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RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/5/2011 4:50:13 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Once one understands submission, the rest follows. I was mentored by another submissive woman. She taught me to think for myself, that I had the right to tell someone they were not the dominant for me. She told me what submission meant to her, and encouraged me to find what worked for me.
When I was new, I did need to explore things that I had fantasized about but needed to find out if the fantasy carried over into reality.

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/6/2011 3:30:52 AM   
Sunny27


Posts: 140
Joined: 10/9/2010
Status: offline 		Well I think that subs think it shows an interest of wanting to learn about Bdsm,
if they have a master but want to meet a Master that wants only them.
Some people like to have a bit of fun with different people before they become secure in a relationship though!

(in reply to Wolf2Bear)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/6/2011 5:53:34 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i think there are times when people abuse the "in training" thing, but i also do think it can serve a purpose. i once started a thread about people who get into arrangements with each other just to see "how it might go," and got a lot of the same "training by someone else is useless!" or "he's just trying to get free sex!" replies, but i don't think that's the only way to look at this.
some people put value on experiential learning, or maybe, as someone previously said, they do just want to be treated in a particular way. if both parties are on board and know what they're getting into, and have good communication (like if one of them starts falling harder for the other one, that needs to be discussed), i don't really see it as a problem at all.


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Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


(in reply to Sunny27)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/6/2011 6:09:00 AM   
Buzzzz


Posts: 839
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		It sounds as crap as the "under protection of" title .. But that is just me .

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(in reply to Wolf2Bear)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/6/2011 4:13:31 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Using an impersonal "trainer" to discover your kinks is sort of like using a vibrator to discover your orgasms.


To me training implies an unequal power dynamic but what you're describing sounds like play partners.

(in reply to imperatrixx)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/6/2011 11:51:46 PM   
MsKittyValentine


Posts: 36
Joined: 6/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

  "In training" is a bill of goods sold to impressionable subs by would-be Doms who know they're not good enough to fuck them.

Why the fuck would I want a sub who's been inculcated with what is no doubt a bunch of absolute horseshit.   I have no patience to try and undo the damage done by some assclown who thinks subs require "training".

A sub requires an understanding of her desires and a Dom who understands her.  "Training" is fucking nonsense.



Although I am going to say that I am aware of YKIOK, I do agree with the above.

Training as a concept to me seems redundant as we all only work in terms of having relationships to others. If we are in a relationship, then that is it. The training comes naturally within that bdsm relationship or it should do if the people involved have any self awareness and idea about what they are trying to achieve.

No one need get in over their heads and get 'enslaved' before they know if they are compatible as they just stick to their own rules about taking it slow, having personal responsibility and not being coerced into anything they have not consented to.

The training anyone else gave to a sub I then had a relationship with would be useless. My rules are my rules and are unique as a set. Nothing anyone else trains that sub to do will be of the slightest use to me. I can either do it myself or would have to untrain them and start again and goodness knows what rubbish they might have been told or 'trained' in.

Training seems something I remember reading about in erotic fiction and encountered a lot on the internet when I started on the scene circa 1998. It has never been even remotely relevant to any of the relationships I have had with subs, lifestyle or professional in all the years since then.






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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/7/2011 1:19:13 AM   
imperatrixx


Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Using an impersonal "trainer" to discover your kinks is sort of like using a vibrator to discover your orgasms.


To me training implies an unequal power dynamic but what you're describing sounds like play partners.


Well in a way "training" is the D/s version of the S/m "play partners."

Just like having a play partner is a good way to see if you're into spanking, having a trainer can be a good way to see if you're into something like TPE.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/7/2011 3:19:07 AM   
Amygdalin


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKittyValentine

Training as a concept to me seems redundant as we all only work in terms of having relationships to others.

No one need get in over their heads and get 'enslaved' before they know if they are compatible as they just stick to their own rules about taking it slow, having personal responsibility and not being coerced into anything they have not consented to.

The training anyone else gave to a sub I then had a relationship with would be useless. My rules are my rules and are unique as a set. Nothing anyone else trains that sub to do will be of the slightest use to me.





Again, this is my opinion. When I originally started this thread, this is what I was talking about. The sub who is seeking a long term relationship and advertises her training as if that makes her more valuable or "marketable."

But, as others have pointed out, not everyone wants the same things, and some are only looking for play, nothing long term. My main point was I think former training would serve as nothing more than a hindrance for those seeking a long term thing. Every Dom and sub are different and things should be played out according to their unique relationship and circumstances.

(in reply to MsKittyValentine)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/7/2011 3:36:07 AM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Amygdalin


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKittyValentine

Training as a concept to me seems redundant as we all only work in terms of having relationships to others.

No one need get in over their heads and get 'enslaved' before they know if they are compatible as they just stick to their own rules about taking it slow, having personal responsibility and not being coerced into anything they have not consented to.

The training anyone else gave to a sub I then had a relationship with would be useless. My rules are my rules and are unique as a set. Nothing anyone else trains that sub to do will be of the slightest use to me.





Again, this is my opinion. When I originally started this thread, this is what I was talking about. The sub who is seeking a long term relationship and advertises her training as if that makes her more valuable or "marketable."

But, as others have pointed out, not everyone wants the same things, and some are only looking for play, nothing long term. My main point was I think former training would serve as nothing more than a hindrance for those seeking a long term thing. Every Dom and sub are different and things should be played out according to their unique relationship and circumstances.


Sorry for just jumping into the middle of this thread, but the posts above caught my eye and reminded me of a thread from a couple of years ago.

Resume of Service

While I agree that each situation is different and will require skills/protocols/rules relative to the unique dynamic, I do believe it could be helpful for a submissive/slave who seeks to enter into such a dynamic to have "training" in various general skills that would benefit dominants/masters/mistresses in general. If the s-type advertises him/herself as a "service" sub...I would expect them to have the skills to provide service. Of course...service is a relative term.

Just my $0.02

(in reply to Amygdalin)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/7/2011 3:59:39 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I have serious issues with the concept that once a sub has been trained by another, she is then rendered useless to a dom in future. This is bullcrap. Subs aim to please and are quite easily retrained over time. I know, I've done it.

I think the term "in training" is about as useless as the "under consideration" term in many instances. Just depends on who's tossing the term around. Mostly, it's about the online "dom" who pulls a sub "off the market" so to speak while he/she is new and impressionable and (hopefully) doesn't know he's full of crap.

I personally have a variety of meanings for when I use the word "training." It can mean anything from training someone in the specifics of how I like things to be done, such as making my tea, to training them to behave properly in a high protocol situation, to training them to accept obedience, (for the most part) no questions asked. It can be training them to know if they do have an issue, how to approach the dominant in a respectful way and voice their concerns.

I do think much of the above can be learned over time and does translate quite well from one relationship to the next.

I'm going to site a recent example from my own life that shows how I handled a situation that was quite frustrating to me. The other night, the man broke the frames of his glasses. He has very bad eyesight and needs them to see. He insisted on trying to fix the frames. First he tried gluing, then he tried switching out frames with his computer glasses, finally he admitted defeat and handed the problem over to me. In less than two hours, I had taken them in, learned they were irrepairable (which I already knew) had his lens transferred to a new pair of frames, and problem solved.

In the distant past I would have insisted on taking his glasses in right off, b/c I would have the attitude that *I* know best, and what I know best should always be acted upon (so not subbie behavior). Instead, I supported his efforts to attempt to glue and repair (which included picking him up from work, driving for a repair kit, etc). which involved me changing my day drastically to accommodate him, even though I was sure it was not going to work. I was not mean, spiteful of condescending. I was supportive and obedient.

Once he gave up, I solved the problem with my usual aplomb.

My point being that if I am someone's submissive, I don't get to be right, even when I am right, until he decides I might be right. And that is an issue of training, not obedience.

Please note my example was NOT an emotional or relationship issue. B/c I personally do not think you can handle those things in the same way.

In any case, I think as with all things, obedience with good grace is easier over time, as your mind becomes trained to this is how things are. And used in that sense, training is very valuable.


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(in reply to Amygdalin)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/7/2011 9:18:06 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

Once one understands submission, the rest follows.


Quoted for Truth.

Dogs are trained to sit, stay, fetch... when they understand they get praise or a treat when they do what you want, they are trained.

Most people have a higher self-awareness than that and can be TOLD what to do.

Training implies that mindless repetition is necessary in order for the sub to be able to do what is wanted.

If they would like to learn how to serve high tea, they go to someone who knows how to do it who TEACHES them to do it.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/7/2011 9:23:24 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Perhaps they are seeking experience in being unequal and not looking to just play.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Using an impersonal "trainer" to discover your kinks is sort of like using a vibrator to discover your orgasms.


To me training implies an unequal power dynamic but what you're describing sounds like play partners.



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/7/2011 9:35:20 AM   
experiment2


Posts: 208
Joined: 11/7/2007
Status: offline 		perhaps everyone has a different concept of what it means to be a submissive, so their is no one anwser to the question. from my limited point of view having been an online submissive for several Dommes, it is an ongoing and continuous learning experience.

for some it might lead to becoming a slave to a Dom/Domme while others want it to remain as a submissive only, not ready to surrendering full time control. i still don't consider myself a "trained" submissive. to me each Domme has a differnt opinion as to how and what to train a submissive to be. i don't think the journey is ever complete since there is not a definition of the final goal.

my Dommes kept introducing more challenging activities, constantly testing me for obedience and prompt completion. it might start simple such as with chastity control. no ejaculations for the week. at the end of the week, just add on another week. go out wiht out underwear for the day, now do it for two days. hit your self with a wooden spoon ten times, next time it is 20 and show Her the proof. always pushing the envelope. to me this is waht training is about. others might see it differently.

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/8/2011 5:15:57 AM   
MsKittyValentine


Posts: 36
Joined: 6/22/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh


quote:

ORIGINAL: Amygdalin


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKittyValentine

Training as a concept to me seems redundant as we all only work in terms of having relationships to others.

No one need get in over their heads and get 'enslaved' before they know if they are compatible as they just stick to their own rules about taking it slow, having personal responsibility and not being coerced into anything they have not consented to.

The training anyone else gave to a sub I then had a relationship with would be useless. My rules are my rules and are unique as a set. Nothing anyone else trains that sub to do will be of the slightest use to me.





Again, this is my opinion. When I originally started this thread, this is what I was talking about. The sub who is seeking a long term relationship and advertises her training as if that makes her more valuable or "marketable."

But, as others have pointed out, not everyone wants the same things, and some are only looking for play, nothing long term. My main point was I think former training would serve as nothing more than a hindrance for those seeking a long term thing. Every Dom and sub are different and things should be played out according to their unique relationship and circumstances.


Sorry for just jumping into the middle of this thread, but the posts above caught my eye and reminded me of a thread from a couple of years ago.

Resume of Service

While I agree that each situation is different and will require skills/protocols/rules relative to the unique dynamic, I do believe it could be helpful for a submissive/slave who seeks to enter into such a dynamic to have "training" in various general skills that would benefit dominants/masters/mistresses in general. If the s-type advertises him/herself as a "service" sub...I would expect them to have the skills to provide service. Of course...service is a relative term.

Just my $0.02


That is interesting because as soon as I saw the term 'service submissive', I thought, well of course, but that is not what I want. Actually in some respects it is, but not just as the classical idea of a service sub.

It is definitely true that we all seem to have as unique a set of ideas about what we mean and want as subs as we do about training. My kind of sub is one with whom I will be having a perfectly ordinary relationship in all ways except it is 24/7 D/s and I am in control. So it is sex, companionship, friendship, love, service, D/s, S/M and more besides.

It is also true that in the UK we tend not to use the term service sub quite so much and maybe that is what would put me off.

Nonetheless, the kinds of things I want my sub to be able to do for me are fairly simple and not the sort of 'old guard' style leather service things. I need a sub to be a driver, a good DIYer, Gardener, cook and general domestic. However, I tend to share those tasks and chores with my sub so I am not looking to be pampered and treated like an incapable baby. I just want a capable and intelligent sub as my life companion. I need a man who looks out for me first and puts me first. I have no need for professional boot blacking, silver service waiting or correct tea ceremony etiquette. They are just not things which appear on my radar. High protocol stuff is alien to me but loving, enthusiastic helpfulness and happiness to serve me, an iconaclastic and nonconformist Mistress without reserve or fear that I am not a genuine Domme because I tend not to fit in with scene norms.

Given, my needs, I really do believe that no training by another Dom/me will be of any use to me. That does not mean that any pre-trained sub is ruined in my eyes or useless from there on in. Not at all. I think it is just a little harder to counteract training which might be the opposite to what I like and need.

_____________________________

Dominant in FLR with Paul

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/8/2011 6:00:27 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
Training implies that mindless repetition is necessary in order for the sub to be able to do what is wanted.

WFT? Only in BDSM-land.
(and I left the WTF misspelling because I thought it was funny that I could misspell a 3 letter abbreviation and to provide some sport to crazy & ddesire who seem to have recently developed a fetish around such things).

It is, in my considered opinion, one of the fascinating things about BDSM is that nobody needs to be trained or learn anything or improve in any way whatsoever. The doms were all born that way... you either got the magic gene or you don't. The subs ... ditto... even those that loudly proclaim that they don't possess that magical submissive gene. Everyone wants something for nothing and their chicks for free (sorry, I couldn't resist). It is "you should love me for who I am" run amok.

Out in the real world "training" means "The action of teaching a person or animal a particular skill or type of behavior." and it does not carry with it all of this ridiculous burden. I have chatted with, mentored, and trained new submissives. To my knowledge, none of them thought I was using them as anything other than "a student". I didn't spend much time with them on what I personally want out of a sub/slave. We talked about the BDSM landscape as a whole and how that individual might fit into it. When we got some niche narrowed down a bit then we talked about the various mind sets and viewpoints I've heard around that particular niche. If possible, I put them in touch with other people who saw things that way. There was a lot of discussion about authority & obedience (predictable given my interests) and why that can work out well and not so well. In other words, it was normal, healthy, and useful to the people I spoke to.

Out of curiosity, you don't think that me, a guy who had a happy vanilla marriage and then turned it into a happy, high-functioning BDSM authority based relationship might not have something really fascinating to say to another vanilla couple considering the same thing?

sheez.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 7/8/2011 6:12:52 AM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/8/2011 9:23:37 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Out of curiosity, you don't think that me, a guy who had a happy vanilla marriage and then turned it into a happy, high-functioning BDSM authority based relationship might not have something really fascinating to say to another vanilla couple considering the same thing?

sheez.


Not really sure where you got that from.

"Training" means something different to me in the real world than it does to you in the real world, as it also apparently does in the BDSM world. I find the word offensive, when used to describe one person leading another into learning new things, because to ME, training is mindless repetition. I don't consider a teacher/student relationship to be a training relationship.

For example, training to me is something like training for a marathon. You don't tell your body, okay go faster now, you have to do mindless repetition for your body to be ABLE TO go faster. Or learning how to play tennis... you cannot tell your body to hit a wicked backhand every time, you must repeat the muscle movements over and over in order to be able to reliably hit that wicked backhand.

Or learning how to wield a whip, you TRAIN for that, practicing over and over.

But talking about relationships, getting tied up, poking or being poked with needles, getting spanked, none of that shit involves training, in my world.

SemanticalCali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/8/2011 11:31:37 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
But talking about relationships, getting tied up, poking or being poked with needles, getting spanked, none of that shit involves training, in my world.

Fair enough. ALL of that could involve training in my world. The relationship one absolutely SHOULD involve training since self-evidently an awful lot of people aren't very good at it.

Also, I don't really get how "training" means "mindless repetition". Perhaps it's just my corporate background where the word "training" pretty much means "you go take some class somewhere". You know, sensitivity training, management training, etc. etc. I've also gone to a TON of technical training programs. This is not me using the word "training". It's the common usage. Heck, I'm pretty sure the official name of the group responsible for this stuff at the last place I worked was "Training and employee development".

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/8/2011 12:05:59 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick
But talking about relationships, getting tied up, poking or being poked with needles, getting spanked, none of that shit involves training, in my world.

Fair enough. ALL of that could involve training in my world. The relationship one absolutely SHOULD involve training since self-evidently an awful lot of people aren't very good at it.

......Also, I don't really get how "training" means "mindless repetition". Perhaps it's just my corporate background where the word "training" pretty much means "you go take some class somewhere". You know, sensitivity training, management training, etc. etc. I've also gone to a TON of technical training programs. This is not me using the word "training". It's the common usage. Heck, I'm pretty sure the official name of the group responsible for this stuff at the last place I worked was "Training and employee development".


My relationship required no training. It required to me to accept and stick to the agreed *terms*. There wasn't a thing about being submissive in those terms, either.

When it comes to being poked with needles, whips etc........ yeah........ I'm fairly content knowing that M knows what he's doing.  I don't think either comes down to *mindless repetition* anymore than being on the receiving end does.

Nothing could have prepared or *trained* me for my relationship with M, or what's taken place in it. And if *we* ended.........I won't consider myself trained just because I've experienced a lot of things. Maybe that's the differerence......some people consider experiences as training.........I don't.

agirl


_____________________________

See how easy it can be?

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/8/2011 7:28:27 PM   
Amygdalin


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/28/2011
Status: offline 		Very well said Agirl. I like that.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Submissive "In Training" - 7/8/2011 7:38:16 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		There is more to being a submissive than lying there and taking it.

Graceful and respectful obedience is to me an art form, and one most people, unless they are quite submissive in personality, are not especially good at.

I look at training in the BDSM context as similar to being taught how to drive a car. Each vehicle may have its idiosycracies, but the basics of driving a car are universal from one car to the next. Having good driving training always comes in handy, and especially when things go wrong. Instead of panicking, you have some good training to fall back on.

Just my three cents tonight.


_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 40
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