RE: Independance Day Claim Debunked (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Independance Day Claim Debunked (7/1/2011 11:39:25 AM)

So..........brainwashing and rain.  




Marini -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 11:50:35 AM)

Sanity, the Republicans are in worse shape than I thought, if this is the best topic you could come up with.

Happy 4th to you!




Sanity -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 12:00:27 PM)


Marini

Youve got that exactly backwards

That was a Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaarvard "study"

A bunch of Liberal nutcases came up with that

"Mamas dont let your babys grow up to be Republicans..."

And happy Independence day to you

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

Sanity, the Republicans are in worse shape than I thought, if this is the best topic you could come up with.

Happy 4th to you!




slvemike4u -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 12:02:01 PM)

A study,done by a professor at Collarme U(me) has concluded,beyond a shadow of a doubt,that Sanity is responsible for 80%(give or take 5% depending solely of Brains contributions)of the bullshit contained within Politics and Religion.
This is an astounding percentage...leading one observer to wonder whiter or not Sanity should be barred from any future 4th of July celebrations.One participant suggested that while that might be too harsh...a 5 years suspension was certainly in order.
The commissioner of taste and logic has not yet weighed in on the matter.We await developments.




Musicmystery -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 12:03:37 PM)

quote:

That was a Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaarvard "study"

A bunch of Liberal nutcases came up with that


No. They came up with this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The part you omitted tells the real story, not the spin you quoted:

"The political right has been more successful in appropriating American patriotism and its symbols during the 20th century. Survey evidence also confirms that Republicans consider themselves more patriotic than Democrats. According to this interpretation, there is a political congruence between the patriotism promoted on Fourth of July and the values associated with the Republican party. Fourth of July celebrations in Republican dominated counties may thus be more politically biased events that socialize children into Republicans," write Harvard Kennedy School Assistant Professor David Yanagizawa-Drott and Bocconi University Assistant Professor Andreas Madestam.





Politesub53 -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 12:03:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Signed a small town guy who isnt a Republican...........OR a Democrat.


Steady on Will...... You are starting to sound like Popeye. [8D]

Well, polite. I'm definitely not as far to the liberal side as you are (which is cool) but neither an I very far on the conservative end of the spectrum. What else would you call Me?


I was messing with you, hence the smiley. I am also right of centre as any Uk poster will tell you.




Sanity -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 12:08:14 PM)


No... THIS [;)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: kat321

Right now this is a report by two Harvard profs, but it is neither published nor peer reviewed.  Further, check out this brief on their methodology:

"In their paper, the researchers use a simple but novel strategy to address these problems: they use historical data on rainfall on Fourth of July. When it rains children and their parents are less likely to participate and the events are often cancelled. Moreover, since rain is a random event, some children growing up experience nice weather and are more likely to celebrate, while others are hit by bad weather making it less likely that they join the festivities. This allows the researchers to isolate the effect of attending the celebrations from other important factors such as family background and education. "    (http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/articles/4th-july-paper-david-yanagizawa-drott)

From what I can tell, the study estimates the attendance of a given population of 3-18 year-olds at 4th of July parades from 1920 through 1990 via the amount of rainfall on the 4th.  That data is mathematically correlated with state-wide political preferences throughout election cycles in the same time-frame. This is how the study matches parade attendance with political preference; it's not about individuals their parade attendance and how they voted, it's about assumed cohorts. The study also attempts to mathematically account for co-variants such as race (White and non-White), education (high school education + some college or college education ONLY), gender, and marital status.  Notice that co-variants are measured on a binary scale- either one or the other. Many categories are left out including the political ideology of the child's family.  Also, I am not sure about comparing the parade attendance of a 16 year-old with a 5 year-old.  One is likely to be more affected than another, and again, the study doesn't account for this.

On the chance that this study holds water, there is a small percentage difference in favor of conservatives dependent on whether kids attended parades when they were young.  Also, if the methodology holds up, I expect conservatives will stop whining about the liberal bias of colleges and universities because, as we all now know from this study, a liberal professor cannot possibly change the political affiliation of an impressionable college student since a student's political ideology is fixed for life based on the attendance or non-attendance at Independence Day parades (sarcasm intended).

For those interested, the entire report can be found here:  http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dyanagi/Research/FourthOfJuly.pdf





Musicmystery -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 1:36:43 PM)

Here's my question then....if it's not a study, neither published nor peer reviewed....why the fuck is it "news," and why is anyone quoting it?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 2:20:16 PM)

FR

Amazing that such shoddy work could come out of Harvard.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 2:21:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Here's my question then....if it's not a study, neither published nor peer reviewed....why the fuck is it "news," and why is anyone quoting it?


Because the guys who wrote it are promoting it and sourcing it as "Harvard".




Musicmystery -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 2:34:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Here's my question then....if it's not a study, neither published nor peer reviewed....why the fuck is it "news," and why is anyone quoting it?


Because the guys who wrote it are promoting it and sourcing it as "Harvard".

Begs the question. Surely those reporting it as "news" aren't displaying much by way of journalistic standards.




outhere69 -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 2:47:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt
You can stop foaming at the mouth, Sanity, I'm not a democrat.

As to the article, I grew up in small town Ohio, where there were always huge picnics and such on July 4th. The town itself was mostly republican, so it's not surprising that more of the kids grew up to be republicans.  I somehow doubt the fireworks, parades and picnics on one day had more to do with it than what the kids heard from their parents and their friends' parents every day.

Same with me, including a stint in small town Maine.  I marched in a whole bunch of July 4th parades.  Boy, did we crank up the John Philips Sousa!  But I ain't Republican.

Of all the celebrations I attended, and later marched in, I didn't hear anything about democrats or republicans.  That's a major difference than now, where a stash of vocal folks would say only god-fearing conservative republicans are patriotic.

I find it weird that parade attendance was an indicator, as I don't think it means any about someone's patriotism.  Could mean you've got kids in the parades, or riding horses, floats, etc.  I generally stay away from parades nowadays because I hate the traffic jams that result, and the need for getting there early to stake a viewing spot.  If I lived on the route I'd be out there in no time...probably yelling at kids to get off the lawn! [:D]

Oh yeah, wonder how they explain the good attendance in Orange/San Diego counties, where the marine layer makes a fireworks display an iffy proposition.  Both extremely conservative counties, but the display attendance ebbs and flows with the forecast.




kat321 -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 4:00:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Rather than delve into your silly false dichotomies, a better plan would be to examine public funding options and on the personal level consider sending our young adults to get an education at more balanced institutions vs. the very expensive ideological indoctrination / brain washing they would receive at certain other institutions



This is the misinformation I figured someone would bring into the mix. Your assertion that colleges indoctrinate students into a particular political ideology, as much as is repeated by certain pundits, has been debunked by multiple studies- most funded by either conservative or bipartisan organizations.  Brief summaries of two of these studies with bibliographic information is given below.

"Mariani and Hewitt (2008) utilized Higher Education Research Institute data to perform a longitudinal study exploring changes in students’ political ideology during their college years. An analysis of survey responses from 6,807 students at 38 colleges at the start of their freshman year in 1999 and then again at the end of their senior year in 2003 suggested participants tended to become more liberal during their college years, but at rates similar to the U.S. population of the same age range not attending college. Additionally, there was no evidence indicating that institutions with more liberal faculty fostered any additionally liberalism in their students. Furthermore, Kemmelmeier, Danielson and Basten (2005) explored student success as a function of ideology. Two significant and related findings emerged from analysis of their data collected from a cohort of 5,534 students over four years at a major public university. First, in disciplines that tend to attract liberal students (e.g. sociology, American studies, and cultural anthropology) there was no relationship between students’ political views and the grades they received. Second, in disciplines that attract conservative students (e.g. economics and business), conservative students actually made higher grades than their more liberal peers, by a factor of 0.25 on a four-point grading scale. Such findings suggest that conservative students are not having their grades regularly penalized due to their beliefs."   (bold added)  Summary taken from http://www.facultyfocus.com/articles/trends-in-higher-education/political-bias-in-the-classroom-perception-and-reality/

Kemmelmeier, M., Danielson, C., & Basten, J. (2005). What’s in a grade? Academic success and political orientation. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin. 31, 1386-1399.
Mariani, M. D. & Hewitt, G. J. (2008). Indoctrination U.? Faculty ideology and changes in student political orientation. PS: Political Science and Politics, 41(4).
No one doubts that there are more left that right leaning faculty in university classrooms; however, the indoctrination which conservatives believe goes on in those classrooms does not exist.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 8:15:52 PM)

kat, dont try to confuse Sanity with facts. Rush has already told him what the TWUE story is.




Sanity -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 8:44:53 PM)


Flew right over your head that she tried to use a college faculty newsletter to try to prove her point, didnt it...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

kat, dont try to confuse Sanity with facts. Rush has already told him what the TWUE story is.




slvemike4u -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 8:57:28 PM)

Lol,this from the man who will use Faux News to try to prove his point.....do you ever feel shame ?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/1/2011 9:40:08 PM)

It's not a newsletter Sanity, It's a Journal.

Christ on a Crutch pay attention and read stuff or you might look ignorant.




Sanity -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/2/2011 5:57:51 AM)


Its a fucking newsletter

Regardless of what you call it though, there couldnt be a more biased source to go to for that

Utterly ridiculous, lets ask the far left university types to rule on whether or not they are biased... [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

It's not a newsletter Sanity, It's a Journal.

Christ on a Crutch pay attention and read stuff or you might look ignorant.




ArizonaBossMan -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/2/2011 5:59:22 AM)

Of course this makes sense. Liberals constantly put down our country and apologize to any dictator or potentate (or anybody with a french accent) for anything.




Musicmystery -> RE: Independance Day Is For Conservatives (7/2/2011 7:39:13 AM)

Always insightful analysis.

An amazing mind.




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