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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:08:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I got a law suit threat once from ASCAP just over playing radio instead of a service like MUZAK....If you don't pay, you can't play without permission.



Id sue your for using MUZAK!

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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:10:23 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo
Using it in appearances would only entitle musician to royalties paid via likes of BMI, SESAC etc. No approval is needed.


Wrong again

Ascap, BMI, etc do not cover using a song in that manner.  That would require an individual license.

Do you actually think the musicians and their lawyers do not know the applicable laws and licenses needed?


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:13:30 PM   
SilverMark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I got a law suit threat once from ASCAP just over playing radio instead of a service like MUZAK....If you don't pay, you can't play without permission.


Hell Wil, now it is like SIRUS, and has been for a long time, they have a HUGE selection of stations to choose from via satellite.
Id sue your for using MUZAK!



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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:17:03 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I got a law suit threat once from ASCAP just over playing radio instead of a service like MUZAK....If you don't pay, you can't play without permission.


Hell Wil, now it is like SIRUS, and has been for a long time, they have a HUGE selection of stations to choose from via satellite.
Id sue your for using MUZAK!




I havent had to use an elevator in anything other than a casino for ages....glad they have given building managers an option to not torture riders!


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:20:40 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I got a law suit threat once from ASCAP just over playing radio instead of a service like MUZAK....If you don't pay, you can't play without permission.



Yes, not without paying for your ASCAP license.


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:21:43 PM   
kat321


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From ASCAP at www.ascap.com

ASCAP protects the rights of its members by licensing and distributing royalties for the non-dramatic public performances of their copyrighted works. ASCAP's licensees encompass all who want to perform copyrighted music publicly. ASCAP makes giving and obtaining permission to perform music simple for both creators and users of music.

Whether your music is live, broadcast, transmitted or played via CD's or videos, your ASCAP license covers your performances.

What is a public performance? A public performance is one that occurs either in a public place or any place where people gather (other than a small circle of a family or its social acquaintances.) A public performance is also one that is transmitted to the public; for example, radio or television broadcasts, music-on-hold, cable television, and by the internet. Generally, those who publicly perform music obtain permission from the owner of the music or his representative. However, there are a few limited exceptions, (called "exemptions") to this rule. Permission is not required for music played or sung as part of a worship service unless that service is transmitted beyond where it takes place (for example, a radio or television broadcast). Performances as part of face to face teaching activity at a non-profit educational institutions are also exempt.

Thus, Bachmann can license through ASCAP, or more likely, the venue of her rally can  license with ASCAP, and the song can be used without direct permission from Petty.  HOWEVER, thus far, I have seen nothing noting whether or not Bachmann or the venue actually secured the appropriate permissions from ASCAP


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:30:37 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321
Thus, Bachmann can license through ASCAP, or more likely, the venue of her rally can  license with ASCAP, and the song can be used without direct permission from Petty.  HOWEVER, thus far, I have seen nothing noting whether or not Bachmann or the venue actually secured the appropriate permissions from ASCAP


Once again

No, No and did I mention NO.

Once it becomes part of what you are doing you start getting into Performance rights which are not covered by ASCAP.

Once again do you actually believe the musicians and their lawyers do not know what they are doing?  You know better?


< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 6/29/2011 5:33:28 PM >


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:32:16 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Theft implies they didnt provide the proper notices and royalties in a timely manner. Got any evidence of that?


The fact that Petty makes the claim suggests it.  The fact that the Bachmann campaign didn't immediately refute the claim gives it credibility.


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:35:25 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Theft implies they didnt provide the proper notices and royalties in a timely manner. Got any evidence of that?


The fact that Petty makes the claim suggests it.  The fact that the Bachmann campaign didn't immediately refute the claim gives it credibility.



Not from what Ive read. All he has done is REQUEST that it not be used. He hasnt claimed anything afaik, so there is nothing to refute.

If he did try to sue then his prior acquiesence to having it used in an identical manner would make it difficult for him to prevail anyway. There is no endorsement implied by simple playing of a record. If it were used in a commercial with Petty's image in an attempt to mislead, then he'd have a case.

An overrated band with an underused and therefore underrated lead guitar player...screw him!

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 6/29/2011 5:38:58 PM >


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:38:27 PM   
flcouple2009


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I promise you and wilbur both that my source is better than anything you have.

Google Al Schlesinger.   That would be the man who taught me the business end of this.

I guarantee that neither of you have a clue about what your talking about.


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:40:53 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

I promise you and wilbur both that my source is better than anything you have.

Google Al Schlesinger.   That would be the man who taught me the business end of this.

I guarantee that neither of you have a clue about what your talking about.




google John Scher.

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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:47:15 PM   
flcouple2009


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google your a liar,   did I mention that already?

How do I know?  Everything you've said is wrong and would get you nicely sued.

"Tom Petty is reportedly preparing to take legal action against Michele Bachmann's campaign, after she played his 1977 hit "American Girl" at her 2012 announcement rally in Iowa Monday."


Does preparing cease and desist orders sound like simply asking would you please stop?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/tom-petty-reportedly-wants-bachmann-stop-using-american-202756833.html

How much you want to bet that she doesn't use it anymore?   Let's say loser takes a month of the boards, including your sock puppets.

< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 6/29/2011 5:49:22 PM >


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 5:50:17 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

google your a liar,   did I mention that already?

How do I know?  Everything yoiu've said is wrong and would get you nicely sued.

"Tom Petty is reportedly preparing to take legal action against Michele Bachmann's campaign, after she played his 1977 hit "American Girl" at her 2012 announcement rally in Iowa Monday."


Does preparing cease and desist orders sound like simply asking would you please stop?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/tom-petty-reportedly-wants-bachmann-stop-using-american-202756833.html

How much you want to bet that she doesn't use it anymore?   Let's say loser takes a month of the boards, including your sock puppets.



I dont have any. Why would I bet whether or not she shows him the courtesy of stopping since he objected? If it goes to court and you want to bet on the outcome, game on. Till then, stfu, you dont know what youre talking about, as always.


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 6:00:40 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
I dont have any.


Balls?  That would be correct.

Court, lol.  She will stop when the cease and desist letter comes.

Come on now wilbur if you are correct and she is so in the right then surely youi would jump at this chance to get me off the boards for a month.

Or is it that you know as well as I do that your wrong and just tyring to do your usual routine of blowing smoke up everyone's ass.


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 6:04:26 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 6:18:47 PM   
kat321


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I deal with performance rights as part of my job and I haven't been fired or fined in my professional experience.

You are right that the dramatic rights are different and are not covered by ASCAP.... That would be MTI (musicals), Schirmer (ballet and opera), French (theatre), etc. By the way, that listing is in no way complete.  ASCAP also does not cover the creation of recordings of their represented members for audio, video or multimedia performances; nor copying or arranging the written works of their members.

Where things get messy in the recent situation is if Bachmann's rally was recorded for rebroadcast on the net or television. An ASCAP license is not sufficient for that. In that case individual licenses should have been secured.  No matter what, a conscientious candidate would ask a legal team to make sure everything is covered. It does not seem that Bachmann did that.

Generally artists who don't agree with the platforms of politicians have asked them to not play their music at rallies, and the politicians tend to oblige, albeit after the fact.  As far as I know, legally, the rights of either the artist or a politician on this issue (simply playing music at rallies) has not been tested in court.  Use of music in advertisement or in any sort of rebroadcast format have been argued in court, and those rulings have been for the artists.  If you or a lawyer reading this has case law that says otherwise, I'd be very interested in it.

The other thing that is telling here is that Petty and his representatives have only sent a letter; they have not commented publicly, nor has specific legal action been threatened.  You made the argument that music industry lawyers know what they are doing.  If they could recoup damages there would be a media storm around that fact- as there was with McCain and Jackson Browne and Crist and Davie Byrne.

In the end, I think you and I agree that the use of the music is wrong as it does imply some level of the artist supporting the candidate; however, if ASCAP  regulations were met and there are not recordings for rebroadcast, then there is little recourse for the artist.  Again, if you could supply case law contradicting that, it would be great.

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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 6:26:04 PM   
WyldHrt


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Interesting read on the subject:
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/intelprop/magazine/LandslideNovDec2010_Clarida.authcheckdam.pdf


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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 6:38:55 PM   
kat321


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Thanks.  That pretty much backs what I said, minus the information in the Lanham Act dealing with sound-alikes and the specific rules for parodies of which I was not familiar.

I think there is a bigger question here. Do we really want politicians in office who so blatantly look for ways to co-opt the artistic works of others for their own benefit that they twist copyright to its limits to get what they want? 

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RE: Republican Song Thief Michele Bachmann gets Called ... - 6/29/2011 7:37:22 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


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FYI... for those interested, I found the following via a quick net search:

quote:



Types of Rights and Royalties

Licenses and their corresponding royalties fall into four general categories:
 
Mechanical licenses and royalties - A mechanical license refers to permissions granted to mechanically reproduce music onto some type of media (e.g., cassette tape, CD, etc.) for public distribution. The music publisher grants permission for the musical composition to be reproduced. The mechanical royalty is paid to the recording artist, songwriter, and publisher based on the number of recordings sold.

Performance rights and royalties - A performance-rights license allows music to be performed live or broadcast. These licenses typically come in the form of a "blanket license," which gives the licensee the right to play a particular PRO's entire collection in exchange for a set fee. Licenses for use of individual recordings are also available. All-talk radio stations, for example, wouldn't have the need for a blanket license to play the PRO's entire collection. The performance royalty is paid to the songwriter and publisher when a song is performed live or on the radio.  Synchronization rights and royalties - A synchronization license is needed for a song to be reproduced onto a television program, film, video, commercial, radio, or even an 800 number phone message. It is called this because you are "synchronizing" the composition, as it is performed on the audio recording, to a film, TV commercial, or spoken voice-over. If a specific recorded version of a composition is used, you must also get permission from the record company in the form of a "master use" license. The synchronization royalty is paid to songwriters and publishers for use of a song used as background music for a movie, TV show, or commercial.  Print rights and royalties - This is a royalty paid to songwriters and publishers based on sales of printed sheet music.  In addition to these royalties, the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 brought about yet another royalty payment for songwriters and performers. This act requires that the manufacturers of digital audio recording devices and the manufacturers of blank recording media (blank cassette tapes, blank CDs, blank DVDs, etc.) pay a percentage of their sales price to the Register of Copyrights to make up for loss of sales due to the possible unauthorized copying of music. There are two funds set up where this money is funneled. One is the Sound Recording Fund, which receives two-thirds of the money. This money goes to the recording artist and record company. The other fund is the Musical Works Fund, which receives the remaining one-third of the money to split 50/50 between the publisher and the songwriter.  Foreign RoyaltiesThe licenses we mentioned above (mechanical, performance, synchronization, and print) are also issued for the use of U.S. copyrighted material in foreign countries. The foreign agents, or sub-publishers, are responsible for managing the licenses in their countries and paying royalties to the songwriter and U.S. publisher. Source:  http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-royalties4.htm




< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 6/29/2011 7:38:15 PM >


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