how important is it to "break" a sub?

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bobbyoral2 -> how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/15/2006 8:54:48 PM)
i am a submissive male, have been for about 6 years now and just began a new relationship. problem is, i'm having a bit of trouble accepting the "break" concept. it seems to bring up very hostile feelings in me, feelings which i do not wish to show to my lady. my last domme had lots of physical issues, and so my spankings and whippings were limited to how long she could go on. now i am in a situation where the lady of my life speaks of this "breaking" concept as if it is always the thing to do, the reason for our time together. though i have some masochistic tendencies, the very word fills me with a burning rage. i am more the hero than the healer. i am a strong alpha male in public, but my nature is one of sacrifice and saving others from disaster. i cannot wrap my head around the concept of "breaking" someone. is it that important? is not submission sufficient to please most dominant women? your thoughts are most appreciated, as i struggle daily with this. R.

akisha -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/15/2006 9:09:12 PM)
I don't understand why anyone would break a sub. a spirited one would be better would it not? When we had horses you would tame and train a stallion but never try and break it's spirit. To do that destroys the essence of the animal. just my opinion anyway.

yourMissTress -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/15/2006 9:14:38 PM)
I have yet to meet a sub that I wanted to break. Where is the challenge or the fun in dominating a doormat? What would be the point? I have heard this before, and I've never understood it. I would love to hear from someone that does it and enjoys it, I just can't wrap my head around the why.

Misstoyou -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/15/2006 9:50:13 PM)
I don't look to break a sub either. I like to train, mold, control, and all sorts of other things, but I've selected my submissive because I like who he is, and I prefer to keep all the elements of his make-up intact and available to me to use and play with.

OTKkindaGirl -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/15/2006 10:24:28 PM)
please forgive me but i guess it would depend on the definition of "break" in this case. is she wanting to beat you until you cry? is it physically, emotionally, or mentally that she is wanting to break you? all the above? have you asked her to define what she means by breaking you? perhaps your strong will is provoking such statements from her. to me what it means to "break" is to take the very power from the submissive that is relinquishing and pushing it to what seems an unbearable point and then caressing it and holding on to it at that level, until the tears come and defeat of will seems a certainty. to have all your power taken from you temporarily doesn't make you a doormat it teaches humility and makes you humble and maybe even a little dependent on the one the person you have placed your trust in. does this faith not show strength in submissiveness? when i "break" on an emotional level, i tend to feel closer to my Master because he was able to draw something deep from within me, things that i have hidden away even in the subconscious. a physical "break" from a good whipping is hard to pull from me but it does happen on occassion but it usually ties in with subspace and the deeper level of an emotional break. it shouldn't be about "breaking" the spirit, but the will and the mind. to feel completely and utterly at the mercy of your chosen one. that is just my opinion, and i will be very curious to see what all is said in this thread. thank you for posting as i have often wondered about this topic. i am still learning and these are just my own thoughts and feelings, who knows, they may be subject to change at a later date. respectfully....... edited to add; could it also be that perhaps you are too submissive and by provoking fear in you about "breaking" you she is in fact instilling the kind of spirit she is looking for? just a thought.... because i was just physically broke this weekend but not before he brought out some fight in me for the very first time..... hmmm... now i really do wonder? curiouser and curiouser

LoneGoddess -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/15/2006 10:40:04 PM)
It is important. Very important at least to me, and afterwards to my submissive too. The "why" for the lady who asked: Things about himself that he can't reach without me taking him there to the breaking point become readily accessible. Out in the light to be seen wherein we can truly discover what can be done to help make him a better submissive, man, person in the whole sense of the word. People are not horses or dogs. We are cognitive beings, we understand what is happening to us, and given the rationale behind the actions, or motivations if you will, we accept learning about ourselves. Even if it's a painful process to do so sometimes. I've never had a submissive turn into a "doormat" for being "broken". I suggest spending a bit more thought about one's posts and their accuracy before scaring others away from what is a natural process in a D/s relationship's growth. LG~

bobbyoral2 -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 6:06:00 AM)
to one and all, thank you for your input. i apologize for my crudeness LoneGodess. it was never my intention of scaring anyone, but re-reading my post i see your point. i shall try mightily in the future to form my words better. since reading your responses, (thank you, OTKGirl) i think that i am worried more about my mental state than anything else. i cry easily, so emotionally it is not hard to "push my buttons". as for the physicallity of it, i'm a pretty tough s.o.b., and anything she does to me on that level i know i will recover from. ahhh...now the crux of it...it is the mental part that i worry about. i worry that i may be changed somehow from who i am in her eyes. i do not want her to change her feelings for me even though i may show my vulnerability under mental duress. i know that i need to trust her, i know that she has my best interest at heart. perhaps this is the one hurdle that is the most challanging for me. it goes against my very nature to aquiesse my mind, for in the end, it is all i've ever had. i shall meditate deeply on this, as it seems this is the one thing about my submission that i have that hardest time with. R.

thetammyjo -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 8:42:19 AM)
This sounds like a serious conflict of BDSM philosophy. In reality, for all the talk of dominants being right and owners being the most important, this consensual relationships work best when they are founded on the same or very similar philosophical systems. Breaking is something I'd do to an animal I can't reason with though even then I think training and positive feedback works better overall. Breaking is something you'd have to do in a non-consensual relationship and the follow-up is a lot of micromanagment if you want that maintained. I can't grasp why she wants to break you. You need to talk to her about it and see how she is using the words. Is it just that she wants to bring you to tears with the SM interactions? Is it that she wants to assault your personality and rebuild it? These are two different things. Once you have this information you can decide what to do. Remember, you have a responsiblity to yourself as well as her and that implies protecting yourself.

LaTigresse -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 9:00:29 AM)
I don't know if this is just a difference in the perception of terminology or a difference in the people involved....probably both. I would never want to completely break an individual. To ME, this would in essense turn them into a broken shell of their previous self, the self that interested me in the first place. I myself, enjoy a bit of lively conversation, a challenge, some playfulness. I had a woman from here that used to pursue conversation with me then when I obliged would not freakin say anything! All she knew was serving and "yes ma'am". To me, this is boring and sad. To her and her future Mistress it may be perfect. While I agree that humans are not the same as horses and dogs, I have often thought that I deal with both my animals and a submissive on much the same basic level. I enjoy allowing them some playfulness, some spirit, it pleases ME. I don't want a horse that plods down the path, I like the one that dances in playful joy, tossing his head and testing me. I know I have said it before but its like a dance to me, they know I am going to win but the game getting there is half the fun. In the end, I win and both enjoyed the dance. That being said, yes there are times when I just do not have the time or the patience to play the game and that is conveyed, understood and acted upon accordingly.

akisha -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 9:08:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoneGoddess It is important. Very important at least to me, and afterwards to my submissive too. The "why" for the lady who asked: Things about himself that he can't reach without me taking him there to the breaking point become readily accessible. Out in the light to be seen wherein we can truly discover what can be done to help make him a better submissive, man, person in the whole sense of the word. People are not horses or dogs. We are cognitive beings, we understand what is happening to us, and given the rationale behind the actions, or motivations if you will, we accept learning about ourselves. Even if it's a painful process to do so sometimes. I've never had a submissive turn into a "doormat" for being "broken". I suggest spending a bit more thought about one's posts and their accuracy before scaring others away from what is a natural process in a D/s relationship's growth. LG~ Tell that to the people that have been brainwashed by cults, people that have been emotionally and mentally abused for years. We are all animals, some are just more advanced then others. High brain function does not mean we are incapable of being mentally controlled. High brain function is probably what makes us that way. You rarely see an animal voluntarily committing suicide because some idoit convinced them aliens were coming to save them from the pain and desperation of thier lives on earth. Pushing my limits and expanding my submissive awareness is fine but trying to break what is essentially me, is wrong. To me what "breaking" means, is to bring someone to a point where they just don't care anymore and will do what you want out of basic survival tactics rather then out of need and desire. But that's just me [&:]

WhiteRadiance -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 9:12:12 AM)
You articulated your fear well. My sub also has this fear. That I may bring forth something inside him that will change my opinion or feelings for him. I never want to break him, but I do want to take him farther, and deeper... but it takes time, and a LOT of trust. My boy has deep-rooted fears because of bad past experiences. He confided in people and it was turned against him. Being submissive makes you vulnerable... I can understand why you are resistant to being "broken". To be threatened with being "broken" is pretty damned scarey! Break is a term that can take on a variety of meanings. Perhaps you should tell your Mistress that you have concerns, and communicate to her how you feel. I think of a broken mirror, or a broken dish... who wants that? After something breaks, is it any good? I suggest explaining to her how you feel and hope she has the compassion and sense to listen. quote: ORIGINAL: bobbyoral2 ahhh...now the crux of it...it is the mental part that i worry about. i worry that i may be changed somehow from who i am in her eyes. i do not want her to change her feelings for me even though i may show my vulnerability under mental duress. i know that i need to trust her, i know that she has my best interest at heart. perhaps this is the one hurdle that is the most challanging for me. it goes against my very nature to aquiesse my mind, for in the end, it is all i've ever had. i shall meditate deeply on this, as it seems this is the one thing about my submission that i have that hardest time with. R.

DiannaVesta -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 9:29:15 AM)
Breaking someone may just be a rhetorical phrase for her. It was often used in Old Guard bdsm & the term is thrown around a lot. She just might mean breaking some of the habits that inhibit your submission. I would not punish a slave using BDSM. For me bdsm is erotic and playful even if it’s intense and serious. It’s all about the connection. If I want to punish a slave it’s far more serious then an ass whipping. I can find some damn creative ways to make him wish he could have a spanking. Lol I don’t break anyone. Its simple with me… :My way or the highway. I also don’t care of spirited slaves. It’s not my style and it’s a turn off for me. This doesn’t mean doormat but an intelligent and articulate person who understands the d/s dynamic. He/she can figure out what makes me tick and gets my blood crazy not trying to piss me off to beat him/her. I am turned on by sincere acts of submission. Going against my grain just to provoke me will definitely produce bad results. Perhaps she is not pleased with the type of submission you are giving her. I think the best thing to do is to sit down and intelligently has it out. I think it’s important that people thoroughly explain their expectations right up front. It saves a lot of heartache.

EbonyFtshGoddess -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 9:56:20 AM)
breaking isn't always physical. i break my slaves down and rebuild them to be what i want- then again.. i'm talking slaves.. not submissives. it's crucial for a slave to be "broken" and that doesn't always mean physically and they don't have to be masochists. breaking is pretty much a term used to mean hmm.. a bending of one's will more or less. the breaking process is crucial for some slaves. just like breaking in a stallion. you gotta get on that horse and ride it until it acquiesces and realizes who is the boss. no differen't with a slave. of course i don't want a door mat, but yes.. slaves are to be broken and remolded. no one wants a spiritless slave/sub (hopefully).. but some males have a cocky streak that just won't fly. i've only ever had to break one male. since most of my slaves are in very high power positions or successful sometimes they get a wee bit too full of themselves. if they have a successful merger or get a new contract they begin to think that their shit doesn't stink. i'm here to smack them back the fuck to reality. yes, breaking is important

fastlane -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 10:47:41 AM)
What ever you do, do not encourage her by saying something along the lines of, "You think that hurts, C'mon, give me a break!" On the serious note....Hmmmm, me serious, C'mon give me a break? Discuss your emotions with her and let her know that you think a breaking point should only be applied to prisoner's of war and even there you are breaking the laws of the Geneva Convention, not to mention laws of humanity. Make her stop!

slaverosebeauty -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 10:58:01 AM)
Why would a Mistress want to break her slave?? Why would anyone want to play with a broken toy?? Makes no sence to me. {note: you may want to check out the thread in 'general bdsm' discussion, its on breaking as well.}

ShivaTS -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 1:19:42 PM)
I look back at when I got into the lifestyle three months ago. I had gone through some life altering changes and was left "broken" inside. I didnt care about everything, not caring what was happening, or happened to me. I simply wanted to have someone to tell me what to do so I wouldnt have to think or feel. I wanted to be autonomous Ofcourse if you read my first few posts, I was called a doormate. I didnt say no to people I should have and therefore ended up in the hospital. My Master had to teach me not to walk behind him with my head bowed all the time. It was very quiet the first couple of weeks too. Looking back after 3 months of being with him, I am totally different. He likes me to act up or screw up so he can punish me. He wants me to say more than yes Master/no Master and he forbid me to follow behind him or keep my head lowered without him giving me the signal "high". Im lucky to have met him. Maybe the previous posts are right, I feel very close to him and have even become dependent on him. Ive never felt like this for anyone and for the first time crave someones touch, smile, or just his attention. I dont know if it is a good or bad to break someone, but I would not wish anyone to feel like I did. Maybe the difference is that the Dom is supposed to be there for the aftercare just after the breaking to ease the suffering?

bobbyoral2 -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 3:06:16 PM)
again, thank you all so very much for your responses. as always, there is a wide variety of opinion even as to the term "break". it has been a day of quiet reflection for me. i have searched my mind for the cause of my fear, and i believe i now know why i have such a violent reaction to the very word. having been in and around the health field, i have seen more than my share of people "broken" (ShivaTS, yours is not an isolated incedent. peace be with you...) the end results are usually one of two things : either they withdraw into themselves and never come back (the short story "Silent Snow, Secret Snow" comes to mind) or every single emotion explodes like a volcano, a burst dam that can never be rebuilt, leaving them a danger to themselves and others, and the only recourse is a straight-jacket. i believe i broke once as the result of a dear friend of mine getting physically abused in an ungodly manner. i nearly killed a man when that happened. it was the one time in my life i lost all control of my senses, and i never want to go there again. what i saw in myself in that moment was so horrible and so against all that i believe....it causes my pulse to race even now. i have discussed this incedent with her recently, but cannot tell exactly how she took it. since we have known each other for such a short time, perhaps she is just watching to see if this manifests itself in other ways. i do not know for sure. thank you, WhiteRadiance, for your incite. it is my greatest desire to be able to allow her to take me to the places i cannot go by myself (your reference to farther, deeper...) again, i fear for us both. it seems the correct path lies in more communication. i shall speak again of this with her. perhaps, in her wisdom, she can show me a way to circumvent my "dark side". thank you all again for your input. you have been most helpful. R.

LoneGoddess -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/16/2006 6:40:12 PM)
quote: i do not want her to change her feelings for me even though i may show my vulnerability under mental duress. i know that i need to trust her, i know that she has my best interest at heart. perhaps this is the one hurdle that is the most challanging for me. it goes against my very nature to aquiesse my mind, for in the end, it is all i've ever had. Thank you for the apology but the dig wasn't directed at you hon. Seeing your vulnerability may be her aim. Men spend a lot of time trying to maintain a facade of strength, are taught as children that it's not okay to cry, or show emotions of a softer nature, etc. It may not be your mind she's after, but your heart. One never knows until one asks. If it helps to know this, if anything it should bring you closer together, not the other way around. I know in my life, those I've done this with have touched me on a far deeper level than those I haven't. But they had my heart to begin with, or I wouldn't have had the desire to break them. Wow, the closedmindedness as well as knowledge and the lack thereof on this subject is showing. And it seem doesn't allow room for the ability to even understand what I posted previously. When I break a submissive down to the root of his core issues, it's not done for the sake of hurting him, it's not a punishment, it's not even the same process as it is for Ebony and her slaves, it's a healing process. It's something I do out of love for him, to learn more about him, show him things about himself he may not have seen, as I said before. Liken it to a "vision quest" done BDSM style... or holding up a mirror. If ya can wrap your brains around that . ~LoneGoddess [Mod Note: do not put contact information in posts.]

NikkiAnn -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/17/2006 6:39:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiteRadiance Being submissive makes you vulnerable... Mistress, On reading this one line, a light bulb went on in my head. I have been trying to understand why in my heart I am submissive. I think my need to be vunerable is a part of it. I am a MTF Transsexual and I think all my years of trying to be a man, (which never really worked) and of all the lessons I was taught on what a man is and isn't, one of the big lessons men are taught is that men don't cry. They are taught that to be vulnerable is unmanly, they have to be tough and not let things affect them, they aren't allowed to show feelings because that is a sign of weakness. Some men are able to ingnore this training and pressure not to show emotions and are very good at expressing their feelings. That attitude has been slowly changing but in the 60's and 70's men kept it in. I fell under pressure to the idea that to show weakness was wrong. Hey, I tried to be what my parents and society expected me to be and I was pretty good at hiding my feelings. I am trying to unlearn all that crap. By being submissive (and finally a woman) I can show my feelings and allow myself to be vunerable. One thing I have always admired about women is that they can be both strong and vunerable. It is such a release for me to be able to release all these emotions and to be able to cry when I need to. I think keeping it all in can affect physical health too, it causes stress. Being a submissive allowed me to be vulnerable. I know there is more to being a sub than this but it is a big part of my desire to be submissive. It seems like everyday I discover something new about myself. Its hard to describe the pleasure I get from pleasing others, but that is a different story. Respectfully, Nikki Ann

DerLachendeKater -> RE: how important is it to "break" a sub? (5/17/2006 9:50:15 AM)
Just thought I’d toss this out are she wants a sub and not a slave? If she were trying to break you completely I would think about asking her personally two things struck a chord about you to me. the first that you’re alpha in public and that you’re a healer. so exactly how alpha are you in public are you overly alpha to a point where perhaps she feels threatened in her position? or do you still acknowledge that your the sub not her? Frankly you sound abit like me so I' leaning towards you two sitting down and having a very long talk I think you both may need to change your habits expectations etc. just abit

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