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Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 10:21:11 AM

cloudboy

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I have a friend who recently admitted that he is a malesub or bottom (we did not get into semantics), and that this has proven somewhat of a killer in his dating universe. Either he's not turned on by the sex he has with regular women or they are turned off by his request to "tie him up." (This would be introduced at some point, which he has varied. Its a big question for him when to bring it up.)

Now he's been in a relationship for about six months with a kind of "wild" woman who is "free spirited." When he mentioned the "tie me up" part of what he would like to do in bed, she said all the right things (sure, yes, I can do that, etc.) but never actually acted on her promises. He then pestered her to do it, and it did not go well.

He says, "she's not meeting my needs while I have met hers." (Meaning he has done things she's wanted, but she's not reciprocated.)

What I said to him was, "If she is not into something, you really can't change her. Sounds like she's trying to be cool and down with bondage because as a "free spirit" she doesn't want to come off as 'uncool' or a 'stick in the mud' -- but her actions betray someone either not turned on or turned off by bondage."

I also said, you can't really date Vanilla and then hope someone "turns" or "discovers" their kinky side. (Especially over age 35.)

What do you think, can someone like him "with the right approach" (whatever that is) lure someone into a kinky domination role?

His history and stories suggest "no."

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 6/29/2011 10:22:11 AM >

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 10:25:59 AM

Kaliko

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If she seems open to it, but hedges on actually doing it, maybe she's just a little bit uncomfortable with what to do after he's tied up. Perhaps they could watch some movies or read some stuff together so she can get some ideas. She might be willing to do it, but if it's not her thing, she might not have fantasized about it enough to give the actual act much consideration.

(in reply to cloudboy)

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 10:28:18 AM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I also said, you can't really date Vanilla and then hope someone "turns" or "discovers" their kinky side. (Especially over age 35.)

LOL - oh, so very much not true.

(in reply to cloudboy)

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 10:29:29 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
What do you think, can someone like him "with the right approach" (whatever that is) lure someone into a kinky domination role?

Well, I have no idea if "someone like him" can do it. It is, of course, unequivocally possible. Carol managed it. I don't really see how you could do it in a tit for tat mode though. He'd have to be already satisfied with the vanilla sex in order to make a more healthy "joint exploration" possible.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 10:31:52 AM

LadyPact

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Unfortunately, the question has no universal answer because it's going to be different depending on who you are dealing with. Some people do become later in life Dominants or tops and others just aren't turned on by it in any way and don't want to participate in it even to please someone that they are involved with.

Does approach matter? Yes, I think it does. In My opinion, the worst thing thing that a kinky person can do with a non kinky person is try to push them into it or nag them about it. All that does is build a resistance in the other person, making them less likely to be willing to do it. There are some things that I am willing to do if I come to the decision on My own. Try to force Me to do it, especially any form of emotional blackmail, and you'll probably go to your grave before you'll get My participation.

I'd probably suggest him getting a copy of "When Someone You Love Is Kinky" so that she can read it and come to her determination in her own time. It may be a while or it might never happen. It completely depends on how open she really is to it.

_____________________________

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 10:42:22 AM

HannahLynHeather

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sure, anybody is a potential fucking kinkster. but unless he picks the right her, it isn't going to happen. you can't create a sub or dom/me. the seed has got to be there to begin with. all you can do is bring the fucking idea up, and then encourage them to go in whatever direction they happen to want to go.

you can't fucking mold a nilla being fucking introduced sub or dom/me, it doesn't fucking matter, for the first little while they have to guide the whole fucking thing, you have to give them a taste of it, let them sample the shit they are fucking interested in up front and ignore what you are into till they decide they are into it. if they like that shit and want to go on, then they have made that magical fucking leap from nilla to newb and you're off to the fucking races, but one fucking wrong step at the early stages of the conversion can fuck the whole thing up.

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 10:48:36 AM

LillyBoPeep

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

If she seems open to it, but hedges on actually doing it, maybe she's just a little bit uncomfortable with what to do after he's tied up.

that is a possibility

also, hey -- she may be open to kink, but she's a bottom/sub and not really interested in topping/being Dominant.
i'm sure he has other needs besides being tied up; pestering someone about something isn't really the way to go -- maybe he can come up with some other lighter activities that might make it an easier move to make?

OOR, he could sit her down and try having a heart-to-heart about it. "i'm sorry for pestering you, but i hope that we can have a chat about an issue that's important to me." something like that, i dunno.

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 11:18:31 AM

agirl

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Can't really say.

I do know that there's plenty of things that might *turn me on* ONCE........but that I'd not be driven to bother with again.

Let's put it this way.........it'd take M to drive it for me to find it sexually attractive, but not inandofitself.

In fact much of what we do would leave me stone cold if it wasn't for M. I actually have a very small window of things that turn me on. They are the things that are super-guaranteed to, probably. Add M into the picture and that window get's flung wide open because he is just.....sex in a gingham hankie.

It's quite funny really, because I'm a *free-spirit and wild* but all the same, it's not water-tight that anybody can tap into that......lol

agirl

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 11:24:00 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

What do you think, can someone like him "with the right approach" (whatever that is) lure someone into a kinky domination role?

His history and stories suggest "no."

No guarantee that this might work but it is worth a shot and at this point what does he have to lose? He could tie her up and then tease her for quite a while, you know not make it unpleasant for her but just tease her and turn her on without letting her orgasm, then untie her and maybe have handcuffs ready, if she's a bit of an adventurous free spirit, she just might grab them and tie him up and repay in kind, it also might help her to get over the "spooky" feeling of trying something and not being sure how to do it.... Pestering is always a bad idea because it tends to make people more aware and they feel like they're under pressure.

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(in reply to cloudboy)

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 11:40:01 AM

ThundersCry

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Never met one that...couldn`t...
Personally? I would bind her wrist and then...play. Then explain myself in as few words as I can -L-

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 12:23:32 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

sure, anybody is a potential fucking kinkster. but unless he picks the right her, it isn't going to happen. you can't create a sub or dom/me. the seed has got to be there to begin with. all you can do is bring the fucking idea up, and then encourage them to go in whatever direction they happen to want to go.

you can't fucking mold a nilla being fucking introduced sub or dom/me, it doesn't fucking matter, for the first little while they have to guide the whole fucking thing, you have to give them a taste of it, let them sample the shit they are fucking interested in up front and ignore what you are into till they decide they are into it. if they like that shit and want to go on, then they have made that magical fucking leap from nilla to newb and you're off to the fucking races, but one fucking wrong step at the early stages of the conversion can fuck the whole thing up.

I don't even think it's that, necessarily.

I'm not that kinky desite what Jeff says :)........but while a bit of a spanking by any old body wouldn't bother me ( yeah, why not?)......pissing inside of me, branding me or stapling my gob shut just isn't something *any old body* is likely to get me to be involved with. No matter how *experienced* I am in having done various things....it doesn't make me any more likely to go there with anyone else.

Basically, I CAN (clearly) do all manner of kinky stuff.........but it's brought about because of M and I together, not because I'm as kinky as a nightjar.

agirl

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 12:31:49 PM

DesFIP

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Pestering is the one thing guaranteed to never have it happen.
It's the ultimate turn off.

He wants to do this really low key. Wait a while, which is not two days but several weeks. And then have something non-scary like some scarves. And then "Honey, I would really like it if you would tie my wrists to the bedposts and then ride me.

You don't want to pull out implements of ass destruction, specialty sex toys, cbt stuff, chastity stuff, and you don't want to use buzz words like torture, abuse, dominant or submissive. Just low key and be grateful afterwards. Tell her he knows it was a stretch to do this, he appreciates it a lot, and he would like in return for her giving him such a relaxing time, to rub her feet and help her relax. No sex, just doing something nice for her.

But if she has hidden dominant depths, she won't feel safe revealing them to someone who is telling her what to do to him. Someone who gets whiny when he doesn't immediately get his way.

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 12:59:46 PM

LadyHibiscus

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Here's the thing. I am one of those that was a perv at an early age. But if I don't feel it, I just don't feel it. I can be offered an uber pain slut, but if he/she/ze doesn't light my fire? It's not happening.

I am all for the book LP suggested, or (ew) that Screw the Roses book that everyone but me likes.

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 1:17:26 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Pestering is the one thing guaranteed to never have it happen.
It's the ultimate turn off.

He wants to do this really low key. Wait a while, which is not two days but several weeks. And then have something non-scary like some scarves. And then "Honey, I would really like it if you would tie my wrists to the bedposts and then ride me.

You don't want to pull out implements of ass destruction, specialty sex toys, cbt stuff, chastity stuff, and you don't want to use buzz words like torture, abuse, dominant or submissive. Just low key and be grateful afterwards. Tell her he knows it was a stretch to do this, he appreciates it a lot, and he would like in return for her giving him such a relaxing time, to rub her feet and help her relax. No sex, just doing something nice for her.

But if she has hidden dominant depths, she won't feel safe revealing them to someone who is telling her what to do to him. Someone who gets whiny when he doesn't immediately get his way.

I'd far rather be badgered than badger.

Actually, I think it's likely to be far easier for a girl to get a guy to do *norty* things to her,than vice versa, in general. Not impossible, but possibly harder.

agirl

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See how easy it can be?

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 1:36:43 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Here's the thing. I am one of those that was a perv at an early age. But if I don't feel it, I just don't feel it. I can be offered an uber pain slut, but if he/she/ze doesn't light my fire? It's not happening.

I am all for the book LP suggested, or (ew) that Screw the Roses book that everyone but me likes.

I've never read a single bdsm book in my life....maybe I should have.....lol

M says I'm pervy and wild (I disagree a bit on that).....But, perhaps. Obviously it took a far pervier bloke to bleed it out of me. Not to mention an amount of years.

Goodness, I used to shudder if he said the word *cunt*. And anal sex was difficult, scary and painful for me. Now it's just a bit painful...........lol

I just had to meet the right bloke.....all my filthiness has seeped out now.

Life is good in the herb garden.

agitl

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 4:19:25 PM

StrongSpirit

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In my experience:

1. You can not MAKE someone dominant or submissive. The process I will describe below is not very powerful and requires the participant to concentrate and do a lot of hard work. You need not just a willing participant, but a motivated one. Despite decades of research (mostly by crazy religious fanatics), there is no way to REMOVE an existing preference.

2. If someone truly wants to become dominant or submissive, they can do it. Basically, you masturbate while reading/watching tons of the appropriate kind of porn . This will not remove an existing preference, but it can add a new preference. That is, it won't turn a straight man gay (or vice versa), but it can make anyone bisexual, at least to a certain degree.

3. For BDSM it is easier if the participants are straight. That way you ensure that the man becomes dominant by showing him porn where a guy dominates women. If the participant is gay, they really have to focus to ensure they end up with the desired proclivity instead of the reverse.

4. This process works better with younger people that don't have long established patterns. Even with an 18 year old, it is a relatively weak result. You get someone that likes it, not NEEDS it.

(in reply to agirl)

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 5:53:16 PM

Madame4a

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I HATE that book! Yea... I'm not the only one... that said, I'm sure its good for someone.. and when it came out, there were so few books on the subject...

never cared for the author either...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Here's the thing. I am one of those that was a perv at an early age. But if I don't feel it, I just don't feel it. I can be offered an uber pain slut, but if he/she/ze doesn't light my fire? It's not happening.

I am all for the book LP suggested, or (ew) that Screw the Roses book that everyone but me likes.

On another note.. I actually think its highly unlikely to make someone into a perv... 1 in 100 maybe... who hasn't discovered something they really like.. but the odds aren't good...

why doesn't your friend meet women in non vanilla settings?

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You're crazy bitch
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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 5:55:31 PM

Madame4a

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"3. For BDSM it is easier if the participants are straight. That way you ensure that the man becomes dominant by showing him porn where a guy dominates women. If the participant is gay, they really have to focus to ensure they end up with the desired proclivity instead of the reverse. "

Really? how does that work.. sounds like some kind of conditioning... why is it easier if the participants are straight.. and how then do you account for various interests in all kinds of porn... as in.. I love straight porn and gay male porn... lesbian porn, mostly fake, doesn't do a thing for me...

wow.. that is the most amazing statement...

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 6:09:25 PM

LadyPact

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I'm glad this came up. I'm not one of those who consider "Screw the Roses" the BDSM bible that so many do. It definitely has it's good points, especially those sections for the beginner on human anatomy, starting toy making, etc. From a practical standpoint, just about anybody with two years in the scene should have picked up the basics that the book covers. As for Myself, I've never been terribly thrilled with the mixture of fiction and non fiction in the same pages, but that's just Me.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Relationship Advice -- Can she get Kinky? - 6/29/2011 6:12:58 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I also said, you can't really date Vanilla and then hope someone "turns" or "discovers" their kinky side. (Especially over age 35.)

I disagree... in my view "Vanilla" applies to one who (i) has no interest in kink, and (ii) would reject a willing kinky partner -- not one that's simply not been given exposure/opportunity. I've seen success stories between kinksters and non-kinksters.

quote:

...can someone like him "with the right approach" (whatever that is) lure someone into a kinky domination role?

Sure... but as another has stated, the "seed" needs to be there for it to grow. In terms of "approach"?!! He simply needs to state, when meeting those he's unsure of and sexually/romantically interested in, that prefers stong, dominant, controlling women. One where said "seed" is present, will jump all over that!!!

As an aside, from a societal standpoint, I do think male subs/slaves have it harder than female subs/slaves in terms of general acceptance.

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