RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important?

RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 8:43:17 AM)
~fast reply~ We also need to remember, we don't hear about every single murder that happens every day. Most people only hear about the ones that the news media thinks will make a good story. That doesn't really account for a high percentages of the murders that occur every day. The thing is that the news media's choices tend to skew the way people see what is going on. The media doesn't tell us about a lot of murders that occur, so it isn't really an accurate picture.

lockedaway -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 8:53:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub quote: ORIGINAL: lockedaway snip But here is why I call you a bleeding heart. Human life is not precious. Some of it is but that is a narrow population. Yes, the Edison's the Saulks, the Pope John Paul II's, the Christs, the Ghandis, the Marconis of the world have all made invaluable contributions to human life and I would submit to you that their lives were all indeed precious. The next group are the people that basically just live their lives. They are independent, they are law abiding, they contribute to the general scheme that makes society run and they have a value to the community. Certainly, their lives are deeply precious to the small circle they impact on; friends, family, business people, etc. But outside of that sphere of influence, they are to their government and to the rest of the world.......a number. The next are the people that basically just live but they take from the general scheme that makes society run and so they are an anchor to society. Ok...they get by, they don't really live independently because they need a constant handout, perhaps they are law abiding, perhaps not so much. They exist. They eat, live, breed, shit and sleep and they take more than they are entitled to. Are they "precious". Fuck no. It is just.......................................life. The next group of people are those whose lives are antithetical to human life; murderers, drug pushers, extortionists, pedophiles, rapists, genocidal dictators, serial killers. Clearly, this group is an extreme and, just like the lives that are admittedly precious because of their contributions you would think that the number of this opposing side of the spectrum would be just as narrow. It is not. This extreme makes up a fairly large percentage of our population. Are they "precious"? No...and when I am at the court house and I hear of one of these people ending up dead in the bathroom or thrown off of a tier, I am not the only one that shrugs and says "eh....one less to deal with." No...the judge does, the bailiffs do, the court staff does and more. Precious life is precious because of its rarity. In order to become precious, it takes a great deal of work and self actualization. People have to craft themselves into something precious and that just doesn't happen all that often. Most life is exactly that.........life. So, someone murders your mom, dad, child, pick one, and since they are not someone who changed the world, the loss of their life is not as big a loss because they are not as precious as say, Mother Theresa? Wow...re-read my post. I don't know where the fuck you got that. All life is equal in the eyes of imposing justice for the offense of murder. There are mitigating factors and absolute defenses. Do you agree? The rest of my post dealt with the value of human life and had nothing to do with murder.

thishereboi -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 8:57:13 AM)
I know it shouldn't but it does to me. I am going to feel a whole lot worse if I hear about a child being killed compared to an adult.

DomImus -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 8:57:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania What I mean, I suppose, is that do you feel the penalty for premeditating the murder of a child should get you more prison time than murdering a prostitute.... lets say the facts of the crime are exactly the same, same sort of premeditation, same murder weapon, same exact crime... just one is a kid, the other a whore.... is the kid more valuable to the system? Should they be? In theory, no. That's what the blindfold on the justice babe is all about. But in real terms crimes against the very young (or the very old) always elicit greater anger and emotion from people - including other criminals. Justice is supposed to be blind but it rarely is.

lockedaway -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 8:58:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Wow...ok...read your own thread. Read the first line about "how valuable human life is". Value has to be defined. You know Julia, you can be very frustrating for anyone who charges by the hour. I never assigned value as being "precious"... stop putting words into my posts that are not there.... If you want to join the discussion and answer with your opinion, great! If you just want to assign a position to me that I have not taken on this thread, I am not interested in your posts... State YOUR position, not mine I did. Change your hypothesis about how valuable life is and use the word precious. They are almost, although not entirely, synonymous. If you are going to post, learn to write. Your post assumes facts not in evidence, to wit that life is valuable. In voicing my opinion, I can seize on any assumption you make. I addressed your thread about whether murder should be penalized on some sort of sliding scale and I addressed your statement about life being valuable. And I called you a bleeding heart liberal and I'm right about that too. :)

juliaoceania -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 8:59:14 AM)
quote: The rest of my post dealt with the value of human life and had nothing to do with murder. Which is not on topic to the thread... which was why maybe it was not addressed in the responses you have been getting.

LaTigresse -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 9:02:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania What I mean, I suppose, is that do you feel the penalty for premeditating the murder of a child should get you more prison time than murdering a prostitute.... lets say the facts of the crime are exactly the same, same sort of premeditation, same murder weapon, same exact crime... just one is a kid, the other a whore.... is the kid more valuable to the system? Should they be? Legally it should not matter. According to our legal system, that is so tied into our media, which does a fabulous job of playing on people's heart and drama strings......it matters very much.

lockedaway -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 9:02:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I was contemplating something, and that is how valuable human life is and how we decide which human life is valuable and which isn't... I wanted to ask a question, do you think that it matters who is murdered when assessing a sentence for a murderer? In other words, do age, gender, or socioeconomic class of a murder victim somehow mean more prison time for the person who committed the crime... Forget the kind of murder it is, just looking at the victim of the crime alone, do you think there are some people that matter more than others? Not on topic? "how valuable life is" is the underpinning of your ridiculous thread. Wow, you are about as perceptive as Joether. Your thread is played out. Come up with another one but have me proof read it first.

juliaoceania -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 9:03:44 AM)
quote: Not on topic? "how valuable life is" is the underpinning of your ridiculous thread. Wow, you are about as perceptive as Joether. Your thread is played out. Come up with another one but have me proof read it first. It is about the relative value of human life as applied by law, it is not about the intrinsic value of human life. I know it maybe hard for you to understand the difference, but everyone else seems to get it.

thishereboi -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 9:06:10 AM)
quote: Neither gender nor race nor age nor ethnicity should play a role and it doesn't. Yes it does, they are called hate crimes.

Arpig -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 9:06:27 AM)
It does matter, but it should not.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 9:06:53 AM)
I did reread it, and I still see it as you saying that someone who impacts the larger world is more precious than someone who impacts those who love them. If that is not what you meant to say, my apologies. There are mitigating factors. There are factors that make no sense to me too. A friends son was murdered, shot as he rode his bike from his dads house to his moms house. The kid who did it said he wanted to see what it felt like to shoot someone. Since all the kid did was shoot and kill Tommy, and he did not rob him, the case could not be tried as a death penalty case. Funny thing is, Tommy was just as dead.

juliaoceania -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 9:07:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania What I mean, I suppose, is that do you feel the penalty for premeditating the murder of a child should get you more prison time than murdering a prostitute.... lets say the facts of the crime are exactly the same, same sort of premeditation, same murder weapon, same exact crime... just one is a kid, the other a whore.... is the kid more valuable to the system? Should they be? Legally it should not matter. According to our legal system, that is so tied into our media, which does a fabulous job of playing on people's heart and drama strings......it matters very much. I think this is what I was thinking about when I made the thread. When we talk about crimes such as homicide I notice that people cannot get past their emotional reactions to discuss elements of a crime. They let their emotions cloud their logic about a crime that is committed. It is very easy to taint jury pools with reporting about cases, and in many cases reports can be wrong... because the intent is to sensationalize rather than inform. I do not watch crime news as a result, because to be honest, I resent my heart strings being played with.

tazzygirl -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 10:26:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania What I mean, I suppose, is that do you feel the penalty for premeditating the murder of a child should get you more prison time than murdering a prostitute.... lets say the facts of the crime are exactly the same, same sort of premeditation, same murder weapon, same exact crime... just one is a kid, the other a whore.... is the kid more valuable to the system? Should they be? Legally it should not matter. According to our legal system, that is so tied into our media, which does a fabulous job of playing on people's heart and drama strings......it matters very much. I agree LT, it shouldnt matter.

kdsub -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 11:58:08 AM)
As I posted earlier…circumstances should count. There is a difference between the murder of a defenseless child and a prostitute. That is if the child and the prostitute were both killed for the same reason. Say a rapist decides to rape a child and hide the crime by murder…and rape a prostitute and hide the crime by murder what are the differences? The prostitute has chosen a profession that has put her in harms way… the child has not….The prostitute can and should be aware of the danger and take appropriate safety measures… the child is helpless and has not made a choice at all. Finally as with civil cases the loss of potential life and wellness makes a difference in the severity of the settlement and should for the severity of a capital crime. All the above said I am for both crimes being punishable by death…but if as is the trend… there is no death penalty I believe the killer of a child should have the longer sentence or one with no parole simply because the crime is more heinous. Butch

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 3:08:53 PM)
no /thread

tazzygirl -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 4:07:42 PM)
The definitive last word, are you willbe?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 4:11:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl The definitive last word, are you willbe? yup. [:D]

tazzygirl -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 4:19:08 PM)
lol.... I so do enjoy your fantasy world. [;)]

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Murder Victims - Who is More Important? (7/1/2011 4:21:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl lol.... I so do enjoy your fantasy world. [;)] Without reading the thread I guarantee that the answers are either "no", "it shouldnt but it does", or PA/Rule posting some conspiracy nonsense. So whats the point. [/thread]

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