"Hostilities"

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TheHeretic -> "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:05:39 AM)
The New York Times is reporting that the top lawyers at the Pentagon, and the top lawyers at the Department of Justice were overruled by President Obama, when he decided that there are no "hostilities" in Libya. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/world/africa/18powers.html?_r=2 It isn't hostile to commit overt acts of war, if you do it by remote control? It is ludicrous on its face. Why even take this route at all? Congress would codify his promise that we won't be sending ground forces, and sign him a check. Instead, the President seems determined to aim straight for the Constitutional cow pattie. Why?

pahunkboy -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:10:05 AM)
This is the most crazy thing. Congress is ir-relevant. Obama is king czar.

mnottertail -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:18:43 AM)
It is interesting to say the least, the war powers act is a poorly written punitive encroachment on presidential power. It is likely that the legislators sueing will be found to have no standing, same as last time. Supreme court refused to hear it, last time, so they pretty much are agreeing there is no standing, so legislators are gonna have to quit fuckin around with the other crapola they are harranguing about and fix the fuckin thing.

TheHeretic -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:33:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail It is interesting to say the least, the war powers act is a poorly written punitive encroachment on presidential power. And there is certainly a case to be made for that, Ron, but the administration isn't making it. They are claiming that the whole question is moot, because drone strikes against the leadership of a foreign power are not hostile. Does it pass the "straight face test," for you?

Lucylastic -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:34:49 AM)
Threatening to cut the funding is just going to do what?

mnottertail -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:39:22 AM)
As much as 'natural born citizen' needs to go to SCOTUS. Essentially, we are in a notch between treaty obligations, constitutional interpretations, checks and balances power struggle, political theater, and probably a whole lot of fuck you clowns, what have you done for me? So.....

mnottertail -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:43:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Threatening to cut the funding is just going to do what? Dismantle the Department of defense and the military. Cuz it is coming out of their current operating budget. So. End of Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanemo, and more, and that will be thrown directly on the congress in the worst possible light for political theater.

Aylee -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 10:59:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail It is interesting to say the least, the war powers act is a poorly written punitive encroachment on presidential power. That is an interesting take since the power to declare war lies with Congress. quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Why even take this route at all? Congress would codify his promise that we won't be sending ground forces, and sign him a check. Instead, the President seems determined to aim straight for the Constitutional cow pattie. Why? I think that he does not really respect US tradition but is willing to support anything 'UNish.' What the humanitarian viewpoint does is breakdown the idea of national sovereignty. We do not really have any legitimate interest in what happens in Libya. What happens in Libya stays in Libya as long as it does not cross the border. Nor does anyone else have legitimate interests. There is a school of thought that really wants a world government and does not see a use for all of these individual nations. The UN fulfills this desire. President Obama very much seems to fall into this school of thought and desires to follow UN dictates/decisions.

Lucylastic -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:07:42 AM)
If Libya had been behind a bombing plot(oh you mean it has been) then yes it is of interest to the USA. Were Libya (ghadaffi) decide to support terrorists who god forbid hit the US...the blame on Obama would be overwhelming. Especially from the right I was told by an american, I believe he is a rightie too, that the UN is run by the USA, so you cant have it all ways. UN NATO etc are not running your country. PUHLEEZE. You want allies but want to suddenly stop? Trying to get out of it and not living up to the treaties is a cowardly thought.

pahunkboy -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:19:05 AM)
Obama ran on ending the wars. Not making new ones. We have to be there tho-- unless we control the oil-- the dollar is done. If we do control the oil-- we can stall the fiat out abit longer.

mnottertail -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:20:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail It is interesting to say the least, the war powers act is a poorly written punitive encroachment on presidential power. That is an interesting take since the power to declare war lies with Congress. Not at all, no war has been tried to be declared in Libya, or is contemplated, that I know of.

TheHeretic -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:32:53 AM)
One possibility that comes to mind is that Libya would make a damn fine place for some big new bases in the region. We all know how the President feels about reversing on his earlier declarations, and it's much easier to put those forces in later, when all he has to break is a promise, instead of a law.

mnottertail -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:40:23 AM)
Nah, you are at least a W behind that curve. http://www.moroccoboard.com/viewpoint/60-ahmed-tb/288-africom-base-in-tan-tan-morocco-confirmed In fact, sneaking up in that area has been going on prior to 9/11.

TheHeretic -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:46:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Not at all, no war has been tried to be declared in Libya, or is contemplated, that I know of. Not on paper, Ron, but we do seem to be saying it with hunter/killers drones firing missiles at anywhere Kuhdaffy might be. Unless Boehner can persuade the President not to step in the pile of shit he's walking into, the phrase, "impeachable offense" is going to start getting thrown around. Does he really need that distraction? In this case, it's going to be a lot easier to get permission than forgiveness.

mnottertail -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:47:16 AM)
LOL. I believe he will wipe his impeachment with his entire ass, as Clinton did. And while I agree with you that he has a readymade ok from congress for the asking, and it would be an easy road to hoe, something else is afoot for some reason.

Musicmystery -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 11:53:27 AM)
quote: the power to declare war lies with Congress That's right. Presidents should not be declaring war lies. With or without Congress. Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iran/contra, Granada, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq..... War is bad enough without the lying bullshit from our "leaders."

TheHeretic -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 12:08:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail LOL. I believe he will wipe his impeachment with his entire ass, as Clinton did. If it ever went that far, Ron, you are probably right, but why even pass out the talking point, and make a bed he's going to have to crawl into? Doesn't he have enough on the plate already?

mnottertail -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 12:10:19 PM)
Again, something is afoot that we ain't getting yet. Cuz there is no real stand to take for him here, hes got all sorts of chances to blast congress coming up, and at vote getting time. If he doesn't want a good crisis to go to waste as rushfelchers would have it.....this can't even be made into a crisis that I can see. (anacoluthon) Something of massive mystical misdirection is what I am feeling, but can't see what the trick is gonna be.

pahunkboy -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 12:28:04 PM)
I do think- we had more peace under Bush... because we were in less wars then. (tho- they both seem to like wars equally)

Musicmystery -> RE: "Hostilities" (6/18/2011 12:30:22 PM)
Fewer, but not less.

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