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RE: News of the World - 7/19/2011 5:05:33 PM

Politesub53

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No different from New Labour though. Lets not forget Blair flew to Australia at Murdochs request. The right hand side of our politics doesnt come out of this any better than our left, and vice versa.

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RE: News of the World - 7/19/2011 5:19:49 PM

Aneirin

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I agree, Bliar was so much about his image rather than he as a politician, which is why I stated whatever happened to a government that just did that onerous job of governing the fucking country without the need for people to make them look pretty to the populace. I abhor this image status that PM's nowadays tend to want, for they should know being in the hot seat is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation, for virtually half of the voting public might support your actions and half will not despite what sense it might be.

The breath of fresh air in this respect recently although the person concerned was a bit of a public and perhaps a political failure was Brown, for he just tried to run the country, not appeal to the masses via his manipulated public image.

If governments dropped the razzmatazz, kicked out the media, I woud have more respect for them and that because as I am aware media is based on half truths, I understand when media work closely with government both half truths end up becoming major clusterfucks if not carefully managed. But sad, but perhaps predicatable that the fuzz got involved with the shit, but then most don't trust them anyway.

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Post #: 142

RE: News of the World - 7/19/2011 5:26:05 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The breath of fresh air in this respect recently although the person concerned was a bit of a public and perhaps a political failure was Brown, for he just tried to run the country, not appeal to the masses via his manipulated public image.

Not according to Murdochs testimony today, he said Brown was the one he went to see most.

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RE: News of the World - 7/19/2011 9:32:36 PM

tweakabelle

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How did people feel the Murdochs' and Brooks' testimony went?

Media reaction here has been sceptical - from some reporters laughing derisively at the whole notion of Murdoch Snr expressing remorse for anything, dismissal of 'over coached' performances, some focus on the table-thumping anger and some references to the sympathy factor generated by the idiotic assault on an 80 year old man.

Quite a lot of commentary has zeroed in on Murdoch Snr's stumbling delivery. Voices predicting his demise at the helm of News Corp have grown more strident. Most commentators agreed he looked and acted his age. Outside of Murdoch media, which was predictably sympathetic to the ageing mogul, very few observers feel that any of the significant questions have been answered decisively by either of the Murdochs or Brooks.

If News Corp trio's purpose in appearing before the HOC committee was to stem the tsunami of adverse news, it seems to have failed completely.

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RE: News of the World - 7/19/2011 10:11:24 PM

FirstQuaker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The breath of fresh air in this respect recently although the person concerned was a bit of a public and perhaps a political failure was Brown, for he just tried to run the country, not appeal to the masses via his manipulated public image.

Not according to Murdochs testimony today, he said Brown was the one he went to see most.

I think Brown is like Gerald Ford in the aftermath of the Nixon devastation, history will have a little kinder and show a bit more respect for him them those present at the time, Blair left him a monstrous pile of trash to deal with, when Blair happily danced off into the sunset. The UK hasn't seen the the full ramifications and end of the Blair disaster just yet.

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RE: News of the World - 7/19/2011 11:07:23 PM

Aneirin

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I agree and I do feel Bliar was a liability to this country, a danger and with that smile permanently welded to his face a smiling knife. But I still remember the anti labour art work of the time and I remember it well ;

I think this has toss to do with one's political affiliations, but has a lot to do with how one feels about a potential leader, Bliar at the time of his election, I feel was an ill thought out move, but then it seemed the grey man; Major, just had to go, he was not exciting enough, but to me despite a difference in ideas, to me, he was better as a PM than any that we have had since.

Bliar, I still don't get it, how can a war monger slide into a job bearing the title; peace envoy, who got him that job, Bush, and what sort of peace would Bush want ?

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 7/19/2011 11:08:29 PM >

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RE: News of the World - 7/19/2011 11:56:26 PM

FirstQuaker

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War monger and peace envoy are the head and tail of the same animal.

The European Clausewitz who said "War is the continuation of policy by other means" knew what he was speaking about.

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RE: News of the World - 7/20/2011 12:39:45 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

Bliar, I still don't get it, how can a war monger slide into a job bearing the title; peace envoy, who got him that job, Bush, and what sort of peace would Bush want ?

Yes exactly Anerim. One way of assessing Blair's contribution to peace in the ME is to examine the outcomes.

Subsequent to Blair's involvement, the Palestinian 'peace process' has gone backwards. Not all the blame can be laid at Blessed Tony's contribution of course - Israeli intransigence has made peace making an impossible task in the ME for years. Blessed Tony has had zilch to say about this publicly. Privately, according to the Pals, he's siding with the Israelis (in line with his American masters' voice, just like the faithful poodle he is).

Even in the sole instance where he can claim some success in peace making - the Northern Ireland peace process - most accounts I've seen credit US Senator Mitchell and Irish PM Aherne with far more influential and productive roles than Blessed Tony.

It seems Blair is far more talented and successful at warmongering than making peace.

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RE: News of the World - 7/20/2011 2:17:21 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

How did people feel the Murdochs' and Brooks' testimony went?

Media reaction here has been sceptical - from some reporters laughing derisively at the whole notion of Murdoch Snr expressing remorse for anything, dismissal of 'over coached' performances, some focus on the table-thumping anger and some references to the sympathy factor generated by the idiotic assault on an 80 year old man.

Quite a lot of commentary has zeroed in on Murdoch Snr's stumbling delivery. Voices predicting his demise at the helm of News Corp have grown more strident. Most commentators agreed he looked and acted his age. Outside of Murdoch media, which was predictably sympathetic to the ageing mogul, very few observers feel that any of the significant questions have been answered decisively by either of the Murdochs or Brooks.

If News Corp trio's purpose in appearing before the HOC committee was to stem the tsunami of adverse news, it seems to have failed completely.

I think part of Murdochs delivery was stalling for time. As far as I know they were only before the committee for a pre agreed period. All in all it was as much as I had expected, no one, least of all Brooks, was going to incriminate themselves with an ongoing police investigation.

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RE: News of the World - 7/20/2011 2:28:08 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

I think Brown is like Gerald Ford in the aftermath of the Nixon devastation, history will have a little kinder and show a bit more respect for him them those present at the time, Blair left him a monstrous pile of trash to deal with, when Blair happily danced off into the sunset. The UK hasn't seen the the full ramifications and end of the Blair disaster just yet.

I think you are partly right as we have two seperate issues Brown will be remembered for. Regards Iraq it was almost entirely driven by Blair. Brown has since said he was against going into Iraq, yet never spoke up beforehand, as was the case with most of our MPs. So yes, history will treat Brown in a kinder light.

I am not sure history will be so kind regards the economy though FQ. Brown was also Chancellor for Blair and as such responsible for fiscal policy, and much of the mess, the economy got into. I am not sure if you ever saw Browns "No more boom and bust" speech, ironically made just before we hit meltdown.

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RE: News of the World - 7/20/2011 4:15:58 AM

Anaxagoras

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
I agree and I do feel Blair was a liability to this country, a danger and with that smile permanently welded to his face a smiling knife. But I still remember the anti labour art work of the time and I remember it well ;

That "anti labour art work" was actually the Tory election poster for the 1997 general election. If anything that cheap shot helped discredit an already discredited Tory party.

quote:

I think this has toss to do with one's political affiliations, but has a lot to do with how one feels about a potential leader, Blair at the time of his election, I feel was an ill thought out move, but then it seemed the grey man; Major, just had to go, he was not exciting enough, but to me despite a difference in ideas, to me, he was better as a PM than any that we have had since.

Blair, I still don't get it, how can a war monger slide into a job bearing the title; peace envoy, who got him that job, Bush, and what sort of peace would Bush want ?

Blair's running as PM wasn't ill-judged. He had his detractors as every leader does but he was a hugely popular figure who brought two sweeping victories for the Labour party at election time. In 1997 the Tory's had been in for 18 years and the country wasn't in a particularly good state. Major was a weak PM who wasn't able to even command party loyalty. Norman Lamont's incompetence caused the Pound to crash out of the ERM in 1992. Yes Iraq was a major fuck up but there was little opposition to British involvement in foreign disputes before that time. The one reason I don't hate Blair is because he did considerably more than any other UK leader to resolve the conflict in Northern Ireland. It was his will to keep it going despite setback after setback that kept it on track, even when it seemed it wasn't particularly popular in Britain, at least judging by how the media treated it.

Of course Iraq will forever tarnish his rep (and rightfully so) but my point is that his time on office isn't black and white. BTW I thoughtfully corrected your quote for typos.

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RE: News of the World - 7/20/2011 6:03:22 AM

FirstQuaker

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The economic problems actually go back before Labour, though by continuing to follow the Tory economic principles, Labour took ownership of the problem.

The real trouble, both in the US and in the UK is the Anglo-Saxon banking system, and how similar manipulations in each country produced remarkably similar results. Most thinking people see the roots of the problems in both places going back into the mid 1970s.

Pragmatically all Labour could have done was mitigate the trouble to a large extent, but the UK, like the US, was living well beyond its means, and basically printing money to fund its governmental operations, and using the resulting inflation as a hidden tax.

Every British government since then and Including Thatcher's are guilty of it, in my and many other's opinions. The US is little different, look at what happened to Carter, if you want an example of any leader who did not toe this "free money" line, and the consequences.

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RE: News of the World - 7/21/2011 8:25:15 AM

Aneirin

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Too true, that is why the change we all seem to be seeking never seems to happen, no matter who or what political party gets into power. Some sources suggest the politcians, any politicians that get into power serve higher interests first before the gullible voter is ever considered beyond using their pocket to pay for fuck ups.

So the UK, the US, Canada and wherever else cast your mind back to when you first had the vote, and ask yourself the question, has anything ever changed in all your years of voting ?

Or has all your fair play and honesty been in vain, because nothing really changes.

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RE: News of the World - 7/21/2011 8:41:34 AM

FirstQuaker

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Well, Trudeau significantly changed Canada, in my opinion for the better, in many respects, especially in regard to getting Canada into deciding it was a nation and out of the colonial mentality.

Canada is definitely a different land now then it was before the Constitution Act.of 1982.

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RE: News of the World - 7/21/2011 8:51:55 AM

Aneirin

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Yeah, Canada does seem to be rather level headed and a place with a future and that is quite possibly why many educated Britons emmigrate there every year. I have friends who have moved there, in fact, all my pals from my youth have emmigrated, got their qualifications and gone leaving Britain in the dust of a dying country.

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RE: News of the World - 7/21/2011 8:56:01 AM

FirstQuaker

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I see that with Murdoch's testimony meeting the full approval of Prince Alwaleed bin Talal on behalf of the House of Saud, and thus everything is okay now, the UK can move along to more important things -

"I fully support the hearings that took place in (Britain's) parliament as part of a necessary process to address the unacceptable practices that developed at the now-closed News of the World," Alwaleed said in a statement. - http://news.yahoo.com/murdoch-spoke-honestly-saudi-prince-alwaleed-234744094.html

The UK should probably check in with the Chinese ambassador too, just to make sure the CCP approves also.

(Does this need a sarcasm smiley?)

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RE: News of the World - 7/21/2011 9:47:59 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirstQuaker

I see that with Murdoch's testimony meeting the full approval of Prince Alwaleed bin Talal on behalf of the House of Saud, and thus everything is okay now, the UK can move along to more important things -

"I fully support the hearings that took place in (Britain's) parliament as part of a necessary process to address the unacceptable practices that developed at the now-closed News of the World," Alwaleed said in a statement. - http://news.yahoo.com/murdoch-spoke-honestly-saudi-prince-alwaleed-234744094.html

The UK should probably check in with the Chinese ambassador too, just to make sure the CCP approves also.

(Does this need a sarcasm smiley?)

Apparently it does, but not for the reason you think. Talal is a major investor in Newscorp and his statement was to express confidence in Murdoch's continued leadership and to support the value of the company, not to "bless" the hearings.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 7/21/2011 9:48:28 AM >

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RE: News of the World - 7/21/2011 10:01:58 AM

FirstQuaker

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Why is it not surprising to anyone that you endorse and approve of the House of Saud having a major say in your favorite "fair and balanced" news source and its management and policies?

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RE: News of the World - 7/22/2011 5:25:50 AM

FirstQuaker

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Looks like they have James Murdoch tagged for lying to Parliament. -

"James Murdoch was accused of lying to MPs this week when he said he he had not seen an internal email which suggested hacking at the tabloid was widespread before authorising a settlement. Colin Myler, the newspaper's former editor and Tom Crone, who resigned last week as legal manager for the Murdoch media empire's British publishing arm News International, issued a statement saying they had shown him the message before he authorised a key payout to a victim.
Myler and Crone said: "We would like to point out that James Murdoch's recollection of what he was told when agreeing to settle the ...litigation was mistaken."" - http://news.yahoo.com/scandal-grows-james-murdoch-evidence-questioned-065239219.html
"Oh you didn't know?" Lying to Parliament was an offense last I looked, at least in Canada.

Then, apparently not happy with hacking the phones of murder victims, they took to hacking their lawyer's phones too -

"BBC's Newsnight programme on Thursday reported that the phones of the lawyers of three victims, including murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler, had been hacked as recently as December last year."

Then there was the vetting of Coulson when he was invited to join Cameron's government -

"Cameron told an emergency parliamentary session on Wednesday that "with 20-20 hindsight" he would not have hired Coulson.
But there was more trouble Thursday amid reports that Coulson did not have the highest level of security vetting before taking up his Downing Street job, raising questions about whether there were doubts over his appointment."
Who can say what tomorrow will bring.

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RE: News of the World - 7/22/2011 6:07:37 AM

Politesub53

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Cameron wont be forced out over this. Coulson told Cameron exactly what he told the commons select committee and the high court. If he lied to one he lied to all three, Cameron has said if thats the case he (Coulson) shoul be charged by the authorities. As much as Miliband wants this to stick, it isn`t going to happen.

James Murdoch, on the other hand, could be in deep water. I am sure the police investigating this will want to interview both Myers and Crone.

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