear about your wounded cow - but its great that he's recovering so well!

MzReel4Real -> RE: When A Dog Pack Attacks (Graphic Bloody Photos) (6/13/2011 3:39:57 PM)
NocturnalStalker that is wrong on so many levels and beyond ignorant. You might be the reason I carry a gun.

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