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The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 9:45:23 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

Gingrich accused NASA's bureaucracy of wasting hundreds of billions of dollars that it's spent since the 1969 moon landing. Without such waste, he said, "we would probably today have a permanent station on the moon, three or four permanent stations in space, a new generation of lift vehicles."
NASA insider: Some truth to Gingrich's barb


For the last 39 years, with the exception of unmanned probes, NASA has been stuck in low earth orbit. It is equal to Columbus discovering the New World, and then Europe spent the next hundred years sailing around the English Channel and the Mediterranean.

As of 2005, the shuttle program has cost the US a tidy $145 billion, with the total being an estimated $174 billion by the time the last flight is made.

The Constellation program which was to replace the shuttle was cancelled, after a few billion was spent on a project that was a giant leap side ways, creating a space craft with a lower number of crew, less payload per shot, and for long distance missions such as a return trip to the moon would require TWO launches, the payload vehicle and the crew vehicle.


Arthur C. Clarke had an interesting statement in an interview:

quote:

In 1964, when we started work on the movie, the first landing on the moon was still 5 years into the future. 2001 just seemed in fact, 1984, choose the date at random, that seemed in the remote future. I don't know whether I suspected or hoped that I'd still be around in 2001, you know we assumed that the things we showed could happen by then. In fact, it is now forgotten that in the 1960's there were serious plans at NASA to put men on Mars in the 1980's.
Dr. Arthur C. Clarke Interview Interviewer, Dr. David G. Stork



What have we gotten for the billions spent on the shuttle program?

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 9:47:27 PM   
popeye1250


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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 9:49:45 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
What have we gotten for the billions spent on the shuttle program?


Lots of stuff in the medical field. Ultrasounds and mammography are two. Safer babies/delivery and breast cancer screening. You have a problem with this why?

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 9:55:37 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		We would have had those things if NASA had been working hard at getting out of low earth orbit.

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 9:58:58 PM   
PilotPTK


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Was it worth 174 Billion? That's hard to say... I know I've watched the Government spend 174 Billion on dumber things than the research that has come from our space program..

Wouldn't we be better of discussing the merits of the "Stimulus" Package that cost 4 times as much over a MUCH shorter time frame?

(Edited for Spelling)

< Message edited by PilotPTK -- 6/14/2011 10:01:33 PM >

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 10:04:16 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		The school I was in pulled us out of class to watch the first shuttle landing in 1981. I think it was one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time, but just never worked out. We got some science, we gained some experience, but I'm with you and Newt (now that's a scary!), in thinking the money could have been much better spent.

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 10:15:48 PM   
mynxkat


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Status: offline 		No, it was NOT a waste of money. We got tons of advances in medical care, computers (you can thank the space program for the computer you're using), composite materials, nifty things like mylar... the list is LONG.

I think you're looking at the problem from the wrong angle. The biggest problem is NOT NASA, it's the various governments that use cuts to the space program budgets as election platforms. If our oh so wonderful government would get out of the way, we COULD have permanent installations, maybe even civilian colonies on the moon by now and be headed to the asteroids to mine them.

Sure, the shuttle program has gone basically nowhere... but that's not NASA's fault. The U.S. got heavily into space because the Russians were pushing in that direction, and well, we couldn't let them get a leg up on us, right?

Voters are short sighted creatures, and politicians use this fact to their own benefit. Especially during election years. Tossing out sound bites about how much the space program costs is a good diversion from other, more serious issues.

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 10:42:34 PM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		I am of the opinion that we need to straighten out the infrastructure on planet earth before investing money into getting to Mars...

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 10:43:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mynxkat

computers (you can thank the space program for the computer you're using),


That ones a stretch. I think youre confusing the DoD with NASA.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 6/14/2011 10:46:24 PM >

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/14/2011 10:59:22 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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Status: offline 		I think the space program has been less and less worth it as time passed.

It seems all they do now is send probes, everywhere, sun probes, planet probes, probes, probes, probes.

Hell, but I don't really see with the current methods of propulsion how space flight will be practical. So, IMO, I think we are at a sort of technological barrier for the type of rockets we currently use.

Now, I think over time it won't matter, we will still advance with or without the government. Nanotech offers much more for the future of space flight than anything. IMO.

As in, building a space elevator, is almost feasible now, we still have to figure out how to build long carbon nanotubes, or some other nanotech dependent tether material, but in "theory", a tether strong enough to facilitate a space elevator is possible.

So, I'm not sad, if the focus from rocket propelled space travel diminishes a bit, that method will only work for short trips anyway, and it is dangerous, and costly.

However, a space elevator, now you are talking, real progress. The power for the elevator could largely be earth based, and then you only need to power the ship that is already in space, and that means you could construct nuclear powered ships (little danger of exploding into the atmosphere), or any number of alternatives, and that just may get is travelling a little bit more up there, and possible mining some of the lifeless rocks, instead of pillaging the earth for everything.

Anyway, maybe it's time NASA goes byebye, and we wait for better methods.

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 3:17:04 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
What have we gotten for the billions spent on the shuttle program?


Lots of stuff in the medical field. Ultrasounds and mammography are two. Safer babies/delivery and breast cancer screening. You have a problem with this why?
Ultrasonography predates the Space program. So do Cat scans, mylar, and a host of other things attributed to NASA.

As much as I like many of the things NASA has done (launching the Hubble, for one), I think much of the money has been wasted, and many of the things attributed to NASA were either in the works, predate NASA, or would have been invented without the space program.


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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 4:19:43 AM   
Fetters4U


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Status: offline 		The government is a waste of money, NASA is not. The spin-offs from the space program are incredible.   We should have spent more on NASA. We should have done more by now. We should have a much better permanent orbital base. We should have a permanent Moon base. We should be planning a trip to Mars.We desperately need to survey or solar system for objects that could impact earth -- that would cost less then it will to oust Wiener's wiener.
  Had we given the entire stimulus program money to NASA it would been far better spent than lining the pockets of billionaires. That would have been far more help to the US economy in the long term.   Since NASA only has the budget for probes, they launch probes. At least we are learning something exploring heavenly bodies. Speaking of which, I would like to launch a Megan Fox probe.

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 4:32:07 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		I think the key word here is Government.

Had the space program been privatized, we would have a permanent presence on the moon and orbital manufacturing facilities that showed a profit.

The ultimate in outsourcing jobs,

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 4:38:46 AM   
farglebargle


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Need Another Seven Astronauts...

Here's the deal. If the US Congress gets off their ass and offers 100 billion tax free to the American Company who can deliver a launch system which can get 50,000 pounds of payload to GEO, and can do it 14 times in a year, then we'd have access to GEO inside of 5 years and for only 100 billion dollars and a patent.

Once we have access to GEO, sending union construction crews and materials to build solar power satellites is business as normal.

It's 1970's era technology, and if Reagan had started then we'd have capacity online now, and wouldn't need to give a shit about the middle east anymore.

It's a National Security issue.

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 4:46:33 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		The interesting thing about Gringrich's comment is that he's avoiding the normal Republican line of blaming NASA's "failure" on Carter. (Which has always puzzled me, as Nixon set the ball rolling on that one.)

William, while the notion of privatised space industry is attractive to sf writers (many of whom are libertarians, and so fixated on how inherently evil big government is is), can you really see any private investor springing for 175 billion people are complaining about the shuttle programme costing, let alone the still more (in '60s terms) Apollo and its predecessors cost? Can we be sure that there'd have ever been any manned space flights at all if it hadn't been for the propaganda front of the cold war?

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 4:48:19 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		Boeing, Lockheed dump 500 Million dollar pension liability on US Taxpayers.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/15/985304/-Surprise:-Boeing,-Lockheed-Leave-NASA-with-$500M-Pension-Mess

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 4:52:40 AM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		yes, we desperatley need to put all our eggs in one basket, for "national security".....

And it was Reagan's fault, not Carter's or Clinton's....

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 5:25:56 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

yes, we desperatley need to put all our eggs in one basket, for "national security".....

And it was Reagan's fault, not Carter's or Clinton's....


EXACTLY how is building a constellation of satellites ( you know, like GPS ) and a network of ground stations ( you know, like the power plants we have now ) "putting all our eggs in one basket"?

And I didn't say it was Reagan's fault. Practically, Reagan was the first post-Nixon-NASA-Rape president who had a chance of getting it done. If Clinton started, we wouldn't have capacity coming online yet. This is a 30-50 year project, but it solves the Energy Crisis forever and gives Americans the universe. ( Unless you'd rather your kids only get off earth as indentured servants of some Chinese company instead, with the mandatory sterilization requirement )

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 6/15/2011 5:30:09 AM >

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 5:55:41 AM   
EternalHoH


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Status: offline 		NASA is nowhere near the level of waste as these dumbass wars represent.

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RE: The Government and NASA, Has it been a waste of money? - 6/15/2011 7:44:52 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Boeing, Lockheed dump 500 Million dollar pension liability on US Taxpayers.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/15/985304/-Surprise:-Boeing,-Lockheed-Leave-NASA-with-$500M-Pension-Mess


sigghhh. Another one who is so wrong so often. The benefits are paid from insurance premiums paid by companies, not the taxpayers.

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