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RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 11:49:09 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:


Except that those donors get tax deductions for their donations. If those charitable groups want to get involved in politics then the money donated should not be tax deductible.


And yet they pay personal taxes, they pay business taxes, they pay property taxes. I can give money to a non-religious group and get a tax deduction. It isnt only religious groups that get those.


All tax deductible charitable organizations (501(c)3) are supposed to stay out of politics.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 11:54:01 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But the people of those groups do pay the same as you and I. Silencing their voice is indeed a very dangerous step to take.

As I said before, taz, if they want to speak as an individual, that's ok.

If they want to vote as an individual, that's ok.

The minute that the XYZ Baptist church starts attempting to legislate from the pulpit, that is NOT ok.

Seriously, what is the difference between the Taliban or a Baptist theocracy (or other religion)?


So the congresswomen who was talking about how her pastor led her church in prayer to pray that Obamacare was passed right before the election took place should have stopped him?


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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 11:55:11 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It was fine for ministers to use their standing and religion to promote their politics when they were left wingers  (Jesse Jackson  and the Berrigan brothers.)


Jackson and Berrigan were calling for all the queers to be rounded up and disposed of then, were they?


So as long as they are pushing YOUR agenda it's ok?


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RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 11:56:30 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Wanting to tattoo pink triangles on all of the homosexuals is a Republican agenda then, is it?

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 11:57:22 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Wanting to tattoo pink triangles on all of the homosexuals is a Republican agenda then, is it?


Only in your warped little mind.


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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 12:00:11 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		You can specify all of Jackson and the Berrigan's liberal agendae right now, can you?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 12:23:49 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		I have no issue with priests and reverands partaking in the political process....I have an issue and an abiding loathing of any and all who would pervert the process in an attempt to influence secular government to adhere to their own theocratic vision.
As an aside I also have issues with movie stars and musical artists using their talent in one area to promote their views....the ability to hit a mark or a note does not translate in my mind to what their outsized influence can be in the political sphere.....and most artistic voices happen to be liberal.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 12:33:21 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:


Except that those donors get tax deductions for their donations. If those charitable groups want to get involved in politics then the money donated should not be tax deductible.


And yet they pay personal taxes, they pay business taxes, they pay property taxes. I can give money to a non-religious group and get a tax deduction. It isnt only religious groups that get those.


All tax deductible charitable organizations (501(c)3) are supposed to stay out of politics.


PETA is tax exempt. The NRA is a 501(c) (4), tax exempt. NOW is 501 (c) (3), tax exempt.

Do they?

_____________________________

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 1:52:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:


Except that those donors get tax deductions for their donations. If those charitable groups want to get involved in politics then the money donated should not be tax deductible.


And yet they pay personal taxes, they pay business taxes, they pay property taxes. I can give money to a non-religious group and get a tax deduction. It isnt only religious groups that get those.


All tax deductible charitable organizations (501(c)3) are supposed to stay out of politics.


PETA is tax exempt. The NRA is a 501(c) (4), tax exempt. NOW is 501 (c) (3), tax exempt.

Do they?

The tax code is fairly arcane but IIRC these groups qualify to lobby in specific areas under IRC 501 (h) but all 501(c)3 groups are absolutely forbidden to engage in "political activity." The NRA, for instance, has a seperate organization, the NRA Political Victory Fund, which engages in political activity and another seperate organization, NRA Institute for Legislative Action, which engages in lobbying. Donations to those groups are not tax deductible.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/27/2011 2:16:39 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

But the people of those groups do pay the same as you and I. Silencing their voice is indeed a very dangerous step to take.

As I said before, taz, if they want to speak as an individual, that's ok.

If they want to vote as an individual, that's ok.

The minute that the XYZ Baptist church starts attempting to legislate from the pulpit, that is NOT ok.

Seriously, what is the difference between the Taliban or a Baptist theocracy (or other religion)?


So the congresswomen who was talking about how her pastor led her church in prayer to pray that Obamacare was passed right before the election took place should have stopped him?


I think speaking to him later might have been good. electioneering doesnt belong in a religious institution.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/28/2011 8:52:13 AM   
errantgeek


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Joined: 6/20/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I think speaking to him later might have been good. electioneering doesnt belong in a religious institution.


I think 501(c)(3) groups should be strictly barred from engaging in political speech as a part of their non-profit tax exemption. Period, end of story. That is not a curtail on freedom of speech, but rather a privilege extended to organizations which have specifically vowed to not engage in political speech; they're still fully-capable of political speech without the exemption. Otherwise, the distinction between mere political speech and electioneering is too razor-thin and ad hoc to form any reasonable, reliable basis for reviewing challenges. This is especially true for churches, which don't even have to file Form 1023 or pay filing fees for tax exempt status!

If an organization wishes for tax exemption and to engage in political speech, they can file as 501(c)(4) or 501(c)(6).

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/28/2011 12:09:05 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Exactly.

(in reply to errantgeek)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/28/2011 12:24:27 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Lobbying (trying to affect legislation):

501(c)3s are limited in the amount of time and/or money they can put into lobbying.

501(c)4s can do an unlimited amount of lobbying (but then become ineligible to receive federal monies like grants).

Political campaign activity:


501(c)3s cannot in any way support or oppose anyone running for public office, though they may be involved in political campaigns by way of non-partisan public forums, voter registration drives, etc.

501(c)4s can engage in political campaign activity, so long as this is consistent with the organization’s purpose and is not the organization’s primary activity.


Charitable Donations:

Donations to 501(c)3s are deductible to the full extent of the law.

Donations to 501(c)4s that are public entities (ie, state, local governments, volunteer fire stations) are deductible if they are used for public services. Donations to other 501(c)4s are not deductible.

Should your organization be a 501(c)3 or a 501(c)4?
If you are planning on doing limited or no lobbying and no campaigning, then you probably want the 501(c)3 tax-exemption so that people can benefit from donating to your organization (unless you represent the state or a political subdivision thereof). However, if your organization will be doing substantial lobbying or any campaigning, you should form a 501(c)4.

If you want the best of both worlds, you can have two separate but affiliated organizations – one a charitable 501(c)(3) and the other a 501(c)(4). Many trade organizations lobby extensively on behalf of their members, but have an affiliated 501c3 foundation for charitable giving.



Read more at Suite101: What Is a 501c4 Organization?: The difference between a 501(c)3 and a 501(c)4 | Suite101.com http://www.suite101.com/content/what-is-a-501c4-organization-a14959#ixzz1QbGtRQoB


And I suppose the fact that the NRA Foundation being a 501 (3) (c) doesnt matter?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Christian Taliban In Kansas versus Roe v. Wade - 6/28/2011 5:30:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: errantgeek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I think speaking to him later might have been good. electioneering doesnt belong in a religious institution.


I think 501(c)(3) groups should be strictly barred from engaging in political speech as a part of their non-profit tax exemption. Period, end of story. That is not a curtail on freedom of speech, but rather a privilege extended to organizations which have specifically vowed to not engage in political speech; they're still fully-capable of political speech without the exemption. Otherwise, the distinction between mere political speech and electioneering is too razor-thin and ad hoc to form any reasonable, reliable basis for reviewing challenges. This is especially true for churches, which don't even have to file Form 1023 or pay filing fees for tax exempt status!

If an organization wishes for tax exemption and to engage in political speech, they can file as 501(c)(4) or 501(c)(6).


There should be no tax exemptions period. Then all can politic to their hearts delight.


_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to errantgeek)
Profile   Post #: 94
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