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Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/8/2011 7:35:10 PM   
SternSkipper


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Well, the final launch of a space shuttle by the united states went smoothly today (thank god).... STS-136 will be the last one to take to the air
Many of you grew up on this Series of low orbit flights and those who did will always remember where  the were on two fateful days:

January 28, 1986 - The Loss Of Challenger and It's Crew (1986 STS-51-L)
and ...
February 1st, 2003 - Loss of Columbia and It's Crew (STS-107)



"Atlantis has blasted off on NASA's last space shuttle launch. The historic liftoff occurred Friday morning, 30 years and three months after the very first shuttle flight. Four astronauts are riding Atlantis to orbit. The shuttle is bound for the
International Space Station, making one final supply run. Hundreds of thousands of spectators jammed Cape Canaveral and surrounding
towns for the farewell. Kennedy Space Center itself was packed with shuttle
workers, astronauts and 45,000 invited guests, the maximum allowed. The flight will last 12 days. Weather permitting, Atlantis will return to
Kennedy, where it will end up on permanent display." - Russia Today


Video-




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< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 7/8/2011 7:38:37 PM >


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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/8/2011 7:37:40 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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i wish i could've gone; always wanted to see a shuttle launch and never ever made it there. =p oh well; i'm sure there will be something else snazzy over the horizon. 

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/8/2011 8:30:40 PM   
SternSkipper


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Imagine driving down this road and witnessing this....




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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 3:10:24 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i wish i could've gone; always wanted to see a shuttle launch and never ever made it there. =p


Me too. One of my earliest memories was of one of the last Apollo missions being followed by my school when I was tiny ... I still recall the excitement we kids had as we painted our pictures and followed the mission. Never got to see one in the flesh though, as it were.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
oh well; i'm sure there will be something else snazzy over the horizon.


You may have to travel to China for it though ... hasn't America now largely abandoned manned spaceflight? I think that's a shame, but I can understand how ploughing so much money into a programme when children are still living in poverty must be a tough sell. I still think it's a shame though.

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 8:20:30 AM   
TheHeretic


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You'll have to forgive me, but I'm hoping for crappy weather at the Cape for landing. It would be fitting for the last one to make the landing right back at home. If the winds are right, I can watch it lining up on the runway from my deck, and even when the winds are wrong, that distinctive double boom tells the whole valley it has returned.



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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 8:22:07 AM   
lazarus1983


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Robert Heinlein must be spinning in his grave right now.

I think this is a terrible idea, and one we will come to regret.

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 8:24:19 AM   
GreedyTop


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bite me, TH.. LOL

I missed the launch, dammit, I wanna see the landing!  Ya'll get too many of them as it is *grin*

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 8:33:53 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
hasn't America now largely abandoned manned spaceflight?



As a government operation, yes. There will be at least a lapse. On the other hand, one of your eccentric billionaires teamed up with one our geniuses, and amazing things still happen in the skies around here.








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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 8:38:14 AM   
GreedyTop


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yay for Sir Richard Branson!! 

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 8:47:27 AM   
TheHeretic


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Screw Branson. Yay for Burt Rutan!

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 9:13:55 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

As a government operation, yes. There will be at least a lapse. On the other hand, one of your eccentric billionaires teamed up with one our geniuses, and amazing things still happen in the skies around here.


What they are doing is ceasing 'near earth orbit" missions. The mission now appears to be either flight to an asteroid in deeper space, or a mission to mars. And those will certainly be government operated missions.
   This is of course if the remainder of NASA doesn't fall onto the legal pad of an asshole like Paul Ryan. In which case the CHINESE and their rapidly moving quest for space will become the rulers in space.
This is comes at a tricky time with both China and Russia wishing to lay their claim to the moon.



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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 9:16:40 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Robert Heinlein must be spinning in his grave right now.

I think this is a terrible idea, and one we will come to regret.


I rather agree with you.

I think that it's such a shame, as with so many things in life, that the world can't come together to develop spaceflight solutions as a planet.

In other words, all nations of the world contribute a very small percentage of their GDP to a Space Exploration Institute. The profits of any commercial products generated by the institute that come to market (as research tends to generate product, as per the US moon landings) get ploughed back into said institute.

Mankind as a whole seems to have lost the vision that pushed it towards space, even if in those days it was something of a Cold War competition. But it produced truly remarkable events, and great successes, so I think we ought to continue to try. What I read these days says that it's not the technology that's holding us back anymore (in that, say, a manned Mars mission is technically possible, albeit with continued research being required), but rather the political and social will to pay for it.

I think that's rather sad.



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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 9:17:21 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper
an asshole like Paul Ryan.




So if this is where you want the conversation to go, Skippy, why not just put your thread in P&R, instead of here?

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 9:21:18 AM   
TheHeretic


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Because it is competition that drives us, Rapi.

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 9:37:23 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Because it is competition that drives us, Rapi.


I don't believe it has to be that way though, at least not among the intelligent and scientific ... I think the true challenges are the goals we all want to reach, and for as long as we think small, and local, and parochial, then that's all we'll ever be, as a species.

For example, CERN and other scientific bodies manage to group together academics from around the world to continue atomic research, so why can't something similar be tried with space exploration?

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/9/2011 9:42:27 AM   
Owner59


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I listened on NPR with an English woman watching from London along with some American based radio people in NYC also watching,including two astronauts who had been on shuttle missions.

They had the final 30 seconds on-air with the couple of pauses and starts and the chatter of the technicians.I was getting chills and found myself smiling.

It was so exciting.My heart in my throat during those 1st few very dangerous minutes.OMG....

30 years.It went by so quickly.

We are supposed to get one here in NYC to go on the flight deck of the Intrepid.I can`t wait to see one up close.I hope they let people inside.

The two astronauts had mixed feelings.They were hungry explorers and want to go.They want to in the worst way.

But they also acknowledged that the shuttle was to expensive and that manned flight was much more difficult,dangerous and expensive than un-manned vehicle missions.

One regret I have is not making a viable,sustainable space station.With all the foundational "stuff" on it to stage real inter-planetary travel.It will never happen with-out one.

But that requires a space tug,a lot of shuttles and trillions of dollars.

Maybe someday we`ll spend trillions on space exploration instead of trillions on guns and bombs


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/9/2011 9:43:12 AM >


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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 1:42:23 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

So if this is where you want the conversation to go, Skippy, why not just put your thread in P&R, instead of here?


Sorry ... I am impassioned about the space program. And a passing remark about someone who could fuck up a one car funeral, shouldn't bother you.... the perception is pretty widely held.



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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 1:51:23 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I don't believe it has to be that way though, at least not among the intelligent and scientific ... I think the true challenges are the goals we all want to reach, and for as long as we think small, and local, and parochial, then that's all we'll ever be, as a species.


You make an excellent point... As it stands now, there are many aspects of EVERY NASA mission that our local MIT Astrophysics Department includes the student population in contributing to the missions in the form of supportive research and experiment design that will likely be less, if not gone altogether from curriculum ... hopefully Mars will pick up the slack. But this going into private hands will only spur advancement along profitable avenues besides low orbit mobility and satellite launch and repair becoming a private competitive matter, I doubt there's much more we'll gain. So we NEED to reach further and we NEED to continue supporting NASA. At this critical point in time, we DON'T want to simply give up on space exploration. They keep talking about investing in the future from both sides of the aisle. I hope they get that

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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 2:56:37 AM   
Aneirin


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I remember back when the shuttle mission first started, there was an odd alternative being developed in Britain, a space vehicle that used air breathing engines to attain space, the HOTOL

I often wonder what happened to that project after it was kicked around various corporations and finally I believe ended up being sold or given to the Japanese.

But what to replace the space shuttle with, surely not wasteful chemical rockets to attain orbit, for surely given the  HOTOL idea, a space plane that takes off from earth as a plane is the way forward, attain altitude by normal aerodynamics then allow thrust to take over when the correct altitude is attained. So here we have Skylon developed from HOTOL, and a project many believe could be the space shuttle replacement.


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RE: Atlantis (STS-136) Final Shuttle Launch - 7/10/2011 4:55:58 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But what to replace the space shuttle with, surely not wasteful chemical rockets to attain orbit, for surely given the  HOTOL idea, a space plane that takes off from earth as a plane is the way forward, attain altitude by normal aerodynamics then allow thrust to take over when the correct altitude is attained. So here we have Skylon developed from HOTOL, and a project many believe could be the space shuttle replacement.


The problem as I understand it (and I'll cheerfully admit that I'm not an expert, though I do have an interest in the subject) is that, having reached the moon, the next viable (in any sense of the word) goal becomes Mars (since there's little point in merely repeating a previous achievement). The problem with this is that a manned Mars mission is several orders of magnitude more difficult than a moon landing, therefore the amount of hardware that has to be shifted across vast (by the standards of what we've previously moved across) cross-solar system distances becomes almost unfeasibly large. Put simply, the moon's just a pop to the shops in a comfy SUV, whereas getting to Mars is like trying to cross the Sahara unaided, and without water supplies.

So the challenge becomes one not so much of putting tonnage into space reliably, via a suitable launch vehicle, but of finding a more energy efficient way of achieving reasonable speeds in post-orbital spaceflight after you've got it out of earth's orbit, understanding of course that, in the case of a manned mission, one also has to bring the buggers home again afterwards.

Therefore the launch mechanism, as important as it is (and please understand I'm not dissing your point) is much less important than developing a new technology or technologies to allow much larger distances to be travelled at speeds consistent with being able to sustain human life - i.e. it's no good putting them on a slow boat to China/Mars, because they'll have munched through their rations before they're a tenth of the way there.

Historically, the most expensive endeavours are always the ones where a genuinely new technology is required - i.e. the costs of putting a man into space, then of putting him on the moon, were at the time centred around finding reliable, high-yield rocket engines (as just one example), whereas now what we need is something that can whoosh us across the big black with minimal (or at least substantially reduced) energy consumption. Since that need for an energy-efficient power source and delivery system is also a major requirement of sustaining human life in significant numbers beyond the 21st century (i.e. when the oil runs out), I'd venture to suggest that manned space flight is not something the human race "should think about doing as a “nice to have” if it feels like it", but is something it either does, and does successfully, or risks either dying out in vast numbers (as food transportation becomes impractical, as just one example) or having its numbers reduced to such an extent, with such a low energy availability, that we're effectively reduced back to a modern Stone Age. Sustainable energy production, even allowing nuclear into the mix (and that has its own issues) simply isn't enough, or anywhere near enough, at present, to allow continued survival.

So we have to reach for the stars – to do otherwise is to sign our own death warrants, as a species of course – I’ll be long gone by the time the energy crisis comes to a head.

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