RE: What is your religious belief

RE: What is your religious belief (Full Version)

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[Poll]

What is your religious belief

Christian

22% (15)

Judaism

3% (2)

Islam

0% (0)

Budhaism

0% (0)

Taoism

3% (2)

Hinduism

0% (0)

New Age/Wicca

7% (5)

Atheist

22% (15)

Other

40% (27)

Total Votes : 66

(last vote on : 6/28/2011 8:48:38 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

Musicmystery -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 8:24:20 AM)
quote: if the republicans are as god fearing as they are made out to be They aren't. They just realized it could help their party after the Nixon fiasco. Reagan embraced it, including the crazies like Falwell, along with cut and borrow economics that even Bob Dole and H.W. Bush were ridiculing in 1980. But the deal was done, and now they have to keep up the charade, even as what they've spawned turns out to be a child of the devil. All they can do now is wait for it to implode and start again with a new strategy.

TreasureKY -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 10:39:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Hardly. Just look to the Republican party for that answer. On one hand, I agree with your assessment that the Republican Party is not dying or dead. On the other, I'm surprised that your worldview is Christian = Republican and Republican = Christian.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:07:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Hardly. Just look to the Republican party for that answer. On one hand, I agree with your assessment that the Republican Party is not dying or dead. On the other, I'm surprised that your worldview is Christian = Republican and Republican = Christian. black and white is much easier for her brain to process. ;)

errantgeek -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:22:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Nah; an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god. That's not me. It's religion that I don't believe in - I despise religions, of any and all kinds. That would make you an atheist. Broken down, the word means "without god/religion", depending how strongly you apply connotation. Atheism applies to a broad cross-section of beliefs, and is synonymous with irreligion and nontheism (the main difference being the level of butthurt you inflict by calling someone an atheist when they have a misconception or misunderstanding of what atheism is). The positive statement "god does not exist" is just the hardest subset of atheism definable (which has been used mostly by the Christian community to demonize and divide atheists). Personally, I make no definitive statement as to whether a god exists due to a lack of evidence, being a pretty hardcore empiricist. The best I can say is that due to an overwhelming lack of evidence, the probability god does not exist is very high. For that reason among others, I reject religion. That makes me a negative/soft/weak (however you want to call it, they're the same) atheist.

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:22:54 AM)
Religious beliefs? From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary on the origin of the word: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely Not something I am willing to subscribe to, as well as most people think of religion, they think of organized religion. I was brought up Christian, I have explored occult, magick, philosophy, Taoism, various forms of Buddhism, Hinduism, yoga since then...my personal beliefs are just that, personal, based upon seeking, experience, etc. One of my favorite thoughts comes from Lama Yeshe where in his books he continues to implore the reader not to accept what he has written but rather to check it out for themselves. That is all it is, to live, to experience, to create... the rest is just doctrine.

Musicmystery -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:24:44 AM)
quote: atheist. Broken down, the word means "without god/religion" No, it doesn't. It means literally without god. Taoism and Buddhism are often considered "religions"; neither has a god. There's an important distinction between spirituality and religion. Panda is referring to this. a·the·ist (th-st) n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:28:21 AM)
Some forms of Buddhism do not have gods, other forms recognize a large pantheon. Taoism is similar to the Hindu Brahma...where everything is part of the whole. Some might see the whole as "god". As for the distinction between spirituality and religion, there is, since religion now generally means organized religion. Shrug...

Musicmystery -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:31:03 AM)
Yes on Buddhism, but hardly addresses the point...his addition to the definition of atheist. You're really stretching on Taoism...Buddhism is much closer to Hinduism. If you're going to use a broad, metaphorical approach to "god," then any central belief is a "god." STILL doesn't change the point. Aren't semantics fun. Pointless. But fun.

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:40:41 AM)
Ah but so much control has been used regarding semantics...differences in doctrine/dogma, wars, treatment of others, etc...all because of definitions, interpretations and so forth. Take hinduism, a concept such as the caste system can be viewed as you are in your current position because of past actions and that is your place; in one way it can be used to control large groups of the population and justify the Brahmin class, in another way, it can explain why things happen and be used as a way to initiate growth. Historically, it falls under the first usage...and hundreds of thousands have been kept under control, judged, abused...all because of semantics. I recognize that Hinduism and Buddhism are closer aligned than Hinduism and Taoism, in fact Buddhism can be seen to Hinduism what Protestant was seen to the Catholic. I suppose my wandering point from the atheist discussion was more the similarities, similar to parrallels between certain aspects of either Taoism or Hinduism to quantum physics. I see a lot as essentually the same answers using different vocabularies, differring cultural constraints as well historical context. Perhaps more of a post-post modern approach, or perhaps a chaos magick approach, using whatever and making it work... My favorite "scripture" quote comes from a tantric text and speaks that there is no enlightenment, nothing to seek, nothing to know...I'll need to find it again.

errantgeek -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:47:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery No, it doesn't. It means literally without god. Taoism and Buddhism are often considered "religions"; neither has a god. You also notably excluded the key part of my post: connotation. The meanings and connotation of words change over time, and prominent atheist writers (Martin, Smart, Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, Harris, among others) have been quick to adopt this and make very strong cases atheism is inclusive of irreligious and nontheist viewpoints as well. "Theism" has evolved in meaning beyond its root "theos", or god, to be inclusive of "religion" or "faith"; therefore its opposite, "atheism", should evolve similarly to be inclusive of all beliefs that reject religion. Both of those religions you mentioned include spiritual and transcendental elements, which are metaphysical propositions and the key point, here. Religion, defined as best it can be in a sentence, is a social, moral and ethical framework based upon a set of metaphysical propositions (whether that's transcendentalism, spirituality, god, whatever). The rejection of a framework in which said metaphysical propositions is a necessary condition is key to atheism as has been redefined to reflect contemporary society, as I see it. Once a person rejects religion, they are an atheist. Why they have rejected religion, including statements regarding the existence of a god, dictates what subset of atheist they are.

Musicmystery -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:52:21 AM)
Nonetheless, the point stands, just as Panda intended it. shrug Parse it if you like. Quantum physics has metaphysical aspects too; I doubt anyone would seriously call it a religion (except in an Internet forum).

Musicmystery -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:54:34 AM)
quote: Buddhism can be seen to Hinduism what Protestant was seen to the Catholic. Well, not really. Luther was reacting to abuses; Siddhartha was looking past karma to enlightenment.

CreepyStalker -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 11:59:12 AM)
Uh, what happened to Sikhism on this list?

CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 12:25:28 PM)
My mistake, I had read several times that Buddhism was viewed as a reformation of Hinduism and have seen people make parallels between Luther and Buddha even if their intentions might have been different. A victim of reading too much...and making generalizations instead of presenting more of a historical essay. Then it has been years since I have utilized footnotes, as fun as they might be.

Kirata -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 1:41:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: errantgeek The rejection of a framework in which said metaphysical propositions is a necessary condition is key to atheism as has been redefined to reflect contemporary society, as I see it. This is nothing more or less than an attempt to dress up Materialism as Atheism. K.

tweakabelle -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 2:55:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: errantgeek quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery No, it doesn't. It means literally without god. Taoism and Buddhism are often considered "religions"; neither has a god. You also notably excluded the key part of my post: connotation. The meanings and connotation of words change over time, and prominent atheist writers (Martin, Smart, Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, Harris, among others) have been quick to adopt this and make very strong cases atheism is inclusive of irreligious and nontheist viewpoints as well. "Theism" has evolved in meaning beyond its root "theos", or god, to be inclusive of "religion" or "faith"; therefore its opposite, "atheism", should evolve similarly to be inclusive of all beliefs that reject religion. Both of those religions you mentioned include spiritual and transcendental elements, which are metaphysical propositions and the key point, here. Religion, defined as best it can be in a sentence, is a social, moral and ethical framework based upon a set of metaphysical propositions (whether that's transcendentalism, spirituality, god, whatever). The rejection of a framework in which said metaphysical propositions is a necessary condition is key to atheism as has been redefined to reflect contemporary society, as I see it. Once a person rejects religion, they are an atheist. Why they have rejected religion, including statements regarding the existence of a god, dictates what subset of atheist they are. This is an interesting argument and not one without merit either. It makes sense that those who actively believe - theists - should be identified as such. And there is a case for all the rest of us non-believers to be lumped in together. However, I'm yet to be convinced that atheism is the term to do it. It already has baggage - historically, it refers to those who have the diametrically opposite belief to theists, those who are convinced there is no God. So the entire issue is framed in theistic terms. Often, those who define the language of the discourse end up winning the argument. As you say, these little connotations are important. Those who don't believe are a broad church (sorry I couldn't resist), including those who don't know, can't be bothered, are sceptical and so on. That diversity of thought ought to be celebrated in the terminology we use. So I like the term freethinkers. It's positive and inclusive and free of any theistic residue.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 7:15:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b quote: I'm a Schlüßelbergalist. We're a heretical offshoot of Flyingspaghettimonsterism. I've heard about you. You're the ones who believe that the flying spaghetti monster is topped with romano cheese instead of parmesan, right? Well, Mark, this is something we leave up to the individual. "The Book of Pastafari" is unclear as to this. There are even some weirdos who shave cave-aged Gruyere on their sacfificial pastas. Now, Schlusselbergalism (using the English spelling) is sort of an offshoot of Pastafarianism. We pay homage to the Dog-Nosed God. <---------------------------------- (note the fine, almost-photograph-like detail in this 17th century rendition of He Who Barks, by the Dutch Master Arf Van der Woof.) Our group split off in the early 17th century, at a time when the Protestants and Catholics were happily slaughtering each other by the tens of thousands in Europe, and burning heretics when they had a moment of free time. The DNG was sent to Earth by the FSM to save people from having to live with cats in their old age. He's sort of like the Jesus of Pastafarianism.

Musicmystery -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 7:27:31 PM)
Now, are they an offshoot of the Frisbetarians? The ones who believe that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down?

Kirata -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 7:33:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Now, are they an offshoot of the Frisbetarians? The ones who believe that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down? Oh shit that was funny! [sm=applause.gif] K.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: What is your religious belief (6/28/2011 7:35:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Now, are they an offshoot of the Frisbetarians? The ones who believe that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down? No, those are College Student Slackers. They are a subgroup of the Pizzarians.

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