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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
So, we should now sentence people based upon how emotionally upsetting a crime is? We should let our emotional states dictate justice? I thought we had a court system to give justice a less emotional edge, and Lady Justice is supposed to be blind. In other words, justice is supposed to be not meted out based upon our human prejudices.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Should they be? No. Unfortunately, reality is often far from the way things should be. 

Yeah, I noticed that on another thread that is going on right now. I think sometimes people think of babies and they forget everything else because it is abhorrent to hurt someone so helpless. It is hard to sometimes see beyond that to other things, like elements of a crime, etc etc etc.

We almost never hear anyone argue for prostitutes.... many of them being children, also.

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Self defense is obviously one. Being a mental and emotional wreck because you’ve had your head bashed around for twenty years could be another (and a case for self defense can be made here as well).

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Though some people cant defend themselves, which is where I take exception

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SilverMark makes a good point that every case will not fit into a neat black and white package. We see in gray and that’s why we have the mish-mash of laws, rules and judgments we have now. What do we do about the case of the long abused woman lashing out at her abuser? Well, in such cases it is a question of whether or not it is murder. A murder is a homicide but a homicide isn’t necessarily a murder. There is such a thing as justifiable homicide. Self defense is obviously one. Being a mental and emotional wreck because you’ve had your head bashed around for twenty years could be another (and a case for self defense can be made here as well).

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I was contemplating something, and that is how valuable human life is and how we decide which human life is valuable and which isn't...

I wanted to ask a question, do you think that it matters who is murdered when assessing a sentence for a murderer? In other words, do age, gender, or socioeconomic class of a murder victim somehow mean more prison time for the person who committed the crime... Forget the kind of murder it is, just looking at the victim of the crime alone, do you think there are some people that matter more than others?

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Of course some people are worth more than others.  Salaries and net worth are two ways of gauging worth monetarily.

So if a guy murders a mother of 5 and a CEO, the sentence for the CEO should be more?

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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Though some people cant defend themselves, which is where I take exception

I don't understand. A person who cannot defend themself is likely to be the murder victim, not the accused murderer.

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But those things go directly to intent and motive, which are elements of a crime. Those are the things we want to know before charging someone..

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But here is why I call you a bleeding heart.  Human life is not precious.

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ORIGINAL: Marc2b

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But those things go directly to intent and motive, which are elements of a crime. Those are the things we want to know before charging someone..

Yes. I said that such things are appropriate in both the investigation phase and (if charges are laid) the trial phase. But once a guilty verdict for murder has been rendered, we should not discriminate either in favor of or against the victim becaue society judges them to be more or less valuable than others.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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But here is why I call you a bleeding heart.  Human life is not precious.

I am wondering, where did I claim it was "precious" on this thread?

I happen to think it is, but that isn't what this thread is about

Wow...ok...read your own thread.  Read the first line about "how valuable human life is".  Value has to be defined.  You know Julia, you can be very frustrating for anyone who charges by the hour.

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Say, two big stupid apes fighting to the death vs. one big ape savagely beating a much smaller primate to death...

Two different crimes, with differing shades of gray

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Unfortunately, we do.... you see it happen every day.

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ORIGINAL: lockedaway

snip

But here is why I call you a bleeding heart.  Human life is not precious.  Some of it is but that is a narrow population.  Yes, the Edison's the Saulks, the Pope John Paul II's, the Christs, the Ghandis, the Marconis of the world have all made invaluable contributions to human life and I would submit to you that their lives were all indeed precious. 

The next group are the people that basically just live their lives.  They are independent, they are law abiding, they contribute to the general scheme that makes society run and they have a value to the community.  Certainly, their lives are deeply precious to the small circle they impact on; friends, family, business people, etc.  But outside of that sphere of influence, they are to their government and to the rest of the world.......a number.

The next are the people that basically just live but they take from the general scheme that makes society run and so they are an anchor to society.  Ok...they get by, they don't really live independently because they need a constant handout, perhaps they are law abiding, perhaps not so much.  They exist.  They eat, live, breed, shit and sleep and they take more than they are entitled to.  Are they "precious".  Fuck no.  It is just.......................................life.

The next group of people are those whose lives are antithetical to human life; murderers, drug pushers, extortionists, pedophiles, rapists, genocidal dictators, serial killers.  Clearly, this group is an extreme and, just like the lives that are admittedly precious because of their contributions you would think that the number of this opposing side of the spectrum would be just as narrow.  It is not.  This extreme makes up a fairly large percentage of our population.  Are they "precious"?  No...and when I am at the court house and I hear of one of these people ending up dead in the bathroom or thrown off of a tier, I am not the only one that shrugs and says "eh....one less to deal with."  No...the judge does, the bailiffs do, the court staff does and more. 

Precious life is precious because of its rarity.  In order to become precious, it takes a great deal of work and self actualization.  People have to craft themselves into something precious and that just doesn't happen all that often.  Most life is exactly that.........life.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I do think the nature of the victim matters. There is something especially heinous in the murder of a helpless innocent. Yes. The life of the toddler playing on the front porch is worth more than the life of the useless gangbanger the other useless gangbangers missed, when they killed the kid.

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Wow...ok...read your own thread.  Read the first line about "how valuable human life is".  Value has to be defined.  You know Julia, you can be very frustrating for anyone who charges by the hour.