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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 3:24:01 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		The use of etiquette and/or good manners never goes out of style, no matter your gender, sexual orientation, or D/s role.

In my mind, a dominant personality has an abundance of self confidence and could give a shit what others think; he/she does what seems most correct at the moment.

Now, if the OP had asked if societal trends were blurring gender lines and making it socially unacceptable for men to behave naturally in some circumstances, I would have to say yes. But I'd want to define all my terms first, I'm female and analytical like that.



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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 3:29:34 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

The use of etiquette and/or good manners never goes out of style, no matter your gender, sexual orientation, or D/s role.

In my mind, a dominant personality has an abundance of self confidence and could give a shit what others think; he/she does what seems most correct at the moment.

Now, if the OP had asked if societal trends were blurring gender lines and making it socially unacceptable for men to behave naturally in some circumstances, I would have to say yes. But I'd want to define all my terms first, I'm female and analytical like that.




Depends what is natural behaviour, some might say farting and burping is natural too, I would really take offense to somebody doing that, just like the whole clubbing over the head business...

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 4:24:42 PM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline 		I don't equate taking control with being 'a real man'. If I did, then I would be extremely confused by the actions of Dommes and male subs. Possession of a penis is, for me, what makes a 'real man', as opposed to a pretend one. I am in a relationship with someone who likes to be in control because I am a submissive, not because I am a 'real woman'. I'm pretty sure I'm still a real woman even when I'm not submitting.

owned xxx

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 5:14:31 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I find it amusing that some are turning having manners and being courteous in life into a political discussion of male oppression.

Like many here, I am very courteous, open doors for both men and women and am polite unless someone is an asshole towards me.

I was raised by my parents who instilled these values in me; my Dad is one of the most courteous, gentleman I have ever met. My brothers are the same. This behavior is instilled by good parents.

I appreciate men who have manners. I cannot fathom how anyone could find fault with a door being opened for them.

As for the whole real man issue, like all the semantics that are flung about here, it is up to interpretation. I personally feel a real man is whatever he thinks he is and for me, that would be a man who is honest, has values, integrity, character and who does not let anyone else define him.

Same goes for a real woman.

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 5:36:25 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

The use of etiquette and/or good manners never goes out of style, no matter your gender, sexual orientation, or D/s role.

In my mind, a dominant personality has an abundance of self confidence and could give a shit what others think; he/she does what seems most correct at the moment.

Now, if the OP had asked if societal trends were blurring gender lines and making it socially unacceptable for men to behave naturally in some circumstances, I would have to say yes. But I'd want to define all my terms first, I'm female and analytical like that.




Depends what is natural behaviour, some might say farting and burping is natural too, I would really take offense to somebody doing that, just like the whole clubbing over the head business...


I agree, but again that is an etiquette issue, not a gender one. I would be equally offended by a female doing the same.


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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 5:39:05 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I find it amusing that some are turning having manners and being courteous in life into a political discussion of male oppression.

Like many here, I am very courteous, open doors for both men and women and am polite unless someone is an asshole towards me.

I was raised by my parents who instilled these values in me; my Dad is one of the most courteous, gentleman I have ever met. My brothers are the same. This behavior is instilled by good parents.

I appreciate men who have manners. I cannot fathom how anyone could find fault with a door being opened for them.

As for the whole real man issue, like all the semantics that are flung about here, it is up to interpretation. I personally feel a real man is whatever he thinks he is and for me, that would be a man who is honest, has values, integrity, character and who does not let anyone else define him.

Same goes for a real woman.



Me too, but that is how the OP began her discussion, we're just working from there. There have already been many posts about how realistic that is, and how it effects "real men" or "real doms."




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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 6:38:23 PM   
Back2theFuture


Posts: 183
Joined: 4/19/2011
Status: offline 		I think Society has given men the wrong impression of what it means to be a real man.

This sloppy angry say what I want consequences be damned, attitude that reality Tv portrays is not what it means to be a man.
Nor is the wolfish womanising Playboy image.

Men seem to have forgotten what it means to be a man.

< Message edited by Back2theFuture -- 6/16/2011 6:39:01 PM >

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 6:46:26 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline
quote:

Men seem to have forgotten what it means to be a man.
That's a loaded statement if ever I saw one. isn't a "real" man pretty much like a "real" Dom, or a "true" sub? Completely in the eye and mind of the beholder?

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 6:49:21 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Men seem to have forgotten what it means to be a man.
That's a loaded statement if ever I saw one. isn't a "real" man pretty much like a "real" Dom, or a "true" sub? Completely in the eye and mind of the beholder?


YUP!

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I find it amusing that some are turning having manners and being courteous in life into a political discussion of male oppression.


well that's how the OP is phrased, so it's not really that big of an issue. the OP is about whether or not modern society is making it difficult for men to be real, i.e. "oppressing" them.


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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 7:01:57 PM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: texastgirl

i mean used to when a man would open a door or pull out a chair for a woman it was called being a gentleman.


Interesting, I thought it was just being polite.


quote:


now if he does it, hes called a pig or chauvinist. 


In all of my 40+ years, I've never once heard someone call a man a pig or a chauvinist for being polite. I've seen people not be gracious by saying "thank you", but that's about it.


quote:


when a woman wants to be obedient to a man, society looks at her like shes not a real woman or something. 


Define "obedient" and why does it matter what others think/say unless the woman and man in question are making a spectacle of themselves publicly.

quote:


a man takes control over his woman, and society looks at him like he must be forcing her or she must be a victim.  


Define "taking control" and then read the post above.


quote:


so do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men and take control?


What makes a "real" man and why does he need to "take control"?

Times like this seem perfect for my favorite saying....Normal is relative. Real is also relative.

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 7:15:11 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

The use of etiquette and/or good manners never goes out of style, no matter your gender, sexual orientation, or D/s role.

In my mind, a dominant personality has an abundance of self confidence and could give a shit what others think; he/she does what seems most correct at the moment.

Now, if the OP had asked if societal trends were blurring gender lines and making it socially unacceptable for men to behave naturally in some circumstances, I would have to say yes. But I'd want to define all my terms first, I'm female and analytical like that.



I have to agree with ChatteParfaitt in that being gentlemen never goes out of style. I have noticed so many of they younger generation do not open car doors for their dates. Hell I do it for my sisters when they are riding with me. I wonder if they just were never taught chivalry by there parents?

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 7:38:43 PM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		Women are not responsible for the problems men have. Both men AND women seem to have some role/gender confusion because our society has changed rapidly. Women had to work to support ourselves and our families, because one income is generally not enough. Men generally do not feel they need to share in the "Second Shift" at home.
Women are angry because they work eight hours and come home and work another eight. I apologize in advance to anyone whose life is not like this, but as a mental health professional, I hear these compliants every day from women, that their men are not stepping up to the plate.

No, I dont think women have made it difficult for men to be men. Its called "taking responsibility for one's life".

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 9:04:32 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		naw...most younger men don`t have manners...

I guess Im a pig...I act like a gentleman outside my home hahah

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/16/2011 9:35:42 PM   
Fetters4U


Posts: 393
Joined: 5/25/2011
Status: offline 		Real men can't spell keesh!!

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/17/2011 1:26:43 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: texastgirl

i mean used to when a man would open a door or pull out a chair for a woman it was called being a gentleman. now if he does it, hes called a pig or chauvinist.  when a woman wants to be obedient to a man, society looks at her like shes not a real woman or something.  a man takes control over his woman, and society looks at him like he must be forcing her or she must be a victim.   so do you think society has made it hard for men to be real men and take control?

I didn't read the thread.  I may do so after I reply.

I'll have to ask MP if he's ever been called a pig or a chauvinist for opening a door for anybody.  I can't say that I've seen in happen in the ten years that we've been together.  It's not unusual at all for him to do that.  He does it for other men, too, if he happens to get to a door first.

I can't help you with the reaction that some submissive women get for chosen to submit.  It's not My area.

The main reason that I wanted to comment here is based on what some call the pendulum swinging too far the other way.  The problem was for a lot of years that what we in the kink world all do consensually, a number of people were doing and it really was abusive and women had no recourse.  Domestic violence was swept under the rug for far too long (child abuse was the very same way) and we as a society needed to fix that. 

We have to remember that we are the minority.  The laws that are on the books now, the resources available today, were definitely needed for a portion of society that was not us.  In My opinion, this is a concession that those of us involved in wiitwd need to make. 



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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/17/2011 3:21:15 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Men hold the door open so they can watch the woman's ass. Let's be real. I don't mind. I'll swish a little for you, baby.

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/17/2011 3:43:24 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt


I agree, but again that is an etiquette issue, not a gender one. I would be equally offended by a female doing the same.



I'm fully aware that it's not PC, but I think I would even be more offended by a female behaving like that, I know it's not fair but that is my personal perception.

The funny thing is that we get claims like

quote:

ORIGINAL: texastgirl

i mean used to when a man would open a door or pull out a chair for a woman it was called being a gentleman. now if he does it, hes called a pig or chauvinist.


yet I can HONESTLY say that I never ever witnessed anything like that, not ONCE, most of the posters say the same, they never encountered or witnessed it and manners are very appreciated in both males and females, regardless of gender. Makes me wonder where those urban myths come from of those wild bra burning feminists who will try to attack men for being courteous and polite? Are they also having pitchforks and big knives and try to cut the testicles off of men who show manners?
Not saying that it never has happened that a woman might be angry at a guy for showing manners, but it is such a rare occurrence, just like a strange man running up to a strange woman on the street and trying to hump her leg. It's the exception and not the rule and I wonder what agenda people have who are trying to sell us the exception as the rule...

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Those who do and those who don't!

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/17/2011 3:49:21 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
Men hold the door open so they can watch the woman's ass. Let's be real. I don't mind. I'll swish a little for you, baby.


I hate to say this hun, but most women ain't worth the look at. There's plenty of female flesh on outta shape bodies stuffed inside of rags walking around with an bad attitude. Seriously, what ever happen to somebody having a little self respect for themselves? People seem to be confused. Things such as dressing sexy is showing a lack of self respect for oneself and etc. I almost hate to say it, but it's rather bit of an American Mindset. Also one can dress sexy and not look like trailor park trash as well. There's plenty of women that need to take makeup lessons at Merle Norman or elseware.

More times than not, I'm holding the door open outta basic human respect...not for a look at the ass. The diets and crap loads of garbage people over eat or over indulge in...is mind blowing. There's too many people that don't take even a basic simple walk. You don't have to be hitting the Gym heavy every day to keep in decent shape. It's just the fact, that there's too many what I'm going to call American Fat Asses with very little sense of self respect...they simply don't care about themselves, their health, let alone appearence.

Vanity itself does not equate to narcissism. Yet, this is what many people are taught to believe. In fact, women will give other women who take care of themselves a fucking hard time. Seriously, women can be the biggest bitches to one another compared to how any man would treat a women. At the same time, if a man say shit about stuff he risks being labeled a Misogynist. nah nah.. the world is in perfect order for many people, no matter how backwards it might appear.

What I got to say anyways, doesn't matter, it's not some magic pill one can swallow as a cure to their own fucked up bullshit... Prozac and other drugs do a great job at making people numb to emotions and disturbing thoughts. Pretty sad, that if they actually got some physical activitiy and a better diet their moods and sense of self value..might just be a little more healthier.

Sorry hun, if what I'm saying here is too raw or out there. I'm just expressing my thoughts and opinion on it. There's not enough Ass ends worth the look at. LOL



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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/17/2011 4:17:59 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		aww Whippy you're turning it into a fat thread...

sunshine,
of the fat ass worth looking at.

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RE: do you think society has made it hard for men to be... - 6/17/2011 4:19:53 AM   
0ldhen


Posts: 2221
Joined: 12/27/2010
From: Henhouse in Trolltopia, Harleyville USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

aww Whippy you're turning it into a fat thread...

sunshine,
of the fat ass worth looking at.



Wanders in........admires Sunshines fine fine ass.........bites it.........runs like hellll.............

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Profile   Post #: 80
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