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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:39:05 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

yes, essentially and wholly meaningless...


Meaningless to you, maybe... I felt the outcome for certain states that have been traditionally RED or BLUE meaningful.  But whatever flips your particular bagel. Feel free to create one based on "The House" if you think that'd be more informative... I'm not bored enough. (shrugs)



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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:41:12 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Of course you do. That's the point. You share the ideological assumptions of the rankers.

But that doesn't make it objective, rather, just a shared bias/preference.


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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:41:46 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He thinks telling people that if they want the benefit of a union, that they have to pay the dues, is unfair. He thinks making people join a union is unfair. He thinks that this keeps people from freely associating.

What a piece of work you are! Who the fuck are you to tell people what I think? Do you fancy yourself some kind of fortune-teller?

I recommend you abandon the practice of putting words in my mouth unless you've got quotes to back them up.

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/16/2011 2:33:09 PM >

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:43:49 PM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		Right to work laws don't prohibit unions they just don't mandate them.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:44:55 PM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		I think it runs on the bases of smaller government more freedom.  

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:49:36 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Right to work laws don't prohibit unions they just don't mandate them.

They set a condition on a contract an employer can reach with his employees. Which is anti libertarian as it comes except of course the modern "libertarian" is really just a far right wing authoritarian pretending to want things that appeals to unsophisticated US voters.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:53:49 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Of course you do. That's the point. You share the ideological assumptions of the rankers.

But that doesn't make it objective, rather, just a shared bias/preference.




You really are presenting yourself as quite the "tool"... I stated "interesting", nothing more.

Had you bothered to actually LOOK at the chart, you'd have noticed that for 2008, of the Top 10 "free" states, 60% of were BLUE states!!!  So ummm... gee... how exactly does that fit my "idealogical assumptions" Gomer?!!

Try being more objective in the future... as it was YOU that made "ideological assumptions" here, not me.



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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:57:42 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Not at all--don't be so quick to assume the entire world is fighting you.

Doesn't matter which way it turns...it's still a set of ideological assumptions, not objective reality.

The name calling I'll just ignore.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:59:02 PM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		A libertarian is a conservative who smokes pot.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 1:59:54 PM   
Musicmystery


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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:01:45 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

A libertarian is a conservative who smokes pot.

That used to be true. I met a few of them during my time involved in the LP. Nowadays the banner carriers for libertarians, Ron Paul for instance, don't want to legalize pot and do want to poke governments nose into people's bedrooms and doctor's offices. They just blow smoke on shrinking government.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:02:29 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He thinks telling people that if they want the benefit of a union, that they have to pay the dues, is unfair. He thinks making people join a union is unfair. He thinks that this keeps people from freely associating.

Another deluded mind-reader. What a piece of work. Who the fuck are you to tell people what I think? Is this a fucking fortune-tellers convention or something? Or is it just that you haven't the integrity of a snake?



Again, facts and rational thinking are not that poster's strong points.  In many states/vocations, the "benefit of a Union" is that you're FORCED to join, and FORCED to pay dues -- or get no work. 



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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:06:14 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

...don't be so quick to assume



Pot meet Kettle.



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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:08:13 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

A libertarian is a conservative who smokes pot.


Or a Liberal with an Accountant.



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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:09:36 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

They set a condition on a contract an employer can reach with his employees. Which is anti libertarian as it comes except of course the modern "libertarian" is really just a far right wing authoritarian pretending to want things that appeals to unsophisticated US voters.

I believe the libertarian position would be that workers should be able to form unions to negotiate with employers, but that a line is crossed when contracts disallow a company from employing someone who is not a member of the union or does not wish to join.

Arm => swing => nose.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 6/16/2011 2:35:20 PM >

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:11:24 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:


Or a Liberal with an Accountant.


There is some truth to that.

Of course, you know the old joke: A conservative is a conservative until they get arrested and a liberal is a liberal until they get mugged.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:30:06 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think it runs on the bases of smaller government more freedom.  



Have you ever read a history book about the u.s. that was written for anyone past the fifth grade.
They talk about things like robber barons,anti-trust laws...that sort of thing.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:43:01 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

They set a condition on a contract an employer can reach with his employees. Which is anti libertarian as it comes except of course the modern "libertarian" is really just a far right wing authoritarian pretending to want things that appeals to unsophisticated US voters.

I believe the libertarian position would be that workers should be able to form unions to negotiate with employers, but that a line is crossed when contracts disallow a company from employing someone who is not a member of the union or does not wish to join.

Arm => swing => nose.

Libertarians would argue that it is perfectly ok for an employer to only hire men or Baptists or smokers or Republican party members. You're arguing that it wouldn't be ok for an employer to only hire union members or make union membership a condition of employment which just doesn't jive.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:43:14 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

I felt the outcome for certain states that have been traditionally RED or BLUE meaningful.



"traditionally red or blue states...
For fucks sake could you please come to the forum with some grasp of the subject before you post such moronic tripe.
Red and blue states as used by the news media to indicatate incumbent and challenger. This was in 1976. Raygun ronnie's win of 44 states prompted one well known reporter to remark that the election map looked like a swiming pool...blue for reagan. It has only been since 2000 that the two parties have opted to claim colors...11 years hardly makes a tradition...funny thing is that around the world the color scheem is reversed... red for liberals and blue for conservatives.

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RE: Freedom in the 50 States - 6/16/2011 2:49:03 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx



"Excuse me... Excuse me... Mr. Postman... I didn't order this bag of moronic bullshit -- that goes to thompsonx's house ! ! !"




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