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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 10:34:28 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		It might have escaped you that most dogs also have a fur, you might want to try one of the collars on bare skin and then put something in between...


The problem is also humans sweat - sweat is salty, which means it's an excellent conductor, dogs can't sweat...

I'm currently chatting with a friend who's a vet to get his take on it, so bear with me, he's in the US and said during his training period in various teaching hospitals or clinics, he encountered a lot of unexplained heart failures in dogs, some of the owners suspected neighbours to have poisoned the dog, as the dog just dropped dead while being seemingly healthy and showed no signs of ill health, in a lot of cases, the dog owners said that they had previously used shock collars. They seem to have a tendency to interfere with the heart rhythm and cause heart problems, some breeds are particularly prone to them, for him (as a vet) it's a good enough reason to not use them.

I'm joking with him about putting one on my other half if he doesn't clean up after himself (he's a vanilla acquaintance so I can't just say "Listen buddy...") and he said the thickness and muscles on the neck make a difference (I don't quite understand how but again, vanilla so I can't really come out) also how well hydrated somebody is, plus a lot of other factors. Bear in mind we're currently talking jokingly about it and if you got a good way of breaching the subject without coming out, let me know.

I don't know if you are aware of the AB Gymnics? Very very mild devices that work a bit like a TENS unit but help you to tone your muscles up, had one a few years ago and got quite horrible burns from using it longer than the recommended 10 minutes, and as far as I remember the package also said it's NOT to be used above the waist under no circumstances, now those things have just 2 electrodes that are close together, they don't hurt at all and a lot milder than a shock collar - why would they put that on and a long list (I didn't even bother to read it but hey, it went on me and nobody else so it was purely my risk) when to not use it...

Don't get me wrong, I love playing with electricity, but the biggest problem I have is that a lot of people who have arrhythmic heart problems aren't even aware they have them, as they are often mild and cause no discomfort, but sending a shock through, might just be the coffin nail, quite literally.

I stick to playing with electricity under the waist or on one side of the body if I go over the waist, just simple self-protection, I'll happily cut, pierce, whip and nail body parts (including scrotums or rather especially) to boards, but this is where I draw the line for myself and what I would recommend doing.

If both partners are aware of the risks, fine, no issue with it at all. I'm sure that in 99% of all cases it is not an issue, but hey, even with Russian Roulette the chances are pretty good to survive, just not good enough for me to take them.

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 10:52:49 AM   
Epytropos


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Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		Fair enough. If the vet guy is seeing a connection that's probably signficiant. You do make a decent point about the sweat/salt issue, to be certain, though as to the fur if the thing is on properly it is in full contact with the skin whether dog or human.

I'm not at all familiar with the exercise equipment you mentioned, but I'm confused that it says not above the waste. It contains the word ab, presumably short for abdominal - that would imply you would pretty much ONLY use it above the waste, wouldn't it? As for not using it for more than 10 mins, that would be a very different situation than a shocker collar - you would be using it in <3 second jolts if done properly. It takes a lot of those to add up to the level of getting burns, and a circumspect dominant would immediately notice any discoloration. Even assuming it *did* cause burns there are definitely those who cause second-degree burns intentionally as part of play. Personally I can't stand burn play, but it is a thing that happens.

Still, all this being said, your friend apparently saw a correlation between the use of them and heart issues, which is notable. There's always a risk with electric play, without a doubt. If I were going to actually employ one I would probably stick a voltage meter to it ahead of time and get some measurements. All the speculation in the world (and I do love to speculate ) can't replace hard data.

As you say, if everyone's informed and agreed that's RACK. It clearly isn't something that does damage commonly, but also clearly it has the potential to it just like anything you use to shock someone. After taking all the precautions of testing and research you sit down together and decide if you want to roll the dice. Personally "sex-related electrocution" is a cause of death that would make me moderately happy, but hey lol.

Oh, as to broaching it with him, you could always use the "I found some perverts doing X on the internet - doesn't that sound dangerous?" and see what he says. That, or you could use this as your big coming-out moment. Either way I'd be curious to see some medical data on it. I might out myself to my doctor friend and see if he has any input...


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 11:20:05 AM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		I can't broach that with him, known him for years and an ex and I became his surrogate mom and dad, he had health issues, parents were going through a nasty divorce, all that... Said ex (who's a super lovely person, we just weren't meant to be together - the timing was wrong but we're still great friends) helped him through college and made his life a bit easier. I once just hinted at being kinky and he was shocked, so errr, nope... But he's my back up for all animal related questions, always handy to have somebody who loves research and is dying to get his paws on Alfie (only known Dobie in history who had a case of lion jaw).

As for the AB Gymnic, nope, it's designed to be sitting on the waist or just on the upper leg, the elastic straps it comes with would make it slide down if you'd put it higher. I'm not sure if they still make them, bought myself off ebay years ago but if you google for it, you see how they work, in case they are still around. Shame that they really aren't more effective than doing those damned sit ups I hate so much ;)

If the collar is on, I don't think you see the burn, I didn't even notice that I got burned, and I forgot to add that those devices are meant to be used with a special lube, if you try them with water OUCH.

Oh, if you are into electric pain play, I got a fantastic tip for you you will love, use a deep heat lube that is not based on oil (will ruin the electrodes if it is oil based and most of the electric toys are too expensive) but based on water, your settings can be sooooooo much lower and it still will feel so much worse. I discovered that with the AB Gymnic on a water based cream that was supposed to prevent cellulite (like all females it's the horrible threat of developing orange peal that makes me spend tons of money on useless stuff before a dermatologist told me the same stuff they use for the super expensive creams is found much more concentrated and effective in deep heat - hint, put panties on before applying, learned the hard way), it will pack a punch...

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 11:59:04 AM   
Epytropos


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Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		To the burning being hidden; it seems to me that looking at the person from above it would be quite easy to keep an eye on the point of contact. It's not like an electrode where it has something surrounding it, it's just a stud that's normally meant to penetrate fur. I know I've seen them applied to short-haired dogs and if you push it slightly to the side you can see the point of contact, so a person would be even easier than that.

To the deep heat lube suggestion, I'm definitely going to keep that in mind. For the most part electricity interests me as sensation play rather than pain, but I'm never opposed to new and interesting ways of hurting people nonetheless. I'm dreading my mandatory period of self-testing before applying something new, but such is life lol. Now if only I can find someone new and interesting to torture with it...


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 12:08:58 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		To my knowledge the electrodes connect with the skin and even from above you can't see, you see when you move the collar aside, but the burns are superficial and I wouldn't really worry that much about them, the arrhythmic thing is what worries me most.

To be honest, I adore playing with masos, but they all will agree that the scariest thing I have in my "box of tricks" is the epilady, fun fun fun, you can have the biggest pain slut howling and begging for mercy.

Now have I ever told you about the delights of peppermint oil? A few drops in a condom, I heard it STINGS like hell, but the beauty is it also increases the circulation, so it's a vicious circle, pain --> more arousal --> more pain --> more arousal...

Always have some oil based cream around, preferably with aloe vera to take the sting away.

Electrical play, well inflate scrotum with saline lotion and then the deep heat, then needles and then add electricity... Delightful reactions...

I better stop now, or people will accuse me of being a sadist, and that obviously would be wrong and slanderous

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 12:48:43 PM   
Epytropos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I better stop now, or people will accuse me of being a sadist, and that obviously would be wrong and slanderous


Wouldn't want that, now would we?

I have heard the peppermint oil bit (though the rest of that is definitely new...), but I have a very firm no-go policy with CBT, either giving or receiving. That and burning (except for wax play, but that's not really burning burning) both are irretrievable hard limits. I won't do them to people, and I definitely won't let anyone do them to me. It just does not reside in my happy place. That being said, I expect peppermint oil on the *outside* of the condom would have a similar effect..

I'm reminded, I knew a girl who had a metal sound she claimed she used for electrical play. She insisted it was the most fun you could have with a cock period, but then again that bitch was crazy as shit


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 12:49:54 PM   
mummyman321


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
I have never heard of a dog having a heart attack or getting a damaged throat from those collars.  I can't see why it would be different for a human. 

People feel pets can't protect themselves and they set the standards higher than human standards . . . like less insect parts in their food etc.  Pet food is actually cleaner than people food.  i. e. Each of us eats an average of one pound of insects in our food every year.  I would imagine the first time a dog was maimed from one of those collars, they would have been pulled off the market.  



I agree with RS, that a shock collar does not cause heart attacks in humans or dogs. There was also another post about never play with electricity above the waist. I do not agree with that statement. You can play safely above the waist if you know what you are doing. The key it that the electrical current cannot cross the path of the heart. In the instance of a shock collar the 2 electrodes are very close to each other. The current is not going to cross the path of the heart. But I would not advise anyone to play that way if they are not experience in electrical play.


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 12:53:00 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		Ooops, I assumed you were female, LOL...

Well, in that case, yes, the peppermint oil does work outside as well but I do think you might get yours as it seems to seep slightly through condoms, in that case I would stick with water based deep heat products which you could mellow down with other water based lube (so as to not corrode the condom) and have fun, or just apply a little bit to the clit and use some oil based lube with aloe vera before you venture there with mucus membrane...

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 12:58:00 PM   
mummyman321


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From: Dusseldorf
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

To my knowledge the electrodes connect with the skin and even from above you can't see, you see when you move the collar aside, but the burns are superficial and I wouldn't really worry that much about them, the arrhythmic thing is what worries me most.

To be honest, I adore playing with masos, but they all will agree that the scariest thing I have in my "box of tricks" is the epilady, fun fun fun, you can have the biggest pain slut howling and begging for mercy.

Now have I ever told you about the delights of peppermint oil? A few drops in a condom, I heard it STINGS like hell, but the beauty is it also increases the circulation, so it's a vicious circle, pain --> more arousal --> more pain --> more arousal...

Always have some oil based cream around, preferably with aloe vera to take the sting away.

Electrical play, well inflate scrotum with saline lotion and then the deep heat, then needles and then add electricity... Delightful reactions...

I better stop now, or people will accuse me of being a sadist, and that obviously would be wrong and slanderous


LadyC,
You are making my blood pressure rise this afternoon :)

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 1:03:18 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321


LadyC,
You are making my blood pressure rise this afternoon :)


Do I dare to ask where?


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 1:04:41 PM   
Epytropos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Ooops, I assumed you were female, LOL...


>.< You're killing me with this. I picked this name out just this morning specifically to counteract the presumptions of femininity which followed my Palliata name around heh. I suspected you were making that mistake but I was giving things the benefit of the doubt and hoping you viewed my profile and figured a bi dom might need those sorts of suggestions lol. Oh well, I'll just have to resign myself to a life of gender confusion


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 1:06:56 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Status: offline 		Nope, my bad, didn't check the profile... Was actually doing some mundane house cleaning, playing with lapdogs, washing and all that while the laptop was on the table

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 1:07:55 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
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From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline 		LOL, well lets just say in more that one place :)

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 1:09:06 PM   
Epytropos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Nope, my bad, didn't check the profile... Was actually doing some mundane house cleaning, playing with lapdogs, washing and all that while the laptop was on the table


What kind of domme cleans? If you don't have a slave around to do it, you leave it dirty until you do. Unbecoming!


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 2:10:16 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Nope, my bad, didn't check the profile... Was actually doing some mundane house cleaning, playing with lapdogs, washing and all that while the laptop was on the table


What kind of domme cleans? If you don't have a slave around to do it, you leave it dirty until you do. Unbecoming!



Yeah, would be much better to watch a bunch of guys parading around nude or in maid's outfits pretending to clean while breaking most stuff and then having to clean after them, rather do it myself so at least I know i did a good or not so good job, and more importantly, I know where my stuff is.

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 2:24:28 PM   
Epytropos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

Yeah, would be much better to watch a bunch of guys parading around nude or in maid's outfits pretending to clean while breaking most stuff and then having to clean after them, rather do it myself so at least I know i did a good or not so good job, and more importantly, I know where my stuff is.


I feel bad for dominants who are limited to men. Women are taught from a very young age how to clean, while I spent months working a job that required it and never got as far as being able to tell clean from dirty. O'course, that said, I have very low standards for how clean I expect things. If anything it's been a process of restraining them from making things too sterile for comfort.


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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/23/2011 2:52:36 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
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Status: offline 		I'm not a great cleaner and i prefer a "creative chaos" but I'm a bit anal about clean bathrooms and kitchens, plus letting somebody into my house and letting that person clean (unless it's a professional cleaner) it's a major trust factor and there really is no such thing as a free lunch...

Dust doesn't bug me much but a dirty bath tub grosses me out, plus with 2 Dobies, 2 cats and a pet rat, hoovering every day is just something that has to happen. I try to keep on top of things to avoid it getting completely out of hand and then not knowing where to start or where stuff is

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/24/2011 6:07:16 AM   
OLRICHSLAVE


Posts: 8
Joined: 5/16/2011
Status: offline 		May i put my 2 cents in here? i myself had a Dome strap a shock collar around my privite,s one time, i was strapped to a X cross with a heavy hood with blindfold and gag ( i don,t write for magazines or anything else ) i felt something going on jus thinking of wtghs or somewhat and then i had my breath took away, of course i went into a panic, She did about 5 or 6 hits on the thing before she did stop, i was done, get me the hell off off of here i was going home, To find out it was on the highest setting from a outdoor scene she had done the weekend before, Yes i know she was a Sadist, i like, That was the 1st time i had ever had anything like that happen to me, i have worn a Tens unit for yrs on my lower back and have never had a feeling like that , i do tend to sweat anyway and as Lady Constanze said that just makes a better conection, i had burns on my bag for a mth, That was the 1st and last time i ever seen her, But do you know what? i had a bad time of it all around but i wouldn,t mind it again, at a lower setting that is and at least know it could happen, Also i have had alot of dogs thr the yrs including hunting dogs and i won,t use them on them, i think it will do more harm than good, i have used them a few times but i think it does more harm than good, Lady Constanze have a good day and i still can,t get the RAT lol

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/24/2011 1:22:56 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I think the general consensus was that genitals are fine, above the waist not a good idea...

Well that certainly is the urban myth.

You go and believe it's an urban myth and doctors know jack shit

By all means invent a position and shove it down my throat.

My actual points are:

1. That while one does not want to pass electricity through the brain or heart the use of electricity above the waist is constantly prescribed by doctors and that the direction I and later my girl were given by two separate doctors don't actually match what you're saying. Furthermore that giving people who are trying to understand estim the actual information instead inaccurate rules of thumb is vastly more useful.

2. The re-purposing of devices that were never designed for human beings does not necessarily mean that the "genitals are fine". I certainly wouldn't consider burns or nerve damage to the genitals from a bad one of those devices fine.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 7/24/2011 1:37:16 PM >

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RE: Bark Control Collars. - 7/27/2011 5:04:12 PM   
MistressRouge


Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline 		I have used one, and it is very effective indeed, also great around the balls with a good range too.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gypsy44

Has anyone ever used a bark control collar on a sub? The type that gives a small shock when the dogs barks. I have one that is for small dogs and not very strong. But do not want to cause any damage to subs throat. I was thinking of using it when he is spanked as he likes to yell a bit. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you ,
Gypsy




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