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Tests? - 5/15/2006 7:25:37 PM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

IMHEO, a good Dominant knows and is aware at all times where their submissives tolerance level is--yes we push that level, but One has to be cognizant of human limitations.

This response to another post started some questioning on my own...and so instead of hijacking, I thought I'ld start another post...damn, if I continue acting polite, I'll be laughed at regarding my "asshole" label...

First, I think that the original posting here assumes that there is honest, trusting, open communication; also, that the Dominant is both willing and capable to get that established, now I understand all have different approaches, all have different results...and that this is something which needs to be continuously acted upon. Running with the assumption, at least for my purposes of this particular posting, that we are speaking about a D/s, M/s relationship; that relationship will be in a continuous state of growth, flux, fluidity...at least with in parameters...still, if the communication isn't sincere, then all attempts by either party Dominant or submissive will be stunted. If I am running with incomplete data or even deceitful data, then my resultant actions will not be effective. Period.

As for pushing limits, this I too understand and it serves differing purposes...so, where the hell is his question??? OK, I'll shut up and get to it...in the original thread there was posted a question regarding holding a physical position indefinately, apparently to test the level of obedience...what purpose do you see these tests serving? Yes, it is symbolic of what the level of intimacy, desire, need is...especially on the submissives part; still, do you find that these tests are necessary to maintain control or just to symbolize it? Is it enough to know that the level of devotion is there, or must it always be demonstrated? Do you feel that it is more constructive to 'test' in more productive manners or do you see abstract tests as parables of the dynamics if you will?

...and a parting thought; how do you feel as a Dominant, your loyalty, trust, intensity, desire in the relationship is 'tested' or perhaps just demonstrated?

Thanks for your consideration, now I MUST find that goddamed 'asshole' mask again...

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

Post #: 1

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 7:36:16 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I only test things I think will fail which is why I don't test the women in my life.

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 2

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 8:04:20 PM

VvShadowspawnvV

Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline

Well, from the slave side of things,... sometimes tests are the easy, all-at-once, obvious way to show submission Yes, i serve Him daily, in many ways... but sometimes there's a "tell me to do it, just so You'll see i WILL" feeling.

I beg you to dare me to walk through fire, to misquote the song.

becca

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 3

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 8:17:11 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

I dont think tests are that good for maintaining a level of control...but what they could be good for is actualising within the submissive an awareness of self, a deeper understanding and connection with their submission and slavery. They could manifest a good feeling in the submissive and whenever good feelings are present it cultivates a wholesome environment where a person, any person feels more confident to take another step, or learn more and just for the simple fact of feeling more comfortable within themselves.

Tests in this regard should be done in the knowledge that the submissive will pass the test, they shouldnt be set up for failure, which would end up having the opposite effect of all the good stuff I mentioned above.

On a kinky note re tests: in play setting up a submissive/slave for failure can be really hot *grin*

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to VvShadowspawnvV)

Post #: 4

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 8:19:27 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

Ok..let me give this a try...coming from a novice level, I will simply be applying what I feel from a common sense point of view with a wee bit of submissive thrown in....I find such "tests" to be rather insulting to a submissive simply because it seems to imply that the Dominant is questioning the submissives level of submission.However if I were given a task that had some validity or purpose other than testing my submission, then I would be pleased to deliver..Of course with that being said, if test was from a standpoint of possibly Dominants sadistic nature of enjoyment of said test then again,fine...okay I am trying not to ramble..so I will put it down to my common sense woman is having an argument with my submissive woman...Oy Vey!

..be well...Tempting

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 5

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 8:27:04 PM

Dustyn

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

quote:

IMHEO, a good Dominant knows and is aware at all times where their submissives tolerance level is--yes we push that level, but One has to be cognizant of human limitations.

This response to another post started some questioning on my own...and so instead of hijacking, I thought I'ld start another post...damn, if I continue acting polite, I'll be laughed at regarding my "asshole" label...

First, I think that the original posting here assumes that there is honest, trusting, open communication; also, that the Dominant is both willing and capable to get that established, now I understand all have different approaches, all have different results...and that this is something which needs to be continuously acted upon. Running with the assumption, at least for my purposes of this particular posting, that we are speaking about a D/s, M/s relationship; that relationship will be in a continuous state of growth, flux, fluidity...at least with in parameters...(1)still, if the communication isn't sincere, then all attempts by either party Dominant or submissive will be stunted. If I am running with incomplete data or even deceitful data, then my resultant actions will not be effective. Period.

As for pushing limits, this I too understand and it serves differing purposes...so, where the hell is his question??? OK, I'll shut up and get to it...in the original thread there was posted a question regarding holding a physical position indefinately, apparently to test the level of obedience...what purpose do you see these tests serving? Yes, it is symbolic of what the level of intimacy, desire, need is...especially on the submissives part; still, (2)do you find that these tests are necessary to maintain control or just to symbolize it? Is it enough to know that the level of devotion is there, or must it always be demonstrated? Do you feel that it is more constructive to 'test' in more productive manners or do you see abstract tests as parables of the dynamics if you will?

...and a parting thought; how do you feel as a Dominant, your loyalty, trust, intensity, desire in the relationship is 'tested' or perhaps just demonstrated?

Thanks for your consideration, now I MUST find that goddamed 'asshole' mask again...

C

Addressing points by self-inserted numbers, just for simplicity sakes:

1.) All too often, both sides will be expected by the other to be a mind reader, especially if both sides are experienced in general, but not neccessarily with each other. I've recently run into this problem, and after several months or half-hearted attempts by both sides to try and explain and neither side willing to admit wrongs at the same time, I've done away with the whole relationship. Simply not worth the aggrevation and stress, given my heart condition and MD, which I might add was greatly screwed with in an unintentional mind fuck. As always, excrement occurs, though.

2.) It's generally, in my observation, done for the same reason that a drill sargeant will make a recruit do push ups until arms give out, or run til they puke, or what-have-you. To build strength, self-reliance and assurity and to flat out show who is in charge. Personally, I think it's a bit on the petty side, since submission is not something to be demanded, like a car loan payment, but something done as a sign of respect. The other person's attitude towards you will show you how much respect they have for you. But that's just my take on it, so who knows.

And as for your 'asshole' mask, don't sweat the small things. A mask is something that can be taken off by will or whim. You are either an asshole or your not. Me, I'm a fine example of how to be a supreme Bastard, but I enjoy being one. Makes life so much more entertaining. I reserve being nice and/or kind for those that demonstrate that they deserve that kind of treatment from me. Frankly, very, very few ever demonstrate that.

- Dustyn

_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 6

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 8:38:44 PM

yourMissTress

Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

do you find that these tests are necessary to maintain control or just to symbolize it? Is it enough to know that the level of devotion is there, or must it always be demonstrated? Do you feel that it is more constructive to 'test' in more productive manners or do you see abstract tests as parables of the dynamics if you will?

CERKL, these questions actually made me feel sick to my stomach, which is why I have to now explore those feelings and answer. Thank you.

I wouldn't want to "test" a sub's loyalty, trust, devotion, or anything of the sort. I wouldn't want to set them up for anything which could cause them to feel that they have failed me in anyway.

My subs show me their level of devotion in their actions. I don't ask it of them, I don't ask them to prove anything to me. Their presence, their willingness, their eagerness to serve, is more than any test could demonstrate to me.

When I look into the eyes of My girl, mousetrapp, I see more love and devotion than a heart can comprehend. Giving her some random and silly test would make a mockery of what it is that we share. It would reduce the infinite to the quantifiable. It would reduce her from a multifaceted and talented woman to an action or a task, putting a physical limitation on a limitless person.

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 7

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 10:00:10 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Actually your quoted post was a very good post taken out of context in a thread that had nothing to do with testing, rather how long would a submissive "tolerate" a command she (he) was given. The palms up was just an example.

As for testing...It depends on the motive behind it. Sometimes a Dominant will want to gauge where the submissive in at a given time. Sometimes a submissive needs something to discover her own devotion. Now, while my Master would not put me through tests such as "hang out here with your hands up for the rest of the week," you will see a few stories in that other thread where submissives were put in situations which ultimately showed a level of devotion surprising even to them.

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 8

RE: Tests? - 5/15/2006 10:10:35 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

LOL.... testing me will only cause the dominate one to flunk his own test. Because if I have to be tested... then he failed me .......because if he's not sure of me... how can i be sure of him...

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 9

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 3:26:41 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL
I'll be laughed at regarding my "asshole" label...

You'll still be laughed at, you have too high a braincell count for that lable to fit properly

quote:

If I am running with incomplete data or even deceitful data, then my resultant actions will not be effective. Period.

Absolutely.This was one of my failiours last time. After nearly 10 years together, I thought I'd built enough trust and communication that I could trust in the 'data' I was getting rather than it simply being her telling me what she thought I wanted to hear.... I won't be making that mistake again, no matter the length of time.

quote:

what purpose do you see these tests serving? Yes, it is symbolic of what the level of intimacy, desire, need is...especially on the submissives part; still, do you find that these tests are necessary to maintain control or just to symbolize it? Is it enough to know that the level of devotion is there, or must it always be demonstrated?

Hmmmm I must admit I never see such things as tests. Play yes, but only when I already know she has set her heart on pleasing me. Sometimes a little more when she expresses a need to be pushed harder.... it IS very pleasurable to see her do something difficult for her to do simply 'for you', but that can be something good for her just as easily as something otherwise meaningless like this kind of test.

Also is the test set so she can't succeed, is she set up to fail? Or is her best effort enough, is the importance is seeing her try?

quote:

...and a parting thought; how do you feel as a Dominant, your loyalty, trust, intensity, desire in the relationship is 'tested' or perhaps just demonstrated?

Loyalty, trust, intensity, desire aren't things to be tested, but reciprocated.

< Message edited by RavenMuse -- 5/16/2006 3:27:11 AM >

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 10

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 4:07:16 AM

twicehappy

Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Hmmmm I must admit I never see such things as tests. Play yes, but only when I already know she has set her heart on pleasing me. Sometimes a little more when she expresses a need to be pushed harder.... it IS very pleasurable to see her do something difficult for her to do simply 'for you', but that can be something good for her just as easily as something otherwise meaningless like this kind of test.

Also is the test set so she can't succeed, is she set up to fail? Or is her best effort enough, is the importance is seeing her try?

I think in some fashion or another all dominants test those they own. Maybe in not quite a severe fashion as mentioned in the start of this post, but a testing none the less.

As you stated it can be very good for both for numerous reasons, perhaps the sub/slave learns something new about themselves or the dominant learns something new about the sub/slave. Occasionally some learn that they are still human, a bitter lesson for many, myself included, as we continually think we must be perfection personified or we are failures instead of what we actually are, simply human.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

...and a parting thought; how do you feel as a Dominant, your loyalty, trust, intensity, desire in the relationship is 'tested' or perhaps just demonstrated?

Though many will not admit it, many sub/slaves, even those long in the same collar, tend to occasionally test their dominants. Most are not even consciously aware that they do it, though some are. Every so often i believe we all tug our chains to get a response, even if only to reassure ourselves they are tight.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

Post #: 11

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 6:05:33 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL
As for pushing limits, this I too understand and it serves differing purposes...so, where the hell is his question??? OK, I'll shut up and get to it...in the original thread there was posted a question regarding holding a physical position indefinately, apparently to test the level of obedience...what purpose do you see these tests serving? Yes, it is symbolic of what the level of intimacy, desire, need is...especially on the submissives part; still, do you find that these tests are necessary to maintain control or just to symbolize it? Is it enough to know that the level of devotion is there, or must it always be demonstrated? Do you feel that it is more constructive to 'test' in more productive manners or do you see abstract tests as parables of the dynamics if you will?

I think tests like those are mostly crap.

Reality brings you more than enough tests of your devotion and relationship in time- tests that are far more pressing and difficult than any scene set-up, tests that will prove to everyone where they really stand.

If someone felt they needed to test me, then there's obviously a problem already there. If they can't just talk to me about it, that's a problem.

Tests are created for the insecure as a way to force a sense of security. It doesn't really work and it doesn't really bring people closer together.

Time and life spent together is the greatest test for any relationship.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 12

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 6:17:55 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

first of all, all i have to say is my tolerence level is constantly changing, so He can never *know* off the bat where i am at, He has to figure it out each time.

As far a "tests" go, its not for everyone. i would say i dont view it as a test either, even though it all rights it is. i love having my boundaries pushed, i like showing Him that i will take whatever He pleases with a smile, and if not a smile, i am still thanking Him in the end and curling up on His chest contently.

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 13

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 7:21:12 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

The only valid test is one which neither party is aware it's occurring. The measure of someones commitment is determined in retrospect. After some incident, or some intense scene you take a deep breath and realize you've both done something or experienced something that goes beyond the previous "norm". It doesn't necessarily focus on the physical. It could come from a opportunity or an illustration of trust or of an attempt to please. The best measure comes from the aftermath of failure. Reaction to failure is the best test of a person or of a relationship. Failure can't be contrived and it's not something I would recommend seeking just to "prove" a person's commitment. If I needed that test to be confident it would show that I already failed and didn't bring much confidence to the table in the first place.

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 14

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 7:23:03 AM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

quote:

IMHEO, a good Dominant knows and is aware at all times where their submissives tolerance level is--yes we push that level, but One has to be cognizant of human limitations.

...there was posted a question regarding holding a physical position indefinately, apparently to test the level of obedience...what purpose do you see these tests serving? Yes, it is symbolic of what the level of intimacy, desire, need is...especially on the submissives part; still, do you find that these tests are necessary to maintain control or just to symbolize it? Is it enough to know that the level of devotion is there, or must it always be demonstrated? Do you feel that it is more constructive to 'test' in more productive manners or do you see abstract tests as parables of the dynamics if you will?

...and a parting thought; how do you feel as a Dominant, your loyalty, trust, intensity, desire in the relationship is 'tested' or perhaps just demonstrated?

Thanks for your consideration, now I MUST find that goddamed 'asshole' mask again...

C

<smiles and reaches for a martini>--well CERCKL,since those are My words quoted up there and since You have posted some very insightful posts lately, the asshole mask won't deter Me---You're busted as they say...

now on to Your question--I find tests to be childish, harking back to junior high "if he comes after me when I break up, he loves me"---that IMHEO is childish bullshit--to test as Tress says, demeans what they bring to the table and it demeans Me---says I'm not confident, capable, and comfortable in who I am and what I want---I do however in the beginning, test for submission--assignments etc. but after it is agreed and determined, then life begins.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 15

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 5:21:42 PM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

smiles and reaches for a martini>--well CERCKL,since those are My words quoted up there and since You have posted some very insightful posts lately, the asshole mask won't deter Me---You're busted as they say...

now on to Your question--I find tests to be childish, harking back to junior high "if he comes after me when I break up, he loves me"---that IMHEO is childish bullshit--to test as Tress says, demeans what they bring to the table and it demeans Me---says I'm not confident, capable, and comfortable in who I am and what I want---I do however in the beginning, test for submission--assignments etc. but after it is agreed and determined, then life begins.

I thank you for your input, as well as that of many others...and ownedgirlie...I am fully aware that my quoting Mistress in my original OP was out of context...I stated that it started me thinking in regards to this stream of thought; which is why I began another post instead of hijacking the previous one...so "Nyaaah".

In my persoanl situation, once the foundation is being laid, I find the concept of tests disturbing, not aligned with what is being built; one of the aspects of defining my need for a "D/s" relationship is the core of intensity in communication, honesty, trust...I recognize that these are elements which need to be nurtured, recognized and continued to make this dynamic work; still the phantasmagorical nature of trying to hide oneself, presenting different personas, facades in normal (if you will) relationships seems so self-destructive, self-defeating and just plain exhausting...I recognize that there are those who make it work and I am certain they too reach the same intimacy but evidently, for whatever reason, I was never able to make it work...

I think the other part of 'tests' which I find disturbing is that it presents, as pointed out, a lacking, especially, I believe, in the core areas already mentioned...saying that, I do recognize that there is something very satisfying in seeing obedience, when it is presented, not in a testing situation but when it flows naturally; once that submission can be realized...then there is so much flowing both directions...just as my desire to help foster her growth or making her feel safe.

I also know that in alot of ways, there is unconscious 'testing', just to see if boundaries, parameters still exist and my personal goal is to reach the point where that is just known, believed and not in need of being demonstrated.

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to MHOO314)

Post #: 16

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 5:26:56 PM

Slipstreme

Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline

I test my pain tolerence because it pleases me to do so, and going further makes me feel like I have accomplished something, gone to deeper levels in masochism.

I test other people's pain tolerence because it pleases me to do so, even though the sadistic side of me always wants to take it further. However, true testing will only happen with people I know well enough, which right now is none.

I have no need to test a submissive in any other ways, because I have no submissive or slave of my own in a relationship that goes deep enough to merit it. Until I do, and if I see that the relationship needs testing perhaps, although I would hope not.

< Message edited by Slipstreme -- 5/16/2006 5:27:48 PM >

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 17

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 5:48:32 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL
AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

I was once asked why I was so nice and calm and polite to people.

I told them I got to go to work to vent my raging bile duct at humanity, and that I dont take my work home with me.

I was also asked by a co-worker while I was putting out fires at my other job if I ever got upset by anything. I responded "Would it help?"

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 18

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 6:20:10 PM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I was once asked why I was so nice and calm and polite to people.

I told them I got to go to work to vent my raging bile duct at humanity, and that I dont take my work home with me.

I was also asked by a co-worker while I was putting out fires at my other job if I ever got upset by anything. I responded "Would it help?"

Sinergy

...but some of us like to wallow in our samsara <g>
Did I say 'wallow'???

C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 19

RE: Tests? - 5/16/2006 8:20:38 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CERCKL

...and ownedgirlie...I am fully aware that my quoting Mistress in my original OP was out of context...I stated that it started me thinking in regards to this stream of thought; which is why I began another post instead of hijacking the previous one...so "Nyaaah".

Hahahahaha CERCKL, why yes you did, so

back atcha just for fun. It's all good.

(in reply to CERCKL)

Post #: 20

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