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RE: Turkey and Libya - 7/6/2011 10:45:05 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

All those Arab`y folks over 'thar'.

And then in the trees I heard a twig snap
Warning lights flashed on my map
I opened my eyes and to my surprise...

There were Arabs with Knives
At the foot of the bed!
Right at the foot of the bed!
Oh my God how did they get in here?
I thought we were safe home in England.

~~Roger Waters

"She said "Come on now kid, it was wrong what you did
You've got to admit it was wrong"
Oh god....Jesus
Sleep Sleep
I know that I'm only dreaming
Leave her alone..get out..out..get out of my house
Through closed eyes
I see West German skies on the ceiling
And I want to get back
To the girl with the rucksack
To feel her flaxen hair
I want to be there
See the sun going down
Behind Krupps steelworks
On the outskirts of some German town"

Quote of the Month Heather!

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RE: Turkey and Libya - 7/6/2011 11:41:13 AM

SternSkipper

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quote:

It would seem to me that at some point somebody amongst these chaps would wise up, but they dont.

Instead of each of em thinking they're some kind of Jr
delivering the civilization to the rest of the world
where anybody who disagrees with their 'policies'
(if that's what you want to call 'nation building' after the WMD lie peters out....
Growing the fuck up might help em

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 7/6/2011 11:50:38 AM >

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RE: Turkey and Libya - 7/6/2011 11:48:41 AM

SternSkipper

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Joined: 3/7/2004
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woops wrong button ... made a minor gramatical error above

< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 7/6/2011 11:50:10 AM >

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RE: Turkey and Libya - 7/6/2011 8:52:20 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It was reported today that Turkey is now funding the rebels in Libya and is funding them 300 million.

http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-recognizes-libya-rebels-gives-300-million-174140388.html

quote:

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu visited the rebel stronghold of Benghazi in eastern Libya on Sunday. He says his country has given the rebels' Transitional National Council $300 million, two-thirds as a loan and one-third as a grant.

Im not strong on alot of international issues.

Thoughts?

Tazzy, don't you hate it when this happens?

It's been a bit of a weird bit here, and I haven't been paying much attention to larger events. Given where we are in Libya, my opinion is this would be a good thing. We obviously aren't going to stop until Kuhdaffy is gone, so bring on the international pressure for him to step away. That's the easist out. Maybe Turkish intelligence can help decipher how the rest of the revolution will flow.

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RE: Turkey and Libya - 7/6/2011 9:10:08 PM

tazzygirl

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Thank you for a direct answer, Rich. I was thinking that might be the case. I would wonder though, and maybe its my lack of understanding on such things, is it a good thing if Turkey takes control? I dont mean of the efforts to oust, but of the region afterwards. Or is this a concern at all?

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RE: Turkey and Libya - 7/6/2011 9:54:55 PM

TheHeretic

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Take control? That sounds like the last thing Turkey (or any other) sane power would want to do. Be able to pull a few strings, know who can make a deal, and who can get the job done without robbing you blind? I'm sure they want that.

Assuming Kuhdaffy comes to the responsible and rational decision a foreign leader would theoretically come to, something new still has to be gotten working in a tribal society. I'd swear UN peacekeepers have come up along the way. (Let's just not introduce cholera this time

).

Turkey was once the seat of a great empire, and I'm sure some there would like another go at it, but I don't think they can deliver a "government in a box" mission.

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RE: Turkey and Libya - 7/7/2011 12:44:17 AM

tweakabelle

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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

Is Turkey doing it because its right, doing it because of fear, or doing it because they are simply mad at Gadaffi?
Because it's in their own self-interest to do so. they are betting on the rebels winning. They hope, that because they were generous backers they will gain various benefits, such as:

1. Access to Libyan oil.
2. An ally in the Mediterranean
3. Another democratic Muslim state in the area
4. Goodwill from other NATO & EU members
5. Greater acceptance as a responsible member of the international community
6. A bunch of other things I haven't thought of

For someone who said, few posts earlier, they weren't up on the nuances of the situation, this looks like a pretty sharp analysis to me.

Turkey is enjoying a period a relative stability, democracy and growth. It's been a long time member of NATO and for the past few decades, its gaze has been directed towards the West. Its attempt to join the European Union seems to have floundered and this combined with a few other events (eg the Israeli attack on the Turkish vessel in the Gaza freedom flotilla) has caused Turkey to re-think its role in the region. It's worth remembering that Turkey is located at the meeting point of Asia and Europe.

Turkey is forging closer relations with the Muslim world (including Syria and Iran) and taking a regional leadership role, a role that Turks see as reflecting their size and importance in the region. Egypt's stagnation under Mubarak, subservience to US/Israeli interests and internal turmoil as it transits to democracy, have created a kind of regional leadership vacuum. Relations with Libya, both a Mediterranean and Muslim State, may be seen in this light.

So Turkish aid is good for the Libyans (anything that helps get rid of Ghaddafi is good for Libya) and Turkey has a lot to gain from another democratic Mediterranean Muslim State, economically and diplomatically. It's also worth remembering that Turkey's increasing prosperity is a good example of how democracy can and does work in the Muslim world.

Personally I feel the emergence of strong independent democratic regional powers such as Turkey (or Brazil in South America) is good for the world generally. Those who prefer Western hegemony might have a few more concerns and fears from such developments.

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