RE: Slap my submissive? (Full Version)

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Sunny27 -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 5:09:38 AM)

"We've talked about slapping and how she like's to be slapped if she gets out of line. I like to slap my submissive/slave and I've done so but only in the bedroom.

...So now I just want to make sure if I do something that's hurtful like a slap, its not received in the same way."


Ok I have this from your thread, this kinda freaked me out and I'm feeling ever so lucky that I started BDSM with my now b.f. as for us when he slaps me on my bum between light and medium its grand!

I think that your sub is a little silly to have said "I like to be slapped if I get out of line".
Thats like saying slap me, if I critique you in anyway!
Right Myself and My Master have a rule with he tells me what he wants to do if its anything new and if I don't like it I just change it slightly so that we both have fun!
I know I'm not the Dom yet I'm suggesting we do other things!!! Madness you must think!
I rarely do this and we both want to have fun like it shouldn't only be my Dom having fun! Most people don't like that idea!
Hope that helps!



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 5:16:27 AM)

This:


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Fuck me,

I don't know where to start with this one, it has great big flashing red lights all over it.

So.... she has very very controlling parents, and was freaked out when you pressed the issue. You apologise at the time, and now you're wondering whether slapping her "once or twice" will be helpful to the relationship?

Only a total cunt would do that.

Then you tell us about when she got "somewhat distant" and it made you "a little angry" so you "texted her some harsh messages"... you need to get some self control dude.




The OP also needs to understand that if he likes young females they could possibly still be living at home a/o finishing their education. It goes with. Why do I have this sneaky suspicion that the OP is also living at home, with different parents and therefore different rules?

It is amazing how not domly it is to have mommy and daddy holding the purse strings.









kalikshama -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 7:13:11 AM)

quote:

Why do I have this sneaky suspicion that the OP is also living at home, with different parents and therefore different rules?


This reminds me of when I went to prep school and a mouse would have had a hard time sneaking out of the girls' dorm yet the boys' dorm was wide open.

Fortunately for me, I'm smarter than the average mouse :)



crazyml -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 9:00:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I googled violence, and it seems that you've used the wikipedia definition. If you take the trouble to look further down the list you'll see that violence also includes "an unjust, unwarranted, or unlawful display of force,".



Oh, I didn't miss that. Do you have an argument to go with this statement that demonstrates how this has any relevance to what I am talking about?


Yes, indeed I do.

quote:


I hope it's a good one,


Oh, you won't be disappointed

quote:


because if your going to take the stance that unlawfulness defines violence, then your throwing S/M under that umbrella as well with the legal controversy that surrounds it. And if that's the case, then based on reading your profile, your one of those "fucking losers" who needs to use acts of violence in the bedroom to get his rocks off.


Goodness me, it's a good thing that I'm not going to argue that. Phew!

quote:


As far as unjust and unwarranted, completely subjective to the situation. The one time I slapped a submissive, we were both in agreement in the end that it was just and warranted. I am in agreement with my father that being disciplined with a belt as a child was warranted and just and I am grateful for the experience.


The use of physical force in the situation described by the op, and in the nice little story about how you assaulted your young relative are both unequivocally unwarranted uses of violence.

To help you understand the distinction - slapping a child (no matter how many times you were the victim of abuse as a child, or how you choose to rationalise the abuse) is unwarranted. On the other hand, if on discovering that someone had slapped a child of mine, I then tore the perpetrator's head off and shat down his or her neck, that would be perfectly warranted.

Do you understand the distinction now?

Of course this is subjective, I'm not laying down the law here - I'm voicing my personal opinion that the kind of person who uses unwarranted force in order to discipline someone is a fucking loser. You're very free to differ.

In the context of the OP, and kink in general, this distinction is really, really important.

If you settle an issue and even apologise for your part in causing it, then there is no way on earth that any subsequent punishment is warranted.

In the example you use, you slapped a child (no matter how lightly) and in doing so you created a context within which it's "ok" to use physical force to settle an issue. To me in my own, and very subjective, opinion this demonstrates a huge failure in leadership.

If however you're in a relationship where some degree of physical force is expected (and consented to) then it certainly may be "warranted". As you point out, I have a mildly sadistic streak which I'm delighted to satisfy with a suitably consenting playmate. And that is perfectly fine and dandy too. But if I were unable to control a submissive partner, beyond agreed play, without having to resort to physical force, then I would regard it as a failing on my part, not hers.

quote:


In short, your stretching. Your stance doesn't really have much merit and to compensate for that, your now pushing buttons like a petty sadist or small child.


So now you seek to win your argument by likening my response to that of a petty sadist or a small child. For a self-professed "leader type" I would have expected that that kind of whining would be beneath you.

But hey... go ahead, I've got broad shoulders, and I'm very happy to behave like a jackass too.

So in return can I give you some feed back on your profile? There's one bit that is absolutely fucking hilarious...

"If you can't put more effort into communication then a single sentence with more spelling errors and grammar problems then words, I am not interested."

I'm assuming, given how literate you appear to be, that your misspelling of "than" on each occasion you use it is intended to be ironic? If so, then "bravo" it gave me a good old chortle.

Oh and it's "you're" not "your". I'm sure these are typos, and that you'll be glad to fix them, I'd hate a prospective playmate to form the, doubtless wrong, impression that you're an illiterate asshat.




LadyPact -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 9:24:56 AM)

I wasn't going to answer this one because it would seem that it was basically resolved.  However, I'll leave it up here in case the OP comes back with an update after dinner with the parents Wed night.

I'm not seeing a lot of control over the situation, which is something you might want to consider heavily.  I mean that in more ways than one. There was obviously a communication disconnect before the gal even got there for the summer.  The expectation of the OP sounds like he was going to be the focus and that's not especially realistic considering the circumstances.  The rules of the parent's home didn't just suddenly materialize, so either the details of the situation wasn't discussed thoroughly or somebody didn't listen in depth. 

As to the face slapping for an infraction in this manner, I do happen to think it's a bad idea.  It's not a good corrective action for several reasons.  It's already been discussed that it wasn't immediate.  There's no experience between the parties for that type of corrective action.  The gal's living with her parents and if her face does mark, there's going to be hell to pay.

If you want to introduce face slapping, I'd actually recommend that you do so when it is *not* involved as a punishment first.  Do it in a fun context to gauge the reaction to the act itself.  Also, I'd suggest that you do it lightly.  More of an "attention getter" than anything to do with actual force.  Once you know how she really reacts, then discuss that you may also choose to use it as a punishment method if it is needed in the future.  It may sound like it would be confusing, but you are actually telling the submissive that the action is a potential consequence.

One last thing.  I highly doubt I would have punished for what was described in this thread.  The incident had never happened before, plus you were dealing with someone who was experiencing grief due to the death of a family member.  I'm leaning on the side that such things haven't been discussed prior, so you need to establish the structure before attempting enforcement.



DecadentDesire -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 9:51:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

The use of physical force in the situation described by the op, and in the nice little story about how you assaulted your young relative are both unequivocally unwarranted uses of violence.

To help you understand the distinction - slapping a child (no matter how many times you were the victim of abuse as a child, or how you choose to rationalise the abuse) is unwarranted. On the other hand, if on discovering that someone had slapped a child of mine, I then tore the perpetrator's head off and shat down his or her neck, that would be perfectly warranted.

Do you understand the distinction now?

Of course this is subjective, I'm not laying down the law here - I'm voicing my personal opinion that the kind of person who uses unwarranted force in order to discipline someone is a fucking loser. You're very free to differ.

In the context of the OP, and kink in general, this distinction is really, really important.

If you settle an issue and even apologise for your part in causing it, then there is no way on earth that any subsequent punishment is warranted.

In the example you use, you slapped a child (no matter how lightly) and in doing so you created a context within which it's "ok" to use physical force to settle an issue. To me in my own, and very subjective, opinion this demonstrates a huge failure in leadership.

If however you're in a relationship where some degree of physical force is expected (and consented to) then it certainly may be "warranted". As you point out, I have a mildly sadistic streak which I'm delighted to satisfy with a suitably consenting playmate. And that is perfectly fine and dandy too. But if I were unable to control a submissive partner, beyond agreed play, without having to resort to physical force, then I would regard it as a failing on my part, not hers.


I'm not disappointed at all. I'm actually rather happy that you were able to bring something more to this discussion then jabs at my spelling. It's a very well thought out argument and I can understand your stance better.

I would agree that a situation where someone had settled an issue and then responded in kind with physical force would be unwarranted. From that perspective, I can understand your negative response to the OP.

However, on your opinion that all physical force is unwarranted or that physical discipline translates into abuse, we'll just have to agree to disagree with that. I see it as a difference in upbringing and values and we can go round and round on the subject for pages without getting anywhere.

quote:


"If you can't put more effort into communication then a single sentence with more spelling errors and grammar problems then words, I am not interested."

I'm assuming, given how literate you appear to be, that your misspelling of "than" on each occasion you use it is intended to be ironic? If so, then "bravo" it gave me a good old chortle.

Oh and it's "you're" not "your". I'm sure these are typos, and that you'll be glad to fix them, I'd hate a prospective playmate to form the, doubtless wrong, impression that you're an illiterate asshat.


Actually, I am probably more likely to change the line at the bottom of my profile than the typos themselves. From your perspective, it is communicating that I am some kind of spelling or grammar perfectionist which isn't what I am trying to say.

I don't mind the typos. They just quirks and flaws in how I write and communicate and done out of habit. It's kind of a testament that I am not perfect.

I don't expect perfection in anyone else. The point of the line at the bottom is more to say "I put a lot of effort into my communication with people and I want the same in return".

Thanks for taking the time to write our your complete opinion. I enjoyed it and I enjoyed this attempt to get a rise out of me. However, in the future, you might want to try going after my masculinity or heterosexuality. I hear that is a pretty popular button-pushing tactic against dominants. It might work out better for you than targeting my spelling.



crazyml -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 9:56:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
Thanks for taking the time to write our your complete opinion. I enjoyed it and I enjoyed this attempt to get a rise out of me. However, in the future, you might want to try going after my masculinity or heterosexuality. I hear that is a pretty popular button-pushing tactic against dominants. It might work out better for you than targeting my spelling.


Why would I do that? I don't know anything about your "masculinity" and your sexual preferences are entirely down to you. I do however think that misspelling "than" in a sentence in which you demand proper spelling and grammar makes you look stupid.



DecadentDesire -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 10:03:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
Thanks for taking the time to write our your complete opinion. I enjoyed it and I enjoyed this attempt to get a rise out of me. However, in the future, you might want to try going after my masculinity or heterosexuality. I hear that is a pretty popular button-pushing tactic against dominants. It might work out better for you than targeting my spelling.


Why would I do that? I don't know anything about your "masculinity" and your sexual preferences are entirely down to you. I do however think that misspelling "than" in a sentence in which you demand proper spelling and grammar makes you look stupid.


Actually, I demanded more proper spelling and grammar then incorrect proper spelling and grammar, so by that statement, I am still meeting my own standards. [;)]

But...hey...your entitled to your opinion. Much like I am entitled to my opinion that someone who can't debate without making petty jabs every other line is a child.




leadership527 -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 10:16:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire
I would agree that a situation where someone had settled an issue and then responded in kind with physical force would be unwarranted. From that perspective, I can understand your negative response to the OP.

Good, because honestly anything else is just plain weak-assed in every sense. It's eve worse than "being settled then re-opened". It's "As the leader (and the guy ultimately responsible) I have already admitted culpability in this situation yet now I want to punish her?" Oh pulease.

However, on your opinion that all physical force is unwarranted or that physical discipline translates into abuse, we'll just have to agree to disagree with that. I see it as a difference in upbringing and values and we can go round and round on the subject for pages without getting anywhere.
Wait, I didn't see crazy say that and I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe it. What I specifically saw him say is that depending on the relationship it may be warranted. BUT, if that was the ultimate tool of control then he'd consider himself a failure. So would I. So would any leader I know of.

I think I'll just pass on the grammer snippiness (and yes, I know that I misspelled "grammar" and "snippiness" isn't a word). I'm just feeling like a grammer edge player today.



crazyml -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 10:16:22 AM)

Oh alright, I'm being snarky, for which I do apologise.

For what it's worth... your initial posts really did leave me with the impression that you're a stupid asshat. Your "Both of you should learn to read" and your "I'm sickened by some of the responses here.." struck me as unbelievably pompous and arrogant.

Then you tip it the "academic" by debating the definitions of words, which made me think that you fancied yourself as some kind of intellectual, and yes it was childish of me to point out your misuse of the word "corporal" but sheesh... it was almost as if you were begging to have your bubble burst.

Then you respond to my post by misrepresenting the meaning of violence (and on correction you imply that you understood that violence had a broader meaning than you'd previously implied).

Then you rocked up with the "petty sadist or small child" nonsense, so I thought I'd give you a dig in return.

So if you really are here to engage in healthy debate, then man-up, pull on the daddy pants and expect to get some stick from time to time!



LafayetteLady -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 11:30:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DecadentDesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I googled violence, and it seems that you've used the wikipedia definition. If you take the trouble to look further down the list you'll see that violence also includes "an unjust, unwarranted, or unlawful display of force,".



Oh, I didn't miss that. Do you have an argument to go with this statement that demonstrates how this has any relevance to what I am talking about?

I hope it's a good one, because if your going to take the stance that unlawfulness defines violence, then your throwing S/M under that umbrella as well with the legal controversy that surrounds it. And if that's the case, then based on reading your profile, your one of those "fucking losers" who needs to use acts of violence in the bedroom to get his rocks off.

As far as unjust and unwarranted, completely subjective to the situation. The one time I slapped a submissive, we were both in agreement in the end that it was just and warranted. I am in agreement with my father that being disciplined with a belt as a child was warranted and just and I am grateful for the experience.

In short, your stretching. Your stance doesn't really have much merit and to compensate for that, your now pushing buttons like a petty sadist or small child.



Talk about someone whose reading comprehension is off the mark....

I made the important part of that comment as obvious as possible. You do understand what "or" means, right?

This guy says himself that "if I call her out on it, I'm most likely going to slap her once or twice."

Does that really sound like someone under control to you? You want to hold yourself out as the authority on this matter, go for it. But stop acting like an ass because other experienced and intelligent people disagree with what you said.

And by the way, people disagreed with what you said because it was only relevant to the idea of how to go about slapping someone.

Oh yea, and "corporeal" refers to ": having, consisting of, or relating to a physical material body: as a: not spiritual b: not immaterial or intangible : substantial"

If you want to portry yourself as someone who is so well versed, at least attempt to get the terms right.



kalikshama -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 2:36:44 PM)

crazyml for the slap smackdown!



Tristan -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 6:25:29 PM)

OK, I just re-read IntimateDarkness's posts, and I am at a lost as to the criticism he's received.  I read his posts as a young inexperienced dominant looking for advice.  He is not saying he has done everything correctly.  On the contrary, he is stating openly what he believes are his mistakes.  This is a trait that I definitely respect, and the only means, I believe, one can learn from his or her mistakes.  Is there no way to frame comments and advice in a respectful manner? 

quote:

We've talked about slapping and how she like's to be slapped if she gets out of line. I like to slap my submissive/slave and I've done so but only in the bedroom.


My advice would be to take this relationship very very slowly.  Try slapping in play first.  Make sure you both know what to expect, and then, when and only when you both feel comfortable, you can start experimenting.  You really need a lot of trust and communication to make something like this work.  Trust is only developed with lots of time and experience with each other.  Do not rush this.

quote:

So here's the thing, I've gone ahead and talked to her about it. I've been proactive and invited them to go eat out this Wednesday. I don't know if they'll loosen up they are really decent people so its worth a shot.


I don't know the dynamics of the relationship of all involved.  My advice is your g/f is your primary partner, and to make sure you talk to her before doing anything with her parents of other family members.  If you made arrangements behind her back, I can understand her feeling pressured because you created a situation where she may feel pressured to balance her relationship with you and her relationship with her parents.  Always avoid such situations.  Make sure your g/f knows you are there to look out for her, and make sure you listen to her so you know how to look out for her.  If you get anything out of my post, get this!

All relationships are dynamic and changing.  I see your willingness to talk to her parents directly as admirable, but possibly misguided especially if you made arrangements without talking to her first.  She will know best how to approach her parents.  There might be a good way to change the situation (or maybe not).  You need to let her guide you on this.

quote:

I told her "I freaked out, said some stupid things" and I've never freaked out in a relationship ever that was the first time. She admitted she had been a little distant because of some trivial things and she had a little resentment.


I can understand how it feels to feel the distance that may not be related to anything you did or said.  I have absolutely no advice on how to deal with this.  In my experience, I have both pushed the issue and found out things that were unpleasant but I needed to know, and at other times, possibly caused more harm than good.  I don't think there is a good way to know what to do especially at the beginning stages of a new relationship.  Just make sure you talk often, and are as honest and open as you can be.  If your partner is not being equally as open and honest, maybe wait a few days before acting. 

Good luck in your relationship, and let us know how your dinner with her parents went.



LadyPact -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 6:44:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristan

OK, I just re-read IntimateDarkness's posts, and I am at a lost as to the criticism he's received.  I read his posts as a young inexperienced dominant looking for advice.  He is not saying he has done everything correctly.  On the contrary, he is stating openly what he believes are his mistakes.  This is a trait that I definitely respect, and the only means, I believe, one can learn from his or her mistakes.  Is there no way to frame comments and advice in a respectful manner?  <snipped for brevity>

Considering that your post basically reiterated darn near everything that I said, can you explain the highlighted above?



Tristan -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 7:05:30 PM)

Is there a reason you believe I've commented on your posts?



DecadentDesire -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 7:06:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Oh alright, I'm being snarky, for which I do apologise.

For what it's worth... your initial posts really did leave me with the impression that you're a stupid asshat. Your "Both of you should learn to read" and your "I'm sickened by some of the responses here.." struck me as unbelievably pompous and arrogant.

Then you tip it the "academic" by debating the definitions of words, which made me think that you fancied yourself as some kind of intellectual, and yes it was childish of me to point out your misuse of the word "corporal" but sheesh... it was almost as if you were begging to have your bubble burst.

Then you respond to my post by misrepresenting the meaning of violence (and on correction you imply that you understood that violence had a broader meaning than you'd previously implied).

Then you rocked up with the "petty sadist or small child" nonsense, so I thought I'd give you a dig in return.

So if you really are here to engage in healthy debate, then man-up, pull on the daddy pants and expect to get some stick from time to time!


Hey man, it's cool. I thought you were a petty condescending sadist who was just here to get his rocks off with shock value and little digs at people, but you made a really strong argument at the end there that caught me by surprise. I was pretty sure you were just gonna keep going on with nothing but digs about my grammar.

I can see how my statements can come off as pompous and arrogant, but I really was just shocked at some of the criticism I was seeing.

So we're both a little bit a wrong about each other.

I apologize if I came off like a prick. I was trying really hard to dodge some of your jabs and keep the issue at hand, but you were laying it on pretty thick. [;)]

As far as the future, you can give me all the "stick" you want, but sorry, I don't agree with your style and approach and won't be giving any "stick" back if I can avoid it.



LadyPact -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 7:09:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristan

Is there a reason you believe I've commented on your posts?

Considering that other folks on the thread were talking to each other, I was the last person that actually addressed the OP.



DecadentDesire -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 7:28:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
Good, because honestly anything else is just plain weak-assed in every sense. It's eve worse than "being settled then re-opened". It's "As the leader (and the guy ultimately responsible) I have already admitted culpability in this situation yet now I want to punish her?" Oh pulease.


I'm not in disagreement on any of that. In fact, I strongly agree. Maybe I just didn't do a good enough job explaining in my initial post just how much of a bad idea I think that is.

But maybe I sympathize with the OP a little bit. When your young and new to the whole "dominant" thing, there is this misconception created from fiction and the Internet that your supposed to slap your girl or paddle her, because that's just what dominants do.

And rather than just run off and do that, he took the time to come here and ask for advice about it.

For that, my hat is off to him.

quote:

Wait, I didn't see crazy say that and I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe it. What I specifically saw him say is that depending on the relationship it may be warranted. BUT, if that was the ultimate tool of control then he'd consider himself a failure. So would I. So would any leader I know of.


To be honest, I am having a hard time figuring out what exactly his stance is on this issue between the snark and the grammar correction.

But if I have suggested in anyway that it's the "ultimate tool of control", then I am being grossly misinterpreted. It is A tool, but not "the" tool. If the driving force in a relationship was "Do it or I will hit you", then I would agree 100% that that the dominant was a failure as a leader.

In fact, I think the cons of it out weigh the pros.
  • It does NOT solve any serious relationship issue. In fact, it will make most of them worst.
  • It is NOT a replacement for adult communication.
  • It can and will backfire on the wrong people.
  • It takes a lot of self control and composure to effectively use it to positive and constructive ends in a relationship.
  • It is always dancing with a thin line with abuse.
  • The situations where it is inappropriate and unwarranted as a form of discipline easily outnumber the situations where it might not be.
Despite these cons, I do come from a family that has a long history of using physical discipline in raising children, I know dominants in the flesh and blood who effectively use it in their relationships with submissives they are still very happily with today, and I have used it myself to effective ends in a very limited number of situations. Therefore, I don't take the stance that's its invalid or doesn't have a place.

It's a loaded gun that needs to be treated with a healthy degree of respect.

quote:


I think I'll just pass on the grammer snippiness (and yes, I know that I misspelled "grammar" and "snippiness" isn't a word). I'm just feeling like a grammer edge player today.


Stay away from that wild use of "then" instead of "than". I might have to make that a new hard limit.



DecadentDesire -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/7/2011 7:58:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Talk about someone whose reading comprehension is off the mark....

I made the important part of that comment as obvious as possible. You do understand what "or" means, right?

This guy says himself that "if I call her out on it, I'm most likely going to slap her once or twice."

Does that really sound like someone under control to you? You want to hold yourself out as the authority on this matter, go for it. But stop acting like an ass because other experienced and intelligent people disagree with what you said.

And by the way, people disagreed with what you said because it was only relevant to the idea of how to go about slapping someone.

Oh yea, and "corporeal" refers to ": having, consisting of, or relating to a physical material body: as a: not spiritual b: not immaterial or intangible : substantial"

If you want to portry yourself as someone who is so well versed, at least attempt to get the terms right.


I don't want to keep beating a dead horse here so sorry if I don't respond to most of your points.

If you look past all my snark that was aimed back at crazy, all I was really trying to get at with my stuff on the definition of violence is that I, personally, draw a distinction between physical force used as discipline and violence, much in the same way that the BDSM community as a whole makes a distinction between S&M and violence.



strangedesire -> RE: Slap my submissive? (7/8/2011 6:34:50 AM)

Stories are not data, not even the true ones. But this is a story.

My brother, who is not really into BDSM, once was in a relationship with a girl who told him that she wanted him to "smack her" if she was "acting stupid." He's 6'3" and strong. She was a tall, skinny redhead, delicate-boned, barely eighteen. They were more or less living together at the time.

Twice, I believe, he slapped her when they were fighting. Remember, she had consented to it in general, if not at the time. That was the point. He didn't get off on it. From the little that he knows about my proclivities, he's said that he finds the sexual pleasure that I derive from sadism mysterious.

I think she saw him throw something in anger, once. He can be terrifying when angry, just because of his size. He's broken up knife fights with his bare hands. It's like watching a huge rubber band stretch - you become very aware of how much it would hurt if he lost control.

They broke up. It came out, afterward, that she was terrified of him after that. Bear in mind, he'd never done anything to her that she hadn't asked for, but the effect of being slapped when he was angry stuck with her. It broke his heart, honestly. He's a gentle guy, good with small children and animals, and having a person he loved afraid of him shook him up.



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