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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:09:46 PM   
Arpig


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Very, very true. "Tests" remind me of high school, when a girl would get her friend to hit on her boyfriend to see if he would cheat. Smacks of entrapment.

quote:

How do they treat the waitstaff at the restaurant?
Cute story time!!
When my Ex's parents went on their first date, he wanted to impress her, so he left a $5 dollar tip (this was back in the 50s...that was a hefty tip). When they left the restaurant, she handed him the $5 and said "The waitress was shitty, she didn't earn this".
He says that was the moment he decided he wanted to marry her.


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:10:09 PM   
DesFIP


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The problem with someone else sitting in judgment, demanding you prove him/her wrong about you is that they've pre-judged you. And who wants to be with someone prejudiced? Beyond that, what it proves about them is that they have trust issues, and if they're bound and determined to find a reason to not trust you, they will.

Eventually they will have the gloomy satisfaction of saying to themselves that they were right all along not to trust you, without ever acknowledging that their lack of trust is what made the other person give up and stop trying. That they caused their worst fear to come true. Most of us have better sense than to jump through hoop after hoop, while knowing that the reward for successfully jumping through that hoop is to have it raised higher and higher until you can't jump through it.


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:12:26 PM   
Arpig


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To littlewonder & NuevaVida
Then what word would you use to express the concept I'm expressing?

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:22:30 PM   
tj444


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Well, i dont have any problem with anyone seeing how I am (warts and all), they can take me or leave me. I want to be accepted and loved for who i really am, not to pretend to be someone cuz that is what he is looking for. And I want to see him as he really is, warts and all.... just as long as he doesnt snore...

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:27:23 PM   
Arpig


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Not true DesFIP. My Ex had & still has some major trust issues regarding men, I had to earn her trust. Over the last 20 years of marriage, divorce, schizophrenia, and heavy drinking, I have given her plenty off little opportunities to decide I wasn't worthy of her trust if she was looking for an excuse, but obviously she wasn't. Once I had proved myself trustworthy in her eyes, it would have taken a major breach of that trust to have her revoke it. The few men she decides to really trust, she trusts fiercely. 

She trusts me completely. I have a key to her house, I know the PIN to all her bank cards, I know where she keeps her stash of emergency cash, I have my own room at her house so I can stay the night when its more convenient for me (I don't need to ask), she asks my opinion of the various men she dates, she asks my opinion for all her major life decisions.

Sometimes a person who starts out with negative expectations really does want to be wrong.


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:29:29 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

just as long as he doesnt snore...
Ah shit!!

Scratches tj off the list.......


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:33:28 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

just as long as he doesnt snore...
Ah shit!!

Scratches tj off the list.......


hurmph... you have a women on a list.. like they are groceries? you... you.. typical man, you!

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:40:10 PM   
Arpig


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I actually have 4 such lists....

1. Might do me
2. Probably won't do me
3. Won't do me
4. The species is toast if we're the last two people alive.


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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 9:55:00 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

To littlewonder & NuevaVida
Then what word would you use to express the concept I'm expressing?


I don't know but for me I like the word synchronicity. For me there is no trying, no proving, no working at it, no looking at the person and hoping or thinking or wanting...it is either there or it isn't. It either happens all on its own, naturally, organically or not at all.



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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 10:21:16 PM   
NuevaVida


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Hi Arpig, if below is the concept you are referencing...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Job interview? Prove you are suitable for the position.  - I am interviewing them as much as they are me. They have to show me they're a place I want to work.  It is not an intimate/emotional/romantic involvement. I am doing a job for them and they are giving me money for it.  An interview is us feeling each other out to see if we're a good fit.  In every great job I've had, I didn't care (during the interview phase) if I got the job or not.  It was simply a discussion to see if they wanted to pay me for my skills and if I wanted to give them my skills for money (in my mind that's what it was, anyway). It sure makes for a relaxing interview when coming at it with that approach.

First date? Prove you have something to interest me, other than your tits..  - again, I didn't have to prove anything on my first date with him, nor him to me.  We got together, we talked, we laughed, ate, drank, walked.  And then we continued talking and seeing each other, showing each other who we were.  If we didn't like what we saw, we'd have moved on.  I was totally ok if he didn't want to continue with me.  I didn't need to be in a relationship - but it just so happened he was so cool (and he thought I was so cool) that we made a commitment to have a relationship with each other.  The men I went out with prior to him, I had the same approach.  We weren't compatible, acknowledged that, and moved on.

Driver's license? Prove you know the laws of the road. - In my view this is a completely separate concept.  Exams are not always subjective (the paper exam for a driving test isn't, for example).  I want the privilege of driving so I need to learn how and to pass my state's exam to show I'm not going to go out there and cause accidents.

Need a loan? Prove you can make the payments. - Again, a loan is a privilege and subject to the banks qualifications.  Banks are looking for risk factors.  They don't take the time to get to know the individuals applying for the loan, to determine if they're really a good person or not.  They have risk assessments (same with insurance companies - it's all about risks) - so going back to my concerns with the word "prove" when it comes to relationships, I'm not sizing him up looking for risks.  I'm spending time with him and observing who he is - the good, the bad, and everything in between.

My list could go on and on...the point is that we are constantly proving ourselves to others. You prove yourself in myriad ways daily, and you require others to prove themselves to you as well. We are constantly judging people's worthiness in one context or another. To claim otherwise is either being dishonest or naive.



You can call me naive, Arpig.  I'm totally ok with that.  The way I live my life is working really well for me right now.  I simply don't view people as potential risk factors.  It's like I told the Mister - eventually we'll come to really know each other and trust in what we've shown each other.  Time together, observing how we handle things and treat friends, family, strangers and each other goes a long way in painting that picture.

I read something recently - if you look for something to be wrong, you'll find it.  Same as if you look for something to be right.  Me?  I just observe and experience.


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 10:22:36 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I don't know but for me I like the word synchronicity. For me there is no trying, no proving, no working at it, no looking at the person and hoping or thinking or wanting...it is either there or it isn't. It either happens all on its own, naturally, organically or not at all.




You say it so much more succinctly than I.  This was exactly my experience with the Mister.


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 10:23:52 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

I will see her for her compatibility or not...
And thus...she proves herself to be compatible or not.

I realize that its the word "prove" that most are objecting to, but the OP is correct, we do it all the time.

Job interview? Prove you are suitable for the position.
First date? Prove you have something to interest me, other than your tits..
Driver's license? Prove you know the laws of the road.
Need a loan? Prove you can make the payments.

My list could go on and on...the point is that we are constantly proving ourselves to others. You prove yourself in myriad ways daily, and you require others to prove themselves to you as well. We are constantly judging people's worthiness in one context or another. To claim otherwise is either being dishonest or naive.




This, and as Julia explained it, is how I think of it. I have never minded anyone expressing that I need to prove myself. It doesn't bother me.

Now, how I do it........they gotta do the time.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 6/18/2011 10:24:41 PM >


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 10:47:26 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

The way I live my life is working really well for me right now. I simply don't view people as potential risk factors.
Now, now, I didn't say anything about risk factors, simply that one does prove, or show, or demonstrate (or whatever word feels the best to you) to others the type of person one is.

In your example of the first date, you said "If we didn't like what we saw, we'd have moved on." Therefore, there was a second because he had proved himself to be somebody of interest.

quote:

I just observe and experience.
And based on what you observe and experience you form an opinion of the person. In effect, they have proved themselves to be good, bad, or whatever it is you end up judging them as. Its a matter of the connotations the word "prove" has to you, which is why I asked what word you would use to describe it. I'm not wedded to the word. its the word used in the OP, and in the thread from which this one sprung, so I am using it. It's the concept that is important, not the word used to describe it.


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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 10:58:38 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

I don't know but for me I like the word synchronicity. For me there is no trying, no proving, no working at it, no looking at the person and hoping or thinking or wanting...it is either there or it isn't. It either happens all on its own, naturally, organically or not at all.
Now, here its me that has a problem with the word chosen. To me "synchronicity" means an apparently relevant, but random, temporal coincidence between unrelated events. To me it implies that while the coincidence seems meaningful, it actually isn't.

I think you are in fact describing what I'm describing, but the use of "prove" is implying to you that there is a conscious process at work. It can be, for example tj is quite consciously seeking proof. But it does not have to be, and I believe that it usually isn't a conscious thing. In your case, if I'm understanding you correctly, you are just waiting to see if that indefinable "it" that makes a person compatible with you exists, if the spark or chemistry is there. If it is there, then the person can be said to have effectively "proven" to be of interest, he has "it".


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Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 11:08:12 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

The way I live my life is working really well for me right now. I simply don't view people as potential risk factors.
Now, now, I didn't say anything about risk factors, simply that one does prove, or show, or demonstrate (or whatever word feels the best to you) to others the type of person one is.

In your example of the first date, you said "If we didn't like what we saw, we'd have moved on." Therefore, there was a second because he had proved himself to be somebody of interest.

quote:

I just observe and experience.
And based on what you observe and experience you form an opinion of the person. In effect, they have proved themselves to be good, bad, or whatever it is you end up judging them as. Its a matter of the connotations the word "prove" has to you, which is why I asked what word you would use to describe it. I'm not wedded to the word. its the word used in the OP, and in the thread from which this one sprung, so I am using it. It's the concept that is important, not the word used to describe it.



You didn't say anything about risk factor, but that's what proving is - weighing your findings against the risk.  That's how I see it, anyway.

He didn't "prove" himself to be someone of interest to me, he simply sparked my interest. 

But hey - you can use the word, and I can not use the word, and the world will keep on turnin'.  It's not a huge deal to me - I simply prefer to use other words and descriptors because of the connotations that word has to me.


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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/18/2011 11:20:47 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

I simply prefer to use other words and descriptors because of the connotations that word has to me.
That's why I asked what word you would prefer to use. In the date context you use "sparked" an interest. I have no problem with that word in that context, it doesn't apply for trustworthiness, or Domliness, but I still maintain that we are using different words to describe the same process.

The process whereby we determine if a person is somebody we wish to be friends with, or in a romantic relationship with, or business partners with...whatever the context of the interaction. We do judge (or determine or "find out", or "see")  based on the person's words and behaviour if that person is a fit for whatever sort of relationship they are a potential for.

How many times on these boards do we see the advice "Meet face to face and see if there is actually anything there, see if you click". It is this "seeing" that is being referred to in the OP (well, at least that's what I think is being referred to).


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Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/19/2011 6:36:42 AM   
littlewonder


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quote:

How many times on these boards do we see the advice "Meet face to face and see if there is actually anything there, see if you click". It is this "seeing" that is being referred to in the OP (well, at least that's what I think is being referred to).


When I met Master I didn't even go into it thinking that. He asked me for two years to meet him. I never had any interest in meeting him. One day I finally said yes because to be honest I wanted a mini vacation and figured if nothing else I'd get a free coffee outta the deal and a weekend away in a great city lol.

I never even went in thinking I'd see if there was anything there. I just met him because I figured "what the hell..why not?" LOL



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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/19/2011 6:46:27 AM   
sunshinemiss


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I think the only thing that someone has to "prove" to me is that he deserves me. Is that vain? Hmmm... Either way. If he pulls me in, I will give my absolute all, my heart and soul, I'll follow him to the end of the earth, but without that, I'm not submissive. Heck no.

Actually, there are two things that I watch for. His relationships with alcohol and with joy. Those two (one in the negative, one in the positive) are probably the most important to me.

Makes sense in my head!

best,
sunshine

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/19/2011 7:17:52 AM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
When I met Master I didn't even go into it thinking that. He asked me for two years to meet him. I never had any interest in meeting him. One day I finally said yes because to be honest I wanted a mini vacation and figured if nothing else I'd get a free coffee outta the deal and a weekend away in a great city lol.

I never even went in thinking I'd see if there was anything there. I just met him because I figured "what the hell..why not?" LOL

When I used to meet guys for coffee meetings, I found that when I hadnt gotten in deep with them and had any expectations about how they were, those were the best converstations (but none lead to anything further, but I usually did enjoy the convo).

The guys that I sort of got into online with, and started to form some picture of them, and especially if i had any expectaions, those meetings I usually came away from disappointed.

So I try really hard now to be neutral about someone online and my only expectation is that we will have something to talk about to each other.

I dont do coffee meetings anymore tho, if i meet someone we would have to do something more than that, even if its just going for a walk.

But I have to say, meeting for an hour or two is very different than meeting someone for a whole weekend, imo, the more time you have with someone, the more you can see them as they are and the more of a bond you develop. My grip about coffee/short meetings is sometimes it takes a few dates to develop "chemistry" (for lack of a better word). I dont really trust the love-at-first-sight thing, there has to be more there to create something very long lasting (or it just becomes a hot fling).

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RE: Proving Yourself - 6/19/2011 9:57:01 AM   
Icarys


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quote:

You can call me naive, Arpig. I'm totally ok with that. The way I live my life is working really well for me right now. I simply don't view people as potential risk factors. It's like I told the Mister - eventually we'll come to really know each other and trust in what we've shown each other. Time together, observing how we handle things and treat friends, family, strangers and each other goes a long way in painting that picture.

I read something recently - if you look for something to be wrong, you'll find it. Same as if you look for something to be right. Me? I just observe and experience.

You and a few others as I see it have their heads, not in the sky among the clouds nor stuck in the sand but right where they should be..firmly planted on your capable shoulders with feet placed forward making wise steps.

Naive? Not in the slightest. You grasp for and reach the greater good IMHO.


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