RE: question of punishment

RE: question of punishment (Full Version)

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KutenHyperkitty -> RE: question of punishment (7/9/2011 1:49:55 PM)
well depends on what you didn't do, you can be awsome all week and sliip up and do something your Master has told you not too. Or maybe he is strict and didn't let you know that before he took you as his own, if you really wana stay out of trouble, play dumb and beg for forgiveness that's what I do all the time....which is not a good way to go because soon your Master will notice this if you do it all the time.

graceadieu -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 1:37:14 PM)
Edited because I posted before I saw your second comment to me. Yeah, I meant that he was being rude to her friend. Just because she should've obeyed him doesn't mean he should've told her to in the first place. Of course, I'm assuming here she's being totally truthful about the whole situation, that he ordered her to hang up on her friend just because he didn't get on with this person. But like you said, there could be a whole other side to it. Who knows.

OsideGirl -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 2:17:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KutenHyperkitty well depends on what you didn't do, you can be awsome all week and sliip up and do something your Master has told you not too. Or maybe he is strict and didn't let you know that before he took you as his own, if you really wana stay out of trouble, play dumb and beg for forgiveness that's what I do all the time....which is not a good way to go because soon your Master will notice this if you do it all the time. They're 19. They've been together 3 years. She recently convinced him to try D/s. He has no clue what he's doing and neither does she. To add to the situation she doesn't communicate clearly. Your advice is bad advice. It's lying to your Dominant. But, beyond that it's not even relevant to this situation.

PrincessDonna1 -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 3:22:10 PM)
Wow not once have I heard anyone say why are you talking to this person if you know your master doesnt like them? Sounds to me like you may be challenging him

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 4:39:47 PM)
Just smear some of this stuff on your bottom... the smell it'll leave on his hand will ensure he never spanks you again!!! Liquid Ass ---> http://www.amazon.com/liquid-ass-Liquid/dp/B000OCEWGW [sm=rofl.gif]lol

OsideGirl -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 4:50:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna1 Wow not once have I heard anyone say why are you talking to this person if you know your master doesnt like them? Sounds to me like you may be challenging him No, it sounds like she has someone in her life that her D doesn't like. He doesn't have to like everyone that she likes. Just like she doesn't have to like everyone in his life either. Unless, there's a better reason, like toxicity. But part two here is: Just because this is D/s doesn't mean that you get to be rude. What he did was rude and he expected her to be rude because he said so.

DesFIP -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 4:53:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna1 Wow not once have I heard anyone say why are you talking to this person if you know your master doesnt like them? Sounds to me like you may be challenging him Okay Donna, I have a question. You meet some guy who becomes your dominant, but he doesn't like one of your kids. You going to kick the kid out because of a guy you've known six months? Obviously you're challenging him by not doing so. Or not? The op's probably known this friend for over a decade, but her master for a lot less. The friendship has stood the test of time, this relationship has not.

hangemhigh1953 -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 5:44:17 PM)
Speaking from a strictly behavioral psychological point of view, punishment doesn't work, behavior is shaped solely through positive reinforcement (application of pleasure) or negative reinforcement (removal of pain). But then again I am very new to everything so I don't know how that fits into this lifestyle, it appears to me that training is rarely done solely for the end result, the punishment seems to often be kind of a ritual as well.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 5:54:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna1 Wow not once have I heard anyone say why are you talking to this person if you know your master doesnt like them? Sounds to me like you may be challenging him No, it sounds like she has someone in her life that her D doesn't like. He doesn't have to like everyone that she likes. Just like she doesn't have to like everyone in his life either. Unless, there's a better reason, like toxicity. But part two here is: Just because this is D/s doesn't mean that you get to be rude. What he did was rude and he expected her to be rude because he said so. [sm=agree.gif]

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 5:57:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953 Speaking from a strictly behavioral psychological point of view, punishment doesn't work, behavior is shaped solely through positive reinforcement (application of pleasure) or negative reinforcement (removal of pain). Punishment is "negative reinforcement"... the AVOIDANCE of pain. Works for some, not for all.

hangemhigh1953 -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 7:20:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Punishment is "negative reinforcement"... the AVOIDANCE of pain. Works for some, not for all. That's a common misconception. Punishment is the application of pain (be it physical, mental, emotional, etc), while negative reinforcement rewards the trainee by removing pain (like taking off a chastity device, unshackling, etc). Reinforcement acts as a reward, while punishment is, well, punishment, and only works to stop a behavior from happening, but won't permanently change it or shape a new behavior. Sorry, I don't mean to get all technical, but since I discovered this lifestyle I've been curious about that in particular tbh.

Kaliko -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 7:35:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953 quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA Punishment is "negative reinforcement"... the AVOIDANCE of pain. Works for some, not for all. That's a common misconception. Punishment is the application of pain (be it physical, mental, emotional, etc), while negative reinforcement rewards the trainee by removing pain (like taking off a chastity device, unshackling, etc). Reinforcement acts as a reward, while punishment is, well, punishment, and only works to stop a behavior from happening, but won't permanently change it or shape a new behavior. Sorry, I don't mean to get all technical, but since I discovered this lifestyle I've been curious about that in particular tbh. Negative reinforcement would be the removal of pain if the pain is what the person desires. Negative reinforcement in general is "No, you did that wrong!" Positive is "Good job!" No?

LadyPact -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 7:35:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953 That's a common misconception. Punishment is the application of pain (be it physical, mental, emotional, etc), while negative reinforcement rewards the trainee by removing pain (like taking off a chastity device, unshackling, etc). Reinforcement acts as a reward, while punishment is, well, punishment, and only works to stop a behavior from happening, but won't permanently change it or shape a new behavior. Sorry, I don't mean to get all technical, but since I discovered this lifestyle I've been curious about that in particular tbh. Now ask Me how many times I've had to punish My sub for the same thing twice? As a Dominant, the only thing that I need from the tool of punishment is to get a behavior to stop. If I don't want My sub talking to person X, that's how it goes.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 7:56:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953 That's a common misconception. Punishment is the application of pain (be it physical, mental, emotional, etc), while negative reinforcement rewards the trainee by removing pain (like taking off a chastity device, unshackling, etc). Reinforcement acts as a reward, while punishment is, well, punishment, and only works to stop a behavior from happening, but won't permanently change it or shape a new behavior. Sorry, I don't mean to get all technical, but since I discovered this lifestyle I've been curious about that in particular tbh. Now ask Me how many times I've had to punish My sub for the same thing twice? This answer... for some, pain avoidance CLEARLY works!!!

sunshinemiss -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 8:11:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953 Speaking from a strictly behavioral psychological point of view, punishment doesn't work, behavior is shaped solely through positive reinforcement (application of pleasure) or negative reinforcement (removal of pain). But then again I am very new to everything so I don't know how that fits into this lifestyle, it appears to me that training is rarely done solely for the end result, the punishment seems to often be kind of a ritual as well. You really ought to watch the movie A Clockwork Orange. Oh, and you really ought to know what you are talking about when you come to the forums. sunshine

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 8:18:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss You really ought to watch the movie A Clockwork Orange. I'm siiiiiingin' in the rain... [:(]

hangemhigh1953 -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 8:22:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko Negative reinforcement would be the removal of pain if the pain is what the person desires. Negative reinforcement in general is "No, you did that wrong!" Positive is "Good job!" No? Maybe Wikipedia can explain better than I can. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_reinforcement#Positive_and_negative_reinforcement quote: As Skinner discussed, positive reinforcement is superior to punishment in altering behavior. He maintained that punishment was not simply the opposite of positive reinforcement; positive reinforcement results in lasting behavioral modification, whereas punishment changes behavior only temporarily and presents many detrimental side effects. If all you want is to modify Your subs' behavior to Your liking, it would be much faster to give them something pleasurable when they do something right, or to a lesser extent reduce their discomfort by unshackling them or something, than to use punishment. Again though, I'm very new to this and I understand if punishment is as much a sort of "ritual" as it is behavior modification. quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss You really ought to watch the movie A Clockwork Orange. Oh, and you really ought to know what you are talking about when you come to the forums. sunshine Well I've studied psychology in school... I like to think I know what I'm talking about with that. Otherwise, I joined the forums so that I can learn, feel free to tell me if I'm wrong somewhere, that's why I'm here.

DecadentDesire -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 9:22:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss quote: ORIGINAL: hangemhigh1953 Speaking from a strictly behavioral psychological point of view, punishment doesn't work, behavior is shaped solely through positive reinforcement (application of pleasure) or negative reinforcement (removal of pain). But then again I am very new to everything so I don't know how that fits into this lifestyle, it appears to me that training is rarely done solely for the end result, the punishment seems to often be kind of a ritual as well. You really ought to watch the movie A Clockwork Orange. Oh, and you really ought to know what you are talking about when you come to the forums. sunshine Well, he kind of does. In operant conditioning, they make a pretty heavy distinction between reinforcement and punishment.

winspiritsbaby -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 9:27:51 PM)
This might be a better look at operant conditioning than wikipedia for anyone who might want to understand it better... http://www.edpsycinteractive.org/topics/behsys/operant.html

sunshinemiss -> RE: question of punishment (7/10/2011 10:04:24 PM)
quote: behavior is shaped solely through positive reinforcement (application of pleasure) or negative reinforcement (removal of pain) This is what I found off base. To think that behavior is shaped only via receptive actions is leaving out a huge portion of the equation - biology, emotion, thoughts. Sorry I wasn't clearer before.

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