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RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 1:48:42 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

While the other side of CM is often referred to by people as a dating site, the whole of the place isn't. Seriously, there are a number of folks here who aren't looking to date. Some are just here for discussions, others are here because they are vendors of BDSM products, etc. You get the idea.

A lot of people don't answer emails just because they get so many. Others don't because they become accustomed to nonsense "hi wanna chat" type messages. The more crap that gets sent, the less likely women are going to be willing to answer anyone. If you don't believe Me, ask how many women here have hidden their profiles, either temporarily or permanently because they got absolutely sick of the low quality email they receive.

From the date on your profile, if you got busted by the spam filter, you are absolutely NOT being part of the solution. You are being part of the problem.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 41

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 1:58:09 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

quote:

Besides, I'm not sure if Alpha knows

I can't be sure, but since I used to do just this sort of thing, I'll hazard a guess that she may indeed not know. The filters are most likely set at the network administration level, not the site administration level.

The most likely method of it working is as follows:

It's an automated system that runs independently of any person. It monitors traffic flow and is triggered when a certain number of messages are sent within a certain amount of time. Once that happens the account is flagged and the traffic analyzed on a binary level to compare them (i.e. nobody is reading them, the system simply does CRC type calculations on them to determine if they are the same). Once this calculation determines that the messages are essentially the same, the filter is invoked.

The number of messages and the time frame required to flag an account and the amount of time the filter stays in effect are controlled by the site's design, they are usually controlled by a separate piece of software from the one that actually carries the site.

This may not be the method used here, but I doubt what is used is substantially different from what I suggest.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to ModTwentyOne)

Post #: 42

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 2:14:37 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

Well, LadyPact, if trying to draw out, and positively identify scammers so I can report them is part of the problem... I'm not sure what solution you're looking for is, but I want no part of it.

As for the nature of the other side of the site: if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck... Its probably a duck. If people want to to treat it like an eagle, I see no problem with that. Just remember, it's still a duck.

Thanks Arpig for that general dissertation on e-mail spam filtering. I was thinking maybe Markovian discrimination or Bayesian filtering.

Which then leads me to the other part of my question: Why did 2 separate accounts have differing times on their email block? One was less than 4 hours, and the other is still ticking up on 24 hours

< Message edited by IrishThorns -- 7/6/2011 2:19:58 PM >

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 43

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 2:40:38 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

Look, dude, it really doesn't matter. you joined the site and spammed a bunch of people until you got shut down, and from the sounds of it you opened a 2nd account and proceeded to spam people with that one until that got filtered as well.

That's what LadyPact meant by you being part of the problem.

Walk away from the keyboard and when the filter is removed, then start over, being more discriminating the next time.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 44

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 3:04:58 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishThorns

Well, LadyPact, if trying to draw out, and positively identify scammers so I can report them is part of the problem... I'm not sure what solution you're looking for is, but I want no part of it.

Perhaps something was lost in the multiple posts. I'm not talking about the problem of "scammers". The discussion I've been attempting to have with you is regarding "spammers". Two very different categories.

quote:

As for the nature of the other side of the site: if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck... Its probably a duck. If people want to to treat it like an eagle, I see no problem with that. Just remember, it's still a duck.

We'll have to differ here, since not everyone with a profile on the other side is here to date. There are many folks who aren't looking for anyone.

quote:

Thanks Arpig for that general dissertation on e-mail spam filtering. I was thinking maybe Markovian discrimination or Bayesian filtering.

Which then leads me to the other part of my question: Why did 2 separate accounts have differing times on their email block? One was less than 4 hours, and the other is still ticking up on 24 hours

You'd really have to ask the individuals on that one. I've opened email, seen it was crap, then went on to messages that I actually *wanted* to read and respond to, then go back and block the ones that held no interest for Me.

You really *don't* see your part in this, do you? When you start your next screen name, will you at least have some common courtesy not to bother folks who have blocked the past ones? That is something that you would want if people were annoying you. If you weren't annoying people via email, they wouldn't be blocking you at all.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 45

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 3:53:58 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Look, dude, it really doesn't matter. you joined the site and spammed a bunch of people until you got shut down, and from the sounds of it you opened a 2nd account and proceeded to spam people with that one until that got filtered as well.

That's what LadyPact meant by you being part of the problem.

Walk away from the keyboard and when the filter is removed, then start over, being more discriminating the next time.

As for the second account, it is being used only for responding to the emails I've been receiving. I'm sitting out initial contacts until the spam filter expires.

The test account was just for cross correlation of data, using known scammer accounts to get it banned, and then see how the system reacted.

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 46

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 4:02:52 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

I see my part in this, I sent too many *short* emails too *quickly*. The fact that I was using those emails to help weed scammers (something the site admin have said NOT to report to them, so it's up to members to regulate via the automated system) is the reasoning as to why they were sent. But the site can't differentiate on that point.

My point about the other side is use it for what you need it for, but it's designed around meeting new people. Expect others to use it for exactly that. Especially new members.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 47

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 5:13:49 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishThorns

I see my part in this, I sent too many *short* emails too *quickly*. The fact that I was using those emails to help weed scammers (something the site admin have said NOT to report to them, so it's up to members to regulate via the automated system) is the reasoning as to why they were sent. But the site can't differentiate on that point.

My point about the other side is use it for what you need it for, but it's designed around meeting new people. Expect others to use it for exactly that. Especially new members.

I wouldn't say you're weeding out method works very well. The "scammer" concept is more he said/she said most of the time. Are their profiles here that are made up? Sure. Are there pro and fin dommes here? You bet. Just like you, they have the right to use the site any way they like.

Had the folks you wrote replied to your emails, rather than report you, what would it have proved? How do you get to judge? You really don't expect the 'get on cam or you're not real' bit to fly, do you? Not everybody is going to want to converse with everybody else, even if you send quality emails.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 48

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 5:31:17 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

Nope, I don't report a scammer as such until they ask for money for 'dance license' or something similar. 'Get on cam or your not real', that's funny. I think on 4chan it wad called 'tits or GTFO'. Nice of you to presume upon my methods, but you're mistaken.

I'm also very conscientious about not sending an email to someone I have already sent one too, if they chose not to reply. Sometimes they slip through, but it's unintentional.

So, in this case if someone says no, or doesn't respond, they get no more mail from me. Man, what a Spam machine I am!

I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to define spam in a context of a number greater than '1'.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 49

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 6:47:19 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

quote:

I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to define spam in a context of a number greater than '1'.

You're the second person in the last few months to come on here whining about the spam filter and claiming they weren't spamming. It doesn't matter one whit how you define spam, we've explained to you how the site defines it for purposes of the filter.

That's all that matters. You spammed, got filtered, then created a 2nd account to get around the filter. And then came on here to tell us all about it. You've asked your question, you've been given your answer.

Now just move on, having leaned how the spam filter here works.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 7/6/2011 6:48:11 PM >

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 50

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:10:39 PM

VideoAdminAlpha

Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishThorns

Hmmm. It takes 5 minutes (maybe) to set up a new Hotmail and CollarMe account, so this seems effective only at blocking people concerned with keeping their accounts active. Once you shut off an account, if I recall correctly, after 2 days the name is available again. So I contend that knowing the spam filters settings does nothing for its effectiveness, as it only stops the honest anyways; people who would actually abide by the numbers, if known.

Most people have no problem with the filters they way they are. They also realize after a short period of time that spamming support bitching about it does not usually affect their case and they stop doing that.....just sayin.

Edit: they also realize that they can't figure things out by starting multiple accounts to *supposedly* figure out the spam filter for obvious reasons, amazing that all the accounts started have been locked though, doncha think?

I would say that's a shame that it has happened to you, since apparently you only send out mail to "find scammers that are on the site" so you can "expose them", then snort, but that would be unprofessional.

< Message edited by VideoAdminAlpha -- 7/6/2011 7:20:02 PM >

_____________________________

You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 51

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:14:34 PM

IrishThorns2

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/6/2011
Status: offline

posted in error

< Message edited by IrishThorns2 -- 7/6/2011 7:43:25 PM >

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 52

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:29:14 PM

IrishThorns2

Posts: 2
Joined: 7/6/2011
Status: offline

posted in error

< Message edited by IrishThorns2 -- 7/6/2011 7:43:45 PM >

(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)

Post #: 53

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:29:25 PM

VideoAdminAlpha

Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

It also gives those that have non altruistic goals in their mails guidelines on how to get around our rules.

Theoretical question here: if you are only "spamming fake accounts" why did you say you started a second account to respond to emails you have been receiving? I'm confused, if someone says 'leave me the fuck alone" or whatever you think makes them fake and by your statement you only send one mail, and that your accounts are not mailing "real" users, who are you responding to?

Theoretical question, this was not asked to get an answer. This is also my last contribution to this thread as I am not authorized to answer any specifics should arise, as they already have,

_____________________________

You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.

(in reply to IrishThorns2)

Post #: 54

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:33:38 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

I'm sorry Arpig, I don't think that my last post was clear enough, and that's my fault.

I was spamming. I wasn't spamming real profiles, I was baiting scammers to help better the site (and I was bored). BUT that doesn't matter. There is a rule in place, and I broke it, so I got sanctioned. Rightly so.

My initial question was:'Does anyone know what triggers the Spam Filter or how long it lasts? I'm not looking for links to the FAQ (already been there), but numbers ad quantifiable data.'

So, NO, I haven't received the answer to my questions. But that's easy to get lost in such a long thread 3 pages, as of now). As for how the spam filter works, that still hasn't been made clear, and I believe that to be intentional.

Let me put this same principle to 2 different scenarios and see what everyone thinks of them:

Scenario 1: You live in a town with no speed limit signs. There are speed limits, you're just not allowed to know them. When you ticketed, it only says 'violating the speed limit'. The fine is not the same between different cases. Does this sound right to you?

Scenario 2: In you M/s relationship, the Master has rules, kept in their head and no place else. These rules aren't communicated, but violation of them results in punishment. Sometimes severe, sometimes mild. Is this a relationship you would want to be in?

Having rules is a good thing. Preventing spam is a good thing. But for rules to be effective, they must be made clear and applied fairly. Anything else just feeds paranoia.

(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)

Post #: 55

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:35:04 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

Thanks for the post!

Just to show off my general geekiness... 'With great power comes great responsibility'.
Lacking anyone else to talk to, and having milestones against which to compare the duration of the spam filter block, makes for a bad combination.

What was that saying?... "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." I believe it was.

One of the things I learned the military is that when dealing with something like 'customer support', is don't let your issue fall to the back of their minds. Otherwise your problem simply gets buried by newer stuff. When the support detachment lost my service record (for months!), the only time they looked for it was when I came in to ask about it. I ended up sitting at their office for every day for a week, under orders that it be my regular daily duty, so they would look for it. Consider that an object lesson in tenacity and perseverance.

I waited what I thought was long enough for 'temporarily disabled', having milestones from others onwhch to base that number, before I contacted support the first time. As for the 'short period of time', we called 3 months 'short underways', so that's a very subjective term

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 56

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:36:14 PM

VideoAdminAlpha

Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishThorns2

[

I am going to make one more response after all......I would say that sending a letter to support every hour on the hour with a updated time line on how long your filter has been in effect is not the same as waiting 3 months......just sayin!!!!

Edit: amazingly enough, the quote dissappeared after I addressed what you thought were salient rebuttals..

< Message edited by VideoAdminAlpha -- 7/6/2011 7:38:12 PM >

_____________________________

You can't please all the people all of the time.Unfortunately there are times you cannot please any of them :( You can only do your best, and hope they realize that.

(in reply to IrishThorns2)

Post #: 57

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 7:41:46 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminAlpha

It also gives those that have non altruistic goals in their mails guidelines on how to get around our rules.

Theoretical question here: if you are only "spamming fake accounts" why did you say you started a second account to respond to emails you have been receiving? I'm confused, if someone says 'leave me the fuck alone" or whatever you think makes them fake and by your statement you only send one mail, and that your accounts are not mailing "real" users, who are you responding to?

Theoretical question, this was not asked to get an answer. This is also my last contribution to this thread as I am not authorized to answer any specifics should arise, as they already have,

Because, I've been carrying on conversations with... REAL PEOPLE <GASP!> People who've I sent nice messages too, the types of ones every seems to be so dying to receive. And the responses are beyond 'leave me the fuck alone'. Though I did get one of those, and have graciously done exactly that. (Mild misunderstanding when I read her, now deleted, profile). Anyone who says that, gets that; as uncommon an occurrence as it is for my inbox. With no reporting, or any other such vindictive nonsense.

What makes them fake is when they say "meet me on Y!, I'm [email protected]' and then, oh, I need $200 to get my dance license (or some other such nonsense), can you send it to me? THEN they get reported as scamming, because they are.

(in reply to VideoAdminAlpha)

Post #: 58

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 8:00:19 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

quote:

Does anyone know what triggers the Spam Filter or how long it lasts?

Dude, I explained that to you.

It's triggered when you send out too many messages that are essentially the same in too short a period of time.

As for how long it lists, know idea, I've never been filtered and don't know anybody who has. Maybe when your ban is lifted you can come back and let us know.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to IrishThorns)

Post #: 59

RE: Spam Filter - 7/6/2011 8:05:17 PM

IrishThorns

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/7/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

It's triggered when you send out too many messages that are essentially the same in too short a period of time.

As for how long it lists, know idea, I've never been filtered and don't know anybody who has. Maybe when your ban is lifted you can come back and let us know.

Thank you Arpig, your initial explanation was, I thought, very good. I'd go ahead and say it's probably as good as I'm going to get, Compliments to you, good sir!

(In retrospect, because this is the internet and sometimes tone is hard to tell in conversations, I'm going to clarify: I'm not being sarcastic. That was meant to read as written, as a genuine thank you and compliment.)

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 60

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