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tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:10:42 AM)

Wyld, I agree religion shouldnt be a center for any of these camps. But, if these types of camps were the norm, then you would have seen more footage of many other camps doing the same type of teaching. Im glad that camp is closed.

Does that negate whats happening at the atheist camp? I dont believe so. Its a case of... do as I say, not as I do. They wanted a camp where children who are atheist, agnostic. free thinking, humanitarian, ect, could go without feeling like they didnt belong. And why do these children feel they dont belong? Because they dont believe like others and they are ridiculed for it. Yet what is the atheist camp teaching? ridicule.

Im in no way sanctioning what either group is doing to the children, which is perpetuating the hatred that most on both sides of the issue claim they abhor.



SternSkipper -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:19:54 AM)

quote:

How do you intend to legislate philosophical (political) point of view?


Yeah, that's crazy where on EARTH would they try to legislate philosophical/political or even religious points of view?



[image]local://upfiles/18637/1E88005DF3D94FF4A941C0151B95AFAF.jpg[/image]



DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 6:18:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

To many atheists, myself included, religion is an inherently ridiculous idea.

Ah, but you're not an Atheist. You're a Materialist. Lemme help you...

> Materialism asserts a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality.
> Religion asserts a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality.

See how that works? Birds of a feather.

> Atheism does NOT assert a metaphysical claim about the ultimate nature of reality.

So, you're not an Atheist. You're just a priest with a foot in his mouth.

K.

No you are quite clearly wrong. An atheist asserts that he does not believe in the existence of the supernatural. A materialist asserts that he does not believe in anything beyond the physical world. It is two ways to say the exact same thing.




DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 6:24:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


Bleh. Not only do you not know the difference between philosophy and science, you don't even appear to know what philosophy of science is.

Did you not even bother reading your own link?
quote:

Finally, another approach often cited in debates of scientific skepticism against controversial movements like creationism, is methodological naturalism. Its main point is that a difference between natural and supernatural explanations should be made, and that science should be restricted methodologically to natural explanations.[citation needed] That the restriction is merely methodological (rather than ontological) means that science should not consider supernatural explanations itself, but should not claim them to be wrong either. Instead, supernatural explanations should be left a matter of personal belief outside the scope of science. Methodological naturalism maintains that proper science requires strict adherence to empirical study and independent verification as a process for properly developing and evaluating explanations for observable phenomena.[58] The absence of these standards, arguments from authority, biased observational studies and other common fallacies are frequently cited by supporters of methodological naturalism as criteria for the dubious claims they criticize not to be true science.

So it appears your own source agrees I know what I'm talking about and you don't have a clue.


quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Real science follows the data. It does not exclude possibilities on the basis of quirky doctrinal beliefs about what is "natural" and acceptable to the faith.

I've left out your comment, because the mere fact that you would argue with that quote says all that needs to be said.

K.

You still have no clue what science is and that is sort of scary.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you allow for the possibility of supernatural intervention you cannot do science because you cannot trust your data. Science therefore assumes the supernatural does not exist and there has yet to be any data contradicting that basic assumption.



Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 8:48:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So it appears your own source agrees I know what I'm talking about and you don't have a clue.

Focus on the word "of" in "philosophy of science." You're not talking about philosophy of science at all. You don't know the fucking difference between science and philosophy.

DomKen: Science is materialism
DomKen: Materialism is philosophy

"Science is materialism" + "Materialism is philosophy" = "Science is philosophy"

That's what you're arguing for. And once you get to that point, it doesn't matter what the philosophy is. Creationism, materialism, take your pick. Same corrupt foolishness, different religion. Try to wrap your priestly little head around the fact that science is science, not fucking philosophy, yours or anyone else's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

No matter how many times you chant that same old faux excuse for your faith, the fact remains that to do real science you have to be willing to follow the data wherever it leads. You can't do science if you have to rule out certain possibilities because they conflict with some crazy cult's doctrines. Once around the block with that kind of crap was enough, thank you.

K.



DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 9:52:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So it appears your own source agrees I know what I'm talking about and you don't have a clue.

Focus on the word "of" in "philosophy of science." You're not talking about philosophy of science at all. You don't know the fucking difference between science and philosophy.

DomKen: Science is materialism
DomKen: Materialism is philosophy

"Science is materialism" + "Materialism is philosophy" = "Science is philosophy"

You're conflating my use of shorthand with statement of logic. That is obviously incorrect. If you want me to be wordy so as to not confuse your poor little brain, science is materialistic in the sense that it only concerns it self with the domain of observable phenomena.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

No matter how many times you chant that same old faux excuse for your faith, the fact remains that to do real science you have to be willing to follow the data wherever it leads. You can't do science if you have to rule out certain possibilities because they conflict with some crazy cult's doctrines. Once around the block with that kind of crap was enough, thank you.

K.


You're simply wrong. If you allow for the supernatural no data means anything.

If you think not then tell me how to interpret data while accounting for the supernatural.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:02:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

So it appears your own source agrees I know what I'm talking about and you don't have a clue.

Focus on the word "of" in "philosophy of science." You're not talking about philosophy of science at all. You don't know the fucking difference between science and philosophy.

DomKen: Science is materialism
DomKen: Materialism is philosophy

"Science is materialism" + "Materialism is philosophy" = "Science is philosophy"

You're conflating my use of shorthand with statement of logic. That is obviously incorrect. If you want me to be wordy so as to not confuse your poor little brain, science is materialistic in the sense that it only concerns it self with the domain of observable phenomena.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

No matter how many times you chant that same old faux excuse for your faith, the fact remains that to do real science you have to be willing to follow the data wherever it leads. You can't do science if you have to rule out certain possibilities because they conflict with some crazy cult's doctrines. Once around the block with that kind of crap was enough, thank you.

K.


You're simply wrong. If you allow for the supernatural no data means anything.

If you think not then tell me how to interpret data while accounting for the supernatural.
Think in terms of probabilities.

With strict materialism, you have something like this:
Strong wind ----> trees bend (empirical observation)

With Supernatural science, you have:
Strong wind;
Little green fairies with invisible ropes;
God;
Trees lean away from wind because wind poison to trees;
or any number of other goofy explanations.

Great Leap Backwards!



Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:08:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're simply wrong. If you allow for the supernatural no data means anything.

Your definition of "supernatural" is purely dogmatic. It arises from doctrine. In actual fact, there may be many things that are not "supernatural" at all but which are branded as such because they violate the creed of your little cult. The fact is, the only thing you and your fucking Sacred College are good for is preventing our knowledge of reality from expanding beyond what is acceptable to your faith.

K.



mnottertail -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:09:25 AM)

Hippykinkster:

Do the trees moving make the wind blow?

Ransom Of Red Chief



Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:23:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

With Supernatural science...

It does not lend strength to someone's position to have idiots supporting it. [:D]

K.



SternSkipper -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:24:57 AM)

quote:

Every Atheist I have talked to face to face claim to prove there is no God. It is like talking to a Seventh Day Advendest. Both are evangelical to the point of being obnoxious. And note I said face to face not accusing anyone here.


Go to New York or Boston then... That's NEVER ONCE been anything even close to what my encounters with atheists resulted in. I have never heard one say more than they didn't believe in god or refused to accept the belief in god.
     It does apparently prove that there are atheists out there that are more or less idiots, presuming what you say is true.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:40:41 AM)

I've spoken to a quite a few aetheists and all of them were NOT in your face about it at all.

They believe or don't believe what they want and let others do what they want as a live and let live kinda thing.

Their only problem is when someone tries to "cure" them as Evangelicals are wont to do.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:44:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

With Supernatural science...

It does not lend strength to someone's position to have idiots supporting it. [:D]

K.

Agreed. Those who support Supernatural Science should really rethink their decision to enlist you... [8D]



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 10:48:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hippykinkster:

Do the trees moving make the wind blow?

Ransom Of Red Chief
Gazing deeply into my chalice, the patterns in the port dregs tell me that you will have an exciting future as Michelle Bachmann's Science advisor.



Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:08:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Agreed. Those who support Supernatural Science should really rethink their decision to enlist you... [8D]

Well let's see. I raise an objection to all forms of "brand" science as corruptions, be it "Creation science," "Materialist science," or whatever else. And you caricature that position as advocating "Supernatural science." What are we to make of this?

Looks to me like those who support "Supernatural Logic" have found their man. [:D]

K.



Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:14:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

That's NEVER ONCE been anything even close to what my encounters with atheists resulted in. I have never heard one say more than they didn't believe in god or refused to accept the belief in god.

It does apparently prove that there are atheists out there that are more or less idiots, presuming what you say is true.

My experiences "out there" have been the same as yours. As far as I can tell, they're mostly just in here.

K.



DomKen -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:21:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You're simply wrong. If you allow for the supernatural no data means anything.

Your definition of "supernatural" is purely dogmatic. It arises from doctrine. In actual fact, there may be many things that are not "supernatural" at all but which are branded as such because they violate the creed of your little cult. The fact is, the only thing you and your fucking Sacred College are good for is preventing our knowledge of reality from expanding beyond what is acceptable to your faith.

K.

If there is data that supports your claims present it. If not...



Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:45:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

If there is data that supports your claims present it.

You're the data. [:D]

K.






DerangedUnit -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:55:44 PM)

i've only ever encountered one other atheist(besides myself) and i can tell you that we both tend to ignore theists... other than making the occasional sardonic comment when approached or watching tv... i wasn't always like that though there was a time which i sought to "open their eyes", mostly just because i thought i would get beat less... but then i was 3 and by about 5 i had completely given up hope in humanities ability to be rational.



Kirata -> RE: Atheists fed up? Believe it! - Guest Voices - The Washington Post (6/21/2011 12:57:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Every Atheist I have talked to face to face claim to prove there is no God. It is like talking to a Seventh Day Advendest. Both are evangelical to the point of being obnoxious.

I don't think you're really meeting Atheists. Atheists have nothing to sell. That kind of problem just doesn't arise with them. It only arises when you start getting committed Materialists dressing up in little "atheist" costumes to proselytize the deceived multitudes in behalf of their faith.

K.




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