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ORIGINAL: Ceyx
For me, 'training' involves developing or bringing to the fore those traits that I find most delightful in Halcyone. Importantly, these are also the things that most please her about herself; I often say that I allow her to live as the woman she is in her heart. We're right for one another because we share the same vision of her.

I liken this sort of 'training' to training a rose (I'm an adequate gardener, so the analogy falls naturally to mind.) A rose will take its distinctive shape (climber, hybrid tea, etc.) as a result of its inner principle of growth-- what it is by nature. You can't make a rose bush into a pretzel. But it will grow better, it will flourish, with patient care and control: sometimes watering, sometimes pruning, so that the rose is as healthy and beautiful as its nature permits. This kind of loving attention doesn't make the rose bush anything other than what it is.

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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ORIGINAL: Ceyx
For me, 'training' involves developing or bringing to the fore those traits that I find most delightful in Halcyone. Importantly, these are also the things that most please her about herself; I often say that I allow her to live as the woman she is in her heart. We're right for one another because we share the same vision of her.

I liken this sort of 'training' to training a rose (I'm an adequate gardener, so the analogy falls naturally to mind.) A rose will take its distinctive shape (climber, hybrid tea, etc.) as a result of its inner principle of growth-- what it is by nature. You can't make a rose bush into a pretzel. But it will grow better, it will flourish, with patient care and control: sometimes watering, sometimes pruning, so that the rose is as healthy and beautiful as its nature permits. This kind of loving attention doesn't make the rose bush anything other than what it is.

Ahhhh....but how is this "training" accomplished? Do you make her go stand in the corner for an hour, kneeling on rice with a butt plug up her ass?.... do you beat it into her?.....or can you go to her, one adult to another and say "I really admire and value that quality and trait in you and I would love for you to work on expanding upon and accentuating it" and know that she will do that because she has a desire to please you? If it is the latter, I would suggest that what you call training and molding is merely communication between two adults that are trying to give each other the fulfillment they seek within this dynamic.

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There is nothing about beth that has changed. I only provided guidance and gave her the "freedom" to be and to act upon all of what she was when we met. I think I surprised beth with that attitude. she didn't understand the concept when I told her that's what her "training" would entail. she just was grateful that somehow, as strict as I was in other matters, she appreciated that I hated her cigarette smoking, but I wouldn't change her and require her to quit as part of the Master/slave relationship we were contemplating at the time.

Requiring change is a sure way to set yourself up for failure. Discounting all that occurred in a person's life prior to meeting them will force you to walk through a field of emotional "land minds" without a map. Leave the "breaking" and "testing" and non-play "mind-games" to fictional literature.

Training is guidance and pointing out ways where the subject of the training feels GREAT about who they are and what they are doing. They should be as proud of themselves as you are of them. You can't manipulate a person and be successful in the long term. You can't change the species of the flower you find as a bud, you can only help it blossom and bloom.

_____________________________

Merc & beth

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The ones who make it in the long term realize that it's about the connection and living life together- the Ms and Ds simply is there or it isn't.  No amount of games and tests and ritual will create something if it's not there.  And, games and tests get really tiring after a few years.  We still play and have fun, but we recognize that simply being who we are is why we're together- not what we do.

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Training, brainwashing, mind control, molding, hypnosis to make one submissive....the list goes on and on.......

Does anyone just approach this from the perspective of a Dominant personality building an existance together with a submissive personality because that is who you are as people and you have a sincere desire to find a counterpart in life that you can expand upon those qualities in yourself with?

Two ADULTS who know who they are and can function within their Dominant and submissive personalities without having to resort to a multitude of mindgames to reinforce or prove their predisposition to their nature....

When you meet someone, do you meet them and think "This is going to be the perfect match for me....as soon as I transform them into somebody else?".  Or do you say, "This is a human being who possesses the qualities that I desire in a partner and who I feel that I can communicate with as an adult and share our expectations of each other, make our compromises and have a fulfilling relationship where we both honor and respect the other"?

Am I the odd man out here? Is it the majority who believes that you can not live this lifestyle unless you are constantly incorporating headgames?

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Ahhhh....but how is this "training" accomplished? Do you make her go stand in the corner for an hour, kneeling on rice with a butt plug up her ass?.... do you beat it into her?.....or can you go to her, one adult to another and say "I really admire and value that quality and trait in you and I would love for you to work on expanding upon and accentuating it" and know that she will do that because she has a desire to please you? If it is the latter, I would suggest that what you call training and molding is merely communication between two adults that are trying to give each other the fulfillment they seek within this dynamic.

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Ahhhh....but how is this "training" accomplished? Do you make her go stand in the corner for an hour, kneeling on rice with a butt plug up her ass?.... do you beat it into her?.....

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Training, brainwashing, mind control, molding, hypnosis to make one submissive....the list goes on and on.......

Does anyone just approach this from the perspective of a Dominant personality building an existance together with a submissive personality because that is who you are as people and you have a sincere desire to find a counterpart in life that you can expand upon those qualities in yourself with?

Two ADULTS who know who they are and can function within their Dominant and submissive personalities without having to resort to a multitude of mindgames to reinforce or prove their predisposition to their nature....

When you meet someone, do you meet them and think "This is going to be the perfect match for me....as soon as I transform them into somebody else?".  Or do you say, "This is a human being who possesses the qualities that I desire in a partner and who I feel that I can communicate with as an adult and share our expectations of each other, make our compromises and have a fulfilling relationship where we both honor and respect the other"?

Am I the odd man out here? Is it the majority who believes that you can not live this lifestyle unless you are constantly incorporating headgames?

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All relationships take work eventually, after the "new" wears off.

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ORIGINAL: Reflectivesoul
I also kind of feel the need to point out or atleast express that within a relationship dehumanizing a partner defeats the purpose of having that partner. Every person is entitled to their own individual "me". Why the need to change them is so great often times baffles me, because in the beginning when you first find someone is it not something about that person, in who they are, that attracts you in the first place?
 
I would hate the thought of being with someone who was merely a shell an empty box with no dreams or goals, no desires..... it would in a sense be like being with nothing at all. The idea of being with someone is to compliment the parts of us that we feel are important, enjoying another human being for their differences but at the same time delighting in the common connections between the people involved. Being able to share back and forth with someone. Where is the happiness in no differences? After a while wouldnt it become stale if someone else were always saying "what ever you wish" instead of actually having an oppinion or a desire to do something else? And not so much in a D/s aspect either, but rather in life as a whole. I know I personally hate it if I ask someone what they would like for dinner, what movies they would like to see, what places they want to go, and always getting a response of what ever you want is fine. The whole idea of asking someone else is that hello I want some input, I want you to be able to make a decision on your own, tell me what it is YOU want to do, what YOU want to see. Does that mean I give up any Dominance in doing so? No, it just means I dont want a doormat, I want someone that is able to make and stick with a thought or idea and that I want to be able to see the differences between what I might want at a particular time and what someone else may want, whats so wrong about that? ...................   

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
You can't change the species of the flower you find as a bud, you can only help it blossom and bloom.