RE: slaves being broken

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VvShadowspawnvV -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:06:08 AM)
Master doesn't like to hear that i am "broken". He says what He is doing is "fixing" me. =) i already offered my thoughts on this... if you'd like to talk more, i'm here. becca

Najakcharmer -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:07:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer "Breaking a slave" is an effective psychological technique that is actually related to the "violent heirarchical initiation" theme seen in youth gangs as well as chimpanzee troops. It is basic primate psychology to reinforce a social heirarchy, to effectively "hardwire" the behavioral submission response in the initiate to the dominant members of the troop. I love a good beating as much if not more than the next, but I am certainly thankful that none of the Dominants that I have ever been involved with have subscribed to this philosophy. "Some" of us have our hardwiring firmly in place without having to be "broken" and we do what we do because it's what we find to be fulfilling and have given enough thought to it to make it our life's choice. Should a Dominant ever wish to experiment with my submission in such a way it would certainly be dealbreaker. It is not a philosophy. It is an observation of documented fact about social structuring in primates. I believe that it is well worth making speculative comparisons to how Homo sapiens may be "hardwired" in a social and behavioral sense, to increase our knowledge and understanding of how these dynamics may work in our own lives. I am not necessarily advocating that any of these principles should be applied to a D/s relationship. However they can be applied, and if two people do make that choice, I'd rather they do so with a full understanding of the psychological and sociological principles they are invoking.

mixielicous -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:09:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist chuckles He didn't turn abusive. Thanks though-I realize I may have put out the wrong words. We've done some harsh play and sometimes it goes too far before I realize it. It isn't abuse, it's just the point where I can handle it blurs. If that makes sense. Also, please stop saying my "Master". He's my partner. If you like, you may call him my "Top" or just "A" (as that's what his name begins with). It's a little frustrating. Thanks. As for the breaking...the term breaking, in my mind, implies abuse. It brings to my mind a host of images-a circus animal being repeatedly hit with an electric cattle prod, a dog being beaten with a bat until it cries, a non-consensual slave being whipped until he/she bleeds, and etc. That's what I see in my head when you describe being caned until your skin breaks and you bow and say "Please stop, I'm yours, I'll give you everything I can if you stop." It sounds so romantic, doesn't it? Not to me. sorry about the master bit, you will please note that both those posts were before you called him partner, which i later referred to him as. i guess we have different views of romance... i find that i feed on primal interactions and i feel most at home after an event i have begged for to end [which is .01% of the time]. i guess its just my thing maybe as najak mentioned it is the out of body experience, because i have felt more spiritual and connected to myself more than ever... not to say that just a heavy beating will bring this on i have hit it on pure real romance alone. shrug

Najakcharmer -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:22:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VvShadowspawnvV Master doesn't like to hear that i am "broken". He says what He is doing is "fixing" me. =) Heh. Let's hope he doesn't mean this in the same sense as he would when referring to his other pets. ;) I remember a really silly situation where I had a (non passable) transvestite dressed in full drag glory in my living room. There was a knock on the door, and he scurried for the bathroom to hide. A bit puzzled, I opened it, and there was this guy carrying a bag of tools. "Hi, I'm the TV repairman, and I'm here to fix your TV?" Sorry dude, wrong house. But what a perfect situational pun. To this day, I'm sure this guy still has no idea why I replied, "That's okay, he isn't broken," and shut the door in a fit of giggles.

caitlyn -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:23:22 AM)
It seems pretty obvious that this sort of breaking ceremony has some positive meaning to you, and that's great. What you might want to consider, is that to some equally submissive people, it would serve as an extremely bad experience. Factor in that still a third group might find any number of places between. I feel it's a highly slippery slope to consider greater or more extreme acts, to be a sign of greater of more extreme submission. While that might be true, it might equally be untrue, or more to the point, the two may be mutually exclusive and in fact coincidental. Question to you ... would you still love and submit to your master, if he never hit you at all? If the answer is yes, then the feelings you get from being "broken", are really coincidental to the overall level of submission in your relationship. Pain for pain's sake may interest some, and horrify other ... but we should remember that the end result for both is the same thing. The only real difference is motivation, and most would agree that the motivation of others is not an easy to understand. Then again ... I may not relate at all ... having come into my young adult life, already broken. [;)]

LaTigresse -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:29:46 AM)
Another interesting take on cailyn's post, which I loved btw, how many Masters/Mistresses could still accept a submissive/slave's devotion if that sub/slave were already so broken they could not handle any pain? Simply accept them for their desire to serve and submit.

mistoferin -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:29:54 AM)
caitlyn, Did I ever mention to you that I have a son who is 19 and single, 6ft 4, good looking and is a fireman??? You are a credit to your age group

heartfeltsub -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:32:38 AM)
i know this thread has become about semantics, but i think what rose asked has more to do with another she thread she posted not too long ago about not feeling like a slave, being so busy at work and gone for 4 nights a week, that she loses her slave-mindset. And in reading the OP, that is what she says, that somehow if she were "broken", that would make that feeling of not being slave enough, of losing her slave-mindset, go away. As her Master also posted and has been saying to her repeatedly that one's sense of submission/slavery comes from within and may i humbly say, that that is the real issue that she is asking about. rose, yes (as your Master has stated) He could beat you every day and break your will, but as He has wisely stated that will make a doormat, which is not what He wants. He wants you, as you are. So may i humbly say, that instead of looking for something external to make you feel more slave-like, that you take a look at your internals to see why you feel the way that you do.

VvShadowspawnvV -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 11:54:23 AM)
Ha ha! Actually, as a mother of four, count 'em, FOUR.... part of me wishes it pleased Him to have me spayed. =/ becca

rose442 -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 1:56:22 PM)
VvShadowsSpawnvV... yes you are right. This does have to do with the other post. In some ways. I am just so frustrated. It is not getting better, if anything it is getting worse. Everyday i trust myself and Master less. I feel that i am not enough. I am not pleasing. I am not what He really thought I would be. I have a serious trust thing going on right now. And that is my biggest problem. I am severly jealous. And I am not sleeping because of it. I haven't hardly eaten in a few days now. It is getting worse everyday. And I don't see it getting better. And the reason for my trust being wacked right now, cannot be explaned. The reason i wrote "broken" is for the emotional level. I want to feel like the slave i dream of and crave. And I am not saying i want to feel what all other slaves feel. Because I am my own person. And what I feel or could feel will be different than all other slaves. rose442

Slipstreme -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 2:33:58 PM)
quote: breaking. i mean, i only know from how ever many hundreds of articles i have read about things, but i read article after article, written by people with a lot of years put into the lifestyle, participating in this activity. there seems to be a lack of formaility, and while i relish in the individuality a lifestyle such as this can be lived, i feel like in the past ... uhm it may have been a bigger deal. Again, as being someone who throughly enjoys pain from both sides of the S&M coin, I can't see where using pain to enforce submission or as punishment could work. Therefore, I don't think I could possibly beat someone senseless unless that someone wanted to be beaten senseless in the first place. That is why I wouldn't use "breaking" quote: For some, this "space beyond subspace" becomes a transcendant experience that they specifically seek for various personal reasons. This is what I seek in masochism if I can ever go that far. Again, the reason I can't fathom using pain to garner submission.

LadyJezOfTheLake -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 2:51:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rose442 How does a slave get broken by her Master if there are kids in the home? I know that is what i need to feel the slave that i want to and need to feel. The Master/slave bond is not there like i need it to be. I always have doubt, and question Master, and don't feel like i am pleasing Him at all, at any point and time, and i don't feel fulfilled. But that is my fault, i think. Or what can be done to make me fill like there is no more room for love in my heart for my Master? rose442 rose, That is a hard one! We tried having a slave with a 5 yr old child and it just did not work. We ended up placing the slave and the child into another home. Having a 24/7, M/s, Poly, BDSM, and Gorean Home and children just don't mix. Sorry I could not be of help to you on this subject but kids are such a HARD LIMIT for Me. Lady Jezabel Of The Lake

Reflectivesoul -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 3:44:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul I also kind of feel the need to point out or atleast express that within a relationship dehumanizing a partner defeats the purpose of having that partner. Every person is entitled to their own individual "me". Why the need to change them is so great often times baffles me, because in the beginning when you first find someone is it not something about that person, in who they are, that attracts you in the first place? I would hate the thought of being with someone who was merely a shell an empty box with no dreams or goals, no desires..... it would in a sense be like being with nothing at all. The idea of being with someone is to compliment the parts of us that we feel are important, enjoying another human being for their differences but at the same time delighting in the common connections between the people involved. Being able to share back and forth with someone. Where is the happiness in no differences? After a while wouldnt it become stale if someone else were always saying "what ever you wish" instead of actually having an oppinion or a desire to do something else? And not so much in a D/s aspect either, but rather in life as a whole. I know I personally hate it if I ask someone what they would like for dinner, what movies they would like to see, what places they want to go, and always getting a response of what ever you want is fine. The whole idea of asking someone else is that hello I want some input, I want you to be able to make a decision on your own, tell me what it is YOU want to do, what YOU want to see. Does that mean I give up any Dominance in doing so? No, it just means I dont want a doormat, I want someone that is able to make and stick with a thought or idea and that I want to be able to see the differences between what I might want at a particular time and what someone else may want, whats so wrong about that? ................... I snipped part of my own post from another thread because I felt that it somewhat fit what is being said here. I feel that the "breaking" of another human being is essentially dehumanizing them and taking away the one thing that they are never supposed to lose, themselves. Submission is not about being the other person it is about enhancing someone elses life by being present in it, by showing your devotion through daily activities, ie massages, chores, whatever it is that is agreed upon by you and the Dominant. Just because a beating can be taken by a submissive doesnt mean I'm going to beat them till they are a heap on the floor with no will to even get up, that would ruin and destroy any trust that submissive had.That is where the line of abuse has been crossed and thats when its time to walk away IMO. ~RS~

skalover -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 4:22:25 PM)
quote: After the initial trauma & shock had subsided that such a thing could happen in the 20th century, frustration & anger swelled thus increasing resistance that somehow makes the break sharper. The breaking involved Words, Pain & Tortures, its effectively a brainwash that if so complete everything that was before can be wiped out. These things wear the mind & body down, also sleep depravation whether self induced or forced adds to the weight of the breaking through tiredness. Eventually with the increasing tortures & whipping I could see no respite in my trying to control my own mind & body. Logic showed there was no way out & this was how life was going to be, initially the only escape was sleep as & when that came. In an endurance whipping session over 3 days I mentally quit as I would do anything for a respite or sleep escapism. That was from www.slave-aureus.com, a kinda interesting site. She claims to have been broken. Possibly information for the OP if its still what she wants.

LadiesBladewing -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 4:45:07 PM)
Get yourself together, Rose. What you are seeking won't come from a beating, or being chained in the corner, or any of the other fancy outward accoutrements that fictional stories have us call "being broken". What you are seeking is something you are denying YOURSELF, as well as your owner. You are wallowing in self-pity, and using that "pitiful me, I'm just not enough" attitude to justify doing less, and being less, than you are capable of being. The best breaking you could have would be to break yourself of the self-pity, to dig down deep into your core each time you feel it welling up, and to demand of yourself that you -give- what you have promised... which is everything. THIS is what it means to live as a -slave-, in service. You don't have the excuse of not having someone to serve... you have your owner, and your children, and your boss and/or customers... you have plenty to offer service to. Your posts talk about holding things back. Things will be held back as long as you allow yourself to hold them. If you want to let them go, then stop talking about it and -do- it. Each time you find yourself holding back, dig into your spirit and -make- yourself give just a little bit more... like sprinting that last 110 meters on an 880 meter run. Push yourself until you push past the hurt. We don't "break" people in our household. Either they are driven to serve, and serve willingly, with their full hearts, or they don't. If they don't want to serve, we don't -make- them serve (and they are encouraged to find a more suitable situation at their earliest (or our earliest convenience)... if they -do- want to serve, we support them in their quest to give the best possible service. We encourage them to push themselves beyond what they believe is their capacity. We discourage self-pity and judging oneself on fantasies or based on someone else's progress. We tell our servants, honestly and often, how they are succeeding, and offer ideas for how they may expand. The fact that they serve well is a tribute to their call to service, as much as it is a tribute to anything that we do to and for them. It sounds to me like your owner is giving you the space and the direction to give your best possible service. If you do that, the feeling of being completely and thoroughly owned will be so much a part of you that there will be no way to question it. It's up to you -- do you really want this as a way of life, or are you looking for a storybook fantasy to take you away from your job, your kids, and your reality? LZ quote: ORIGINAL: rose442 VvShadowsSpawnvV... yes you are right. This does have to do with the other post. In some ways. I am just so frustrated. It is not getting better, if anything it is getting worse. Everyday i trust myself and Master less. I feel that i am not enough. I am not pleasing. I am not what He really thought I would be. I have a serious trust thing going on right now. And that is my biggest problem. I am severly jealous. And I am not sleeping because of it. I haven't hardly eaten in a few days now. It is getting worse everyday. And I don't see it getting better. And the reason for my trust being wacked right now, cannot be explaned. The reason i wrote "broken" is for the emotional level. I want to feel like the slave i dream of and crave. And I am not saying i want to feel what all other slaves feel. Because I am my own person. And what I feel or could feel will be different than all other slaves. rose442

feastie -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 4:55:26 PM)
Break: b : to crush the spirit of c : to make tractable or submissive: as (1) past part often broke : to train (an animal) to adjust to the service or convenience of humans <a halter-broke horse> Rose, I don't believe for a moment that you want your spirit broken. I know, from reading Stoney's post, that is not what he wants from you. [Quote] VvShadowsSpawnvV... yes you are right. This does have to do with the other post. In some ways. I am just so frustrated. It is not getting better, if anything it is getting worse. Everyday i trust myself and Master less. I feel that i am not enough. I am not pleasing. I am not what He really thought I would be. I have a serious trust thing going on right now. And that is my biggest problem. I am severly jealous. And I am not sleeping because of it. I haven't hardly eaten in a few days now. It is getting worse everyday. And I don't see it getting better. And the reason for my trust being wacked right now, cannot be explaned. The reason i wrote "broken" is for the emotional level. I want to feel like the slave i dream of and crave. And I am not saying i want to feel what all other slaves feel. Because I am my own person. And what I feel or could feel will be different than all other slaves. [/Quote] Rose, your Master has said publically, in this forum, that you are EXACTLY what he wants. He doesn't make conditions, he doesn't offer anything negative about you. So, by not believing him, you're actually being disobedient. You mention you're jealous. Jealous of what? If it's making you lose sleep, then you should really seek some professional help with that. In fact, although I am no physician, you are displaying classic symptoms of depression. Call your doctor. Discuss it with him. There are some very good options available these days. Get some help, dear, before you drive this lovely man who adores you away. Stoney, if I might offer a suggestion... Get a long ACE bandage for Rose. Make her bind it about her waist each day, under her clothing. It should be tight enough so that she is constantly aware of it, but not so tight she cannot breathe or function normally. Tell her that this is her reminder that she is owned, that she is a slave. She will be reminded with every breath she takes that her body belong to another. Good luck to you both.

Reflectivesoul -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 5:05:22 PM)
quote: Stoney, if I might offer a suggestion... Get a long ACE bandage for Rose. Make her bind it about her waist each day, under her clothing. It should be tight enough so that she is constantly aware of it, but not so tight she cannot breathe or function normally. Tell her that this is her reminder that she is owned, that she is a slave. She will be reminded with every breath she takes that her body belong to another. Good luck to you both. Excellent suggestion feastie..... definately something I wouldnt have thought of, but a very good way to serve as a reminder of being owned. Well done! ( momentary hijacking sorry ) I think its awesome to see submissives pop up with such great advise on this forum. I have been involved in a lot of other chats, groups, forums n so on and its usually almost always a Dominant oriented place, I kind of feel proud to see such wonderful and open submissives that give so freely of themselves to be able to try and help someone else out of a sticky situation. Congrats to you subs that have taken the time to share your thoughts and your suggestions and a very big Thank you. grins ( I'd hug all of ya but uhhhh some dont appreciate that kinda stuff lol)

ArchangelMichael -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 5:11:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous well when i was doing all my research about collaring ceremonies, i would say about 90% of the ones i found, included breaking it was purely physical; beaten into submission. its kind of like a prove yourself its "supposed" to be the most major beating of your submission to show that you were serious about it, to start you off extremely humble from the get-go. at least, thats what i picked up. nothing mentally, just physical. kinda like initiation. I've never heard of any collaring ceremony that involves a severe beating. To me, a collaring ceremony is about the commitment and the mental aspect of the Dominant offically taking ownership and the submissive becomming owned. I don't see where that would require any sort of beating. You can always save the beating for the honeymoon. Really, I think it just depends on what the individuals involved want and it shouldn't have to follow any type of pre-conceived pattern or notion of what should be in a collaring ceremony. Weddings have certain traditions, but even those traditions can vary from region to region, religion to religion, and just among what the individuals want. I'm going to attend the collaring of a friend of mine this weekend. I'll let you know if there was a severe beating or not.

VvShadowspawnvV -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 5:11:53 PM)
rose... Ask him. Ask him if he is pleased with you. Ask him if you are "enough". And if there is a reason you feel you can't trust him... ask him about that too. i wish you well. becca

feastie -> RE: slaves being broken (5/16/2006 6:15:42 PM)
Now, concerning all this harsh beatings and all before a collar is placed... Bovine Excrement Little clue...just because ya read on the 'net, don't make it true. And even if by some small chance it were commonplace but losing ground, there is an old saying regarding change... Just because something has always been done, doesn't mean that it should continue to be done.

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