quote:

Faith is not real.

It is belief.

I can believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny but that does not make them real.

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Faith is not real.

It is belief.

I can believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny but that does not make them real.

I don't necessarily feel the need to have tangible proof to believe. We can't see air either but it's there. Yeah, yeah I know we see things move because of wind but we don't see the air itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i'm not a particularly religious person, but i don't really understand why people who don't believe in god go out of their way to insult those who do. they always claim to be railing against some "larger mass" of people who perpetrate XYZ on behalf of religion, yet all of their ranting is aimed towards people who AREN'T doing that.

whutev.

believe what you want; you have no reason to justify it to anyone else. even if they bait you by attacking your ability to reason. if hyperbole and personal attack is their only means for "winning," then let them have it.

here's the thing though, i'm not attacking anyone, and most certainly not intending to insult, much as those who claim that god exists when we say he doesn't are not. i'm defending against those who state that there IS A GOD. no, they believe there is a god and that is different. there are no hard facts to say there is a god of any sort, but there is always the claim of 'overt facts' to prove from one fraction or another. however, when asked to present those facts they just don't stand up. again it is a want to believe in something and so significence is put to something that isn't proof at all. it's not solid hard fact.

i don't believe in any god at all simply because the facts of science prove that most of it is rubbish. however, i don't go out of my way to tell others they are wrong, but they do. for those who believe it is always seen that anyone who says anything against it is attacking, when actually we are usually asking for proof when they claim they have it.

the point is is that there is a huge difference between faith and fact. so claim your belief all you like, and rock on for you (generic) but don't claim you have proof unless you can back it up. because if that is what is claimed, proof, then the none believer will ask to see it. if you can't/won't show it then it will be labled as bs so don't get all snarky about it when it is.

so you see Lilly, what you say works both ways.

needles

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Faith is not real.

It is belief.

I can believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny but that does not make them real.

I don't necessarily feel the need to have tangible proof to believe. We can't see air either but it's there. Yeah, yeah I know we see things move because of wind but we don't see the air itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

Faith is not real.

It is belief.

I can believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny but that does not make them real.

I don't necessarily feel the need to have tangible proof to believe. We can't see air either but it's there. Yeah, yeah I know we see things move because of wind but we don't see the air itself.

Yes, you do have tangible proof of the air in numerous scientific studies.

I'm still waiting on some proof of God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Not bullshit at all. I have had things happen in my life that give me faith that there is something greater than us all out there.

personal experiences that give you faith are not fucking proof, and they sure as fuck aren't overt. if you really do have overt proof, as you claimed, let's see it. put up or shut up.

what is it with these fucking theists? always claiming to have proof but never able to actually provide any. do you guys really expect those of us with the ability to reason to just take your word for it?

Prove to me there is nothing greater than us all. Your mind is made up, so there is no reason for me to waste the keystrokes telling you the things I have seen that prove to ME that my faith is not misplaced.

My ability to reason is perfectly fine, but thanks for caring. I don't expect you to take my word for anything. Please extend me the same courtesy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

i'm not being apologetic at all. i don't believe because there is a whole wealth of scientific knowledge that disproves what most religions claim. just as science has proved that air does infact exist, even if we can't always see it. i don't feel the need to attack people who claim they do believe, if it works for them then cool. what i can't stand is the bs that goes with alot of it. the definative proof that can never be backed up, the attrocities done in the name of whatever god and so on.

so science, as some say, has not proved that there is no god either. but then we are talking about an entity and nothing else. that is cool too, but i want to know what the point of the entity is, because everything else surrounding it has been disproved. so there's this thing just floating about somewhere that didn't do all the things claimed of it and it's doing what? it just doesn't stand up.

so, let them carry on, but claim something to be fact and you at least should be able to back it up. coz let's face it, in any other walk of life if you claimed something to be fact and couldn't/wouldn't back it up you'd be called a liar. why should a claim about god be any different?

as Hannah said, put up or shut up if you are claiming something as fact.

needles

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

that's the thing about faith in God/Jesus without the extraneous stuff, I don't need physical proof to believe. You don't have that faith, FINE! I respect that, it's your right, now how about you respect my right to believe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

i'm not being apologetic at all. i don't believe because there is a whole wealth of scientific knowledge that disproves what most religions claim. just as science has proved that air does infact exist, even if we can't always see it. i don't feel the need to attack people who claim they do believe, if it works for them then cool. what i can't stand is the bs that goes with alot of it. the definative proof that can never be backed up, the attrocities done in the name of whatever god and so on.

so science, as some say, has not proved that there is no god either. but then we are talking about an entity and nothing else. that is cool too, but i want to know what the point of the entity is, because everything else surrounding it has been disproved. so there's this thing just floating about somewhere that didn't do all the things claimed of it and it's doing what? it just doesn't stand up.

so, let them carry on, but claim something to be fact and you at least should be able to back it up. coz let's face it, in any other walk of life if you claimed something to be fact and couldn't/wouldn't back it up you'd be called a liar. why should a claim about god be any different?

as Hannah said, put up or shut up if you are claiming something as fact.

needles

Did you miss the part where I said I was agreeing with you?

What I objected to was your apologetic tone.

To say that you respect their beliefs when you don't believe is not being honest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I'd put it different, you believe in a god, I don't believe in a god - we both don't have proof, you have no proof that he exists, I have no proof that he doesn't exist, so we both believe... Nothing wrong with that.

quote:

It is up to you to prove it.

quote:

I'd put it different, you believe in a god, I don't believe in a god - we both don't have proof, you have no proof that he exists, I have no proof that he doesn't exist, so we both believe... Nothing wrong with that.

quote:

Why? My faith is what it is, I have nothing to prove to anyone. Just because you demand proof doesn't mean I/we have to give it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Why? My faith is what it is, I have nothing to prove to anyone. Just because you demand proof doesn't mean I/we have to give it.

you didn't make the asinine claim that you had OVERT PROOF. look the word up for fuck's sake!

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Not bullshit at all. I have had things happen in my life that give me faith that there is something greater than us all out there.

personal experiences that give you faith are not fucking proof, and they sure as fuck aren't overt. if you really do have overt proof, as you claimed, let's see it. put up or shut up.

what is it with these fucking theists? always claiming to have proof but never able to actually provide any. do you guys really expect those of us with the ability to reason to just take your word for it?

Prove to me there is nothing greater than us all. Your mind is made up, so there is no reason for me to waste the keystrokes telling you the things I have seen that prove to ME that my faith is not misplaced.

My ability to reason is perfectly fine, but thanks for caring. I don't expect you to take my word for anything. Please extend me the same courtesy.

No, your mind is made up.

You made the claim, it is not up to anyone to disprove it.  It is up to you to prove it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Why? My faith is what it is, I have nothing to prove to anyone. Just because you demand proof doesn't mean I/we have to give it.

you didn't make the asinine claim that you had OVERT PROOF. look the word up for fuck's sake!

quote:

All I am asking is that we all, my self included, live and let live.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

All I am asking is that we all, my self included, live and let live.

no problem, just don't make stupid fucking claims that you can prove the existence of god then get all whiny butt hurt when somebody calls you on your shit.

if you don't want to be made fun of, don't post stupid shit. it's really fucking simple.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

All I am asking is that we all, my self included, live and let live.

no problem, just don't make stupid fucking claims that you can prove the existence of god then get all whiny butt hurt when somebody calls you on your shit.

if you don't want to be made fun of, don't post stupid shit. it's really fucking simple.