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RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 6:42:52 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
it really is about shutting up that little voice and saying to youreself 'im gonna go for it. im gonna put myself squarely in his hands and let go' believe me its the most wonderful feeling, its really freeing and the sub in you will float off into sub space and youll realise youve arrived in that hedonistic place youve been craving all this while.

I have to say I really disagree with the above, lally. One of the biggest things in my favor is listening to that voice inside myself, and paying attention to what it's telling me. Coming from years of shutting that voice up, I can tell you that only led to trouble and heartache for me.

I let go, gradually. I have no floaty subspace in letting go, particularly when ignoring what my gut is telling me. There's no magical moment for me, where I make a flat decision that from here on out, I'm totally and completely in his hands. It's an evolution. And it doesn't create subspace for me.

Not discounting your experience, but since you said "you", I wanted to say, Nope, not me.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 21

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 6:48:04 PM

KnightofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

I've been hesitant to post this topic, but i've been having some interesting conversations with a wonderfully insightful member of CM, which sorta lead up to the issue of someone attempting to internalize their role.
in my last relationship, i knew deep down that i wanted his ownership to be more concrete, but my own fear and insecurities often got in the way. i was often in a tangle in my own brain, trying to figure out how to get around them. =p so to the s-types, have you ever run into issues with "internalizing"? you self-define as something, but you know that sometimes you aren't living up to your potential or you're defeating yourself? how to you help yourself move forward?

Sometimes ones fear and insecurities orginate from one's own belief in self. You may want his ownership. But do you believe yourself worth of such ownership? If you don't believe yourself worthy... how can you not be fearful and insecure?

It's has been my belief that one of the fundamental blocks in building a strong foundation of ownership is the confidence of the slave in themself to be the slave desired by their Master.

If you work towards the confidence and esteem of self.... you just might see the fears and insecurities melt away!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 22

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 7:13:40 PM

leadership527

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Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I have to say I really disagree with the above, lally. One of the biggest things in my favor is listening to that voice inside myself, and paying attention to what it's telling me. Coming from years of shutting that voice up, I can tell you that only led to trouble and heartache for me.

OK, I'm going to half-disagree with you Nueva. Had Carol listened to that little voice we would be be vanilla. When I said to Carol, "That's it. I'm done doing this alone." she had to make some choices. She chose to leap rather than look. She would assert that her act of blind faith and optimism worked out well.

Sometimes the little voice is right and sometimes not. The trick is in knowing the difference. Are these fears actually founded in reality or are they made up from whole cloth?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 23

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 7:17:52 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

OK, I'm going to half-disagree with you Nueva. Had Carol listened to that little voice we would be be vanilla. When I said to Carol, "That's it. I'm done doing this alone." she had to make some choices. She chose to leap rather than look. She would assert that her act of blind faith and optimism worked out well.

Sometimes the little voice is right and sometimes not. The trick is in knowing the difference. Are these fears actually founded in reality or are they made up from whole cloth?

Agreed, but I don't ignore the voice or shut it up, as lally suggested. I listen to it, and then investigate. It's talking to me for a reason, even if the reason is just to validate where I'm going is the right place.

I never ignore my inner voice anymore. If it brings up a concern, I ask the Mister about it and we talk about it. Stifling myself is no longer an option. I'm not saying that listening to my inner voice automatically means what it's telling me is the end all - only that it needs to be heard.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 24

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 7:28:09 PM

Kalista07

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Joined: 7/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Sometimes ones fear and insecurities orginate from one's own belief in self. You may want his ownership. But do you believe yourself worth of such ownership? If you don't believe yourself worthy... how can you not be fearful and insecure?

It's has been my belief that one of the fundamental blocks in building a strong foundation of ownership is the confidence of the slave in themself to be the slave desired by their Master.

If you work towards the confidence and esteem of self.... you just might see the fears and insecurities melt away!

I swear to all that is holy I am going to stop reading KightofMists posts when I'm having these kind of nights where I'm barely keeping it together as it is.

I was having a text conversation with my therapist, who is into this type of relationship that you all are, (I must say you all as I'm not in any relationship with any person at this time...

) about nearly this same topic. I have this tendency to internalize stuff, it works well for me I know what the payoff are already for it. Hell in my last D/s relationship (marriage) it worked so well as a matter of fact that I just took all of the responsibility for every one in the house that way no one had to accept their part in any of it.
The problem with that is I can convince myself that I honestly suck at being a submissive or a slave or a whatever until I'm sitting here reading certain people's posts who happen to challenge me. And then I feel as though the damn that I've worked so hard to maintain is about to break.
For me personally (again only for me) internalizing is a cop out because it allows me to not have to feel or communicate to anyone else what is going on. That is of course, assuming there are other people around to communicate with.
I have no idea if this makes any sense or not. It made sense in my sleep deprived head.
Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 25

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 7:38:57 PM

KnightofMists

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Kalista... it mades sense....

Sometimes one needs to learn to carry their own shit and let others carry theirs!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 26

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 7:41:16 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07
For me personally (again only for me) internalizing is a cop out because it allows me to not have to feel or communicate to anyone else what is going on.

Just for the record Kali, I think I understand what you're saying but that is a very different sort of "internalization" than what I talk about when I say "Carol internalized her role as property."

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 27

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 7:55:19 PM

Kalista07

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Joined: 7/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Just for the record Kali, I think I understand what you're saying but that is a very different sort of "internalization" than what I talk about when I say "Carol internalized her role as property."

Jeff, I totally agree that it is different. And I in no way meant to insinuate that it was the same. I probably should not have even posted on this thread....
My apologies,
Kali

_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 28

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 10:43:55 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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I get the hairbrush.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 29

RE: Internalizing - 6/20/2011 11:08:52 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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From: The dog house
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I just realized that my reply probably won't make sense to a lot of people. not everybody has read the Communication Strategies thread. Hanners and I have regular sit downs for serious talks. When we do this I brush her hair. So when I feel the need to have a serious talk, I get the hairbrush. when she feels the need, she tells me to get the hairbrush.

So in effect, what I was saying is I talk to Hanners about it.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

Post #: 30

RE: Internalizing - 6/21/2011 6:19:55 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
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Kalista, that makes sense

for me, the cop out is when i say "but i have important opinions!" or something like that. my last relationship just didn't really have enough time to fully get to where we both wanted to go, but my definition of my self was hugely tied into expressing opinions and asserting the functionality of my brainwaves, and i was afraid of losing that. but nothing M ever did suggested that he didn't care about my brain. =p on the contrary, he saw me as an asset.
i was also afraid that people were paying too much attention to what we were doing, and would notice that we were "weird," so avoiding being seen as weird was a cop out for me, too. in reality, nobody was paying nearly as much attention to us as i thought they were -- being overly self-conscious can be a headache, for sure. =p

as i started getting beyond a lot of that, i was able to grow and communicate more effectively.

Heather -- we used to have complex conversations while brushing his hair, too. =p so i can relate to that.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 6/21/2011 6:20:41 AM >

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

Post #: 31

RE: Internalizing - 6/21/2011 6:56:53 PM

aromanholiday

Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
I've been hesitant to post this topic, but i've been having some interesting conversations with a wonderfully insightful member of CM, which sorta lead up to the issue of someone attempting to internalize their role.
in my last relationship, i knew deep down that i wanted his ownership to be more concrete, but my own fear and insecurities often got in the way. i was often in a tangle in my own brain, trying to figure out how to get around them. =p so to the s-types, have you ever run into issues with "internalizing"? you self-define as something, but you know that sometimes you aren't living up to your potential or you're defeating yourself? how to you help yourself move forward?

I would turn to my dominant or master for help with it and if I didn't have a dominant or master at the time, I'd do my very best on my own (I'm a geek, so I'd google my problem and see what the oracle advised) but without too much hope for success. I don't think this is something you can do entirely on your own, even if you are deeply inspired to. You (generic) need something or someone else, something outside you to "spur you on," so to speak. If you could deal with this all by yourself, you probably wouldn't be submissive. In the context of a relationship it's easier, not just because you get assistance but also because your motivation to change is much stronger. The stronger the person you associate with, the stronger will be your motivation to change, I believe--for a number of obvious reasons. :)

What is an example of intermalizing, by the way? You use the word in a way that is different from what I am used to. I normally use it or see it used as the process of taking another person inside of you, absorbing them. I internalized my last master: when he died, I knew, if I consulted myself, exactly what he'd want me to do in amost any circumstance.

_____________________________

"Isn't it odd how we misunderstand the hidden unity of kindness and cruelty?"

My profile is not turned off. It is broken and I am too lazy to make a new one.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 32

RE: Internalizing - 6/21/2011 7:56:47 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

Heather -- we used to have complex conversations while brushing his hair, too. =p so i can relate to that.

It just works, doesn't it? It's intimate, and relaxing for both parties, and its quiet and togetherly, and sort of hypnotic. It is just conducive to slow thoughtful talks. I ask a question or make a point and brush away, 3, 4, 8 minutes later Hanners answers. I brush, and 3, 4, 8 minutes later I say something back. It gives you time to think before speaking, and gives both parties something to enjoy while thinking or waiting while the other person is doing their thinking.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

Post #: 33

RE: Internalizing - 6/22/2011 9:22:54 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

I swear to all that is holy I am going to stop reading KightofMists posts when I'm having these kind of nights where I'm barely keeping it together as it is.

Kali, hugs for posting this! Learning boundaries is an important life skill. Know what is yours to own emotionally and what isn't, is a foundation skill for creating a healthy relationship. You rock and really deserve to have one. So big hugs and get busy woman!

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 34

RE: Internalizing - 6/22/2011 9:35:19 AM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

I don't think this is something you can do entirely on your own, even if you are deeply inspired to.< snip > The stronger the person you associate with, the stronger will be your motivation to change, I believe--for a number of obvious reasons. :)

In my OP, i said it was theoretical, like just trying to generate some conversation; i'm not in a relationship and i'm not wasting time trying to internalize a role i don't currently have at the moment. and even then, my "role" that i did have and any future role i may have would probably be different enough to warrant adjustments anyway. =p
i mean, i have an idea of who i am, but i'm not going to construct a complicated definition for myself because, without the other half of the equation, what's the point?

it's like NuevaVida's post earlier, where she retold how she pissed off a lot of female s-types by saying "submissive enough for whom?" =p these were women with a complicated definition of ultimate pious slavehood that they held above themselves and couldn't attain. i don't have any intention of doing that. the functional definition of what i am as an s-type depends on the other person and the relationship dynamic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday
What is an example of intermalizing, by the way? You use the word in a way that is different from what I am used to. I normally use it or see it used as the process of taking another person inside of you, absorbing them. I internalized my last master: when he died, I knew, if I consulted myself, exactly what he'd want me to do in amost any circumstance.

i've always associated "internalizing" with taking something as part of your definition of who you are. not necessarily another person, but just something. for example, those who study American Tribal Style bellydance internalize the movements and cues to the point of creation "muscle memory;" when you see a cue, your body is so conditioned that it "knows" instantly what move to do in response.
that's essentially what i'm talking about -- in my last relationship, i had a bunch of insecurities that kept me from really internalizing what M and i were going for. given more time, i'm sure i'd have overcome them, because he was a fantastic motivator. so when i say "internalize the role," i mean that i'm simply no longer concerned with the insecurities, at least not to the point where they cause me to hold back or keep little bits of myself behind a fence.

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to aromanholiday)

Post #: 35

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