RE: Useful Contracts

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VaguelyCurious -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 7:26:14 AM)
Thank you :-) (Yay!)

SailingBum -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 11:31:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum I breezed thru the post saw haircut, contract, DM. In essence the more I read the lamer it got. So I may have skipped over that part. A contract is between the parties that sign it not a third party. Now perhaps if it was some sort of very risky edge play then the DM might need some sort of release, but a hair cut not so much. ppl do that all the time in public barber shops around the world. Why in the world would you think you'd need a contract. So instead of saying to whomever mr smith is gonna cut my hair. You instead have a contract drawn up"to ease the minds of others"??? Does this CS person not speak or sumptin? re the statement I highlited. It a freaking hair cut how much reassurance could anyone over the age of 5 need? I saw the pict someone siting calm in a chair. I suspect my reading skills are fine it's your writing skills that need work. I get my hair cut all the time what in the world would make you think I need a contract??? What the hell am i missing here? BadOne I think you're wrong on this one. What you are seeing as a haircut, I'm seeing as a form of a resistance play scene that's being held at a public dungeon. Even though the parties agreed beforehand that the scene was consensual, I'm guessing that there was a good probability that there was going to be some struggle involved, some fighting back, and some shouts of protests once the scene started. There's no better time to make the DMs aware in advance of what was going to happen that evening. People may get haircuts all of the time, but when's the last time you saw a grown adult kicking, screaming, and trying to get away in a barber shop? See your making my point for me. I totally agree that once the bitch slapping starts the DM should be made aware beforehand. A conversation between DM and the parties involved makes complete sense, a contract between the players not so much. Looking at the photo It doesn't appear to be any resistance. Furthermore any DM hears it getting out of hand contract, or not it would not prevent the DM from stopping the scene. The point I am making is, it's up the DM NOT the players. Case in point. Both parties sign a contract that I'm going to knock your teeth out. Do you really think a DM would agree to that? BadOne

LadyPact -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 12:10:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum See your making my point for me. I totally agree that once the bitch slapping starts the DM should be made aware beforehand. A conversation between DM and the parties involved makes complete sense, a contract between the players not so much. Looking at the photo It doesn't appear to be any resistance. Furthermore any DM hears it getting out of hand contract, or not it would not prevent the DM from stopping the scene. The point I am making is, it's up the DM NOT the players. Case in point. Both parties sign a contract that I'm going to knock your teeth out. Do you really think a DM would agree to that? BadOne Nothing more frustrating than having a good reply all typed up and the computer eating it. [:@] First, your hypothetical doesn't work. There's a difference between a scene where resistance is going to happen and one that is going to intentionally require medical care. I don't know CS personally, so I can't say how her demeanor would be upon arriving at the club knowing this was the plan. Not everybody is going to be especially talkative when they know what is about to happen. If she had a lot of anxiety about the scene that was gong to be conducted, she may not have been especially gabby and the contract would have been a good way for the DM to understand what they were going to do. It would have given the opportunity for CS to give simple yes and no answers if the DM wanted to verify her underlying consent. What hasn't been talked about on this thread (and every DM should consider, in My opinion) that in a public club, the DMs have to be aware of these kinds of scenes coming up, if for no other reason than how the tourists are going to react. While you, VC, or Myself would understand that, as long as somebody's not calling out "red" that the scene is probably under control, somebody not familiar with resistance play leading to things like, "no, don't do that, please, please stop" being said, doesn't mean that they want the scene pulled. The DMs have to deal with them as well as the actual scene going on.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 1:30:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Nothing more frustrating than having a good reply all typed up and the computer eating it. [:@] First, your hypothetical doesn't work. There's a difference between a scene where resistance is going to happen and one that is going to intentionally require medical care. I don't know CS personally, so I can't say how her demeanor would be upon arriving at the club knowing this was the plan. Not everybody is going to be especially talkative when they know what is about to happen. If she had a lot of anxiety about the scene that was gong to be conducted, she may not have been especially gabby and the contract would have been a good way for the DM to understand what they were going to do. It would have given the opportunity for CS to give simple yes and no answers if the DM wanted to verify her underlying consent. What hasn't been talked about on this thread (and every DM should consider, in My opinion) that in a public club, the DMs have to be aware of these kinds of scenes coming up, if for no other reason than how the tourists are going to react. While you, VC, or Myself would understand that, as long as somebody's not calling out "red" that the scene is probably under control, somebody not familiar with resistance play leading to things like, "no, don't do that, please, please stop" being said, doesn't mean that they want the scene pulled. The DMs have to deal with them as well as the actual scene going on. Thanks, Lady P. You're saying all of this much more clearly than I seem to be able to right now. [:)]

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 1:54:29 PM)
This might be a more appropriate question for a local attorney than a message board. Just saying. It seems like what you are talking about is a document establishing informed consent and a release fro Liability. They vary by state. Talk to a lawyer

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 1:58:04 PM)
A release from liability? Hell no. Just an explanation as to the situation for other people who were going to be present. This was not a legal document, it was a piece of notepaper with a few bullet points and a signature on it - that's all.

MrHCurious -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 3:02:37 PM)
quote: Were you there? From start to finish. This: "demanding everything stop because it had gotten much too silly and couldn't you hear her screaming red and you're all SO DANGEROUS GET OUT GET OUT AND NEVER COME BACK." That's a ridiculous hypothetical, but a hypothetical I was using to illustrate the point - people got hold of the DM ahead of time and explained the situation so that, if CS had started screaming red, the DM wouldn't react as above. I'm curious why somebody (OwnedFemaleFlesh? I'm not sure without looking) came out strongly against scenes involving a degree of consensual non-consent in a dungeon-type environment, though. So long as the DMs are informed in good time that it is a CNC scene and there are no safewords involved, what's the concern? I could understand it if the objection was about noise levels - a scene at a recent event raised a lot of controversy partly for this, the submissive was being beaten very heavily and screaming at the top of her lungs, which apparently distracted and disturbed other people in the play area - but that doesn't seem to be the case.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/15/2011 6:18:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum Oh hell yea my IQ is something less than zero.... Apparently not much more when it comes to women. Has any woman ever told you how she feels about getting her hair cut, let alone having her head shaved? quote: So you play the age card assuming incorrectly i might add that because someone is younger they cannot communicate effectively. Im not sure about you but by the time I was outta high school I had a decent vocabulary. Hell if I remember right I could even string a couple sentences together. So you tell me who the moron is here??? Me for thinking that she has trust issues cuz she has to have a signed fucking contract to get a hair cut REALLLY???? or YOU saying perhaps she cant verbalize the need/ desire, want WhatFuckingEver cuz she is too young. Keep in mind you gotta be over 18 or 21 to log on here. Truly you can't be serious. I got a laff outta your post cuz it was so ridiculous. BadOne Sure young people can string some sentences together. Many of them quite well around here. However, when two people are talking about a particular scene (haircut or waxing their ass, doesn't matter), quite often they might be so excited by the scene, (hmmm....term "sub frenzy" familiar?) they might forget something important. I'm not saying that everyone should have some kind of written agreement, but if it makes one of the people involved feel more comfortable about things, especially if it is a single scene kind of thing, no one is in a position to say that what they do is silly, ridiculous, that they lack trust in each other or anything else. Not even you. Normally, some sense comes out of your mouth and I actually usually enjoy your posts. But here, you admit you skimmed it, you are TOTALLY unfamiliar with the parties involved, and with just seeing a couple of words, decided that these two didn't trust each other. Really, how many women do you personally know with shaved heads, lesbian, bi or straight? I'm not talking about beautiful women with a Jamie Lee Curtis style (super short), but women whose hair is long? I'm sure you will call me crazy, but I went to a salon for a trim, they wanted to cut about 6" off my hair (which reaches my butt), and I walked out. Not screaming, but with no intention of returning (since they didn't have time when I went in). Someone talked about shaving my head, not one chance in a million. I'm willing to bet that a great deal of women around here feel pretty attached to their hair.

CreepyStalker -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/27/2011 8:38:52 PM)
Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I couldn't post sooner because I'm an idiot (I logged out and forgot my password, then tried to reset it but apparently I'd spelt my own email wrong when I signed up. Epic fail.) Not that I feel obliged to explain myself to the idiot who reckons I just went and got a hair cut, but I do wish to add my perspective to this thread... My hair is a fairly big deal. You can't see it from the photo as it was cut down to root regrowth by then, but it was shoulder length and bright purple. (Not boring plummy purple tint like you get from pharmacies, but proper bright lurid purple). Pretty much a defining feature according to most people I encounter. Having this forcibly removed was a traumatising prospect that I was entirely likely to have tried to chicken out of (not so much by screaming safewords, but more likely by delaying it repeatedly till it's too late). Having a plan decided in advance was definitely useful for this, as it removed the need for me to actively consent at the time. If asked if I still wanted to do it I would have found it almost impossible to say 'yes' (and thus actively allowing proceedings to begin) while all my instincts were screaming otherwise, even if I did still sort of want to. Having a signed piece of paper and a decision pre-made removed the question altogether and left me alone to get on with quietly trying to quell a massive panic. I don't see any way this could have been possible without a 'contract'(/statement of whatever you want to call it). I trust VC completely (regardless of what's written down), but I really don't expect anyone else to just take her word for that without asking me. For the record, it was a wonderfully horrific experience that felt more like I was having my hair ripped out of my scalp than anything else, and I'm now thoroughly enjoying being a bald person. :-D

LadyPact -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/27/2011 8:41:54 PM)
I'm glad you did bring it back up, CS. There was a similar scene at Northern Exposure this past weekend and I couldn't help thinking of you folks. Getting to be at that scene almost gave Me a hint of how fun it would have been to be at yours.

whitedragonX -> RE: Useful Contracts (6/27/2011 9:06:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker Rivetting tale, lad. I've come to conlusion that your a troll 4-chan -------> come back when you aren't a trolly teenager Thanks :)

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