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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I want to preface this by saying that I am replying in this particular style *not* with the intention to pick your post apart.  You've got some points where I agree, some I don't agree, and some that I'm teetering on the brink.  You did want discussion, right?

It's fine to disagree with me.  I invite discussion! 

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ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25
I had intense sexual fantasies of being dominated.

We'd probably have some debate about fantasies = living.  Not the point of your thread, so I'll move forward.

Your point is well taken, but I did experiment in High School, too.  Most of the domination was online, though. 

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Over the years I've met about a dozen "lifestyle" Dommes from CollarMe for real-time play, but the vast majority of my D/s experiences have been online.

This is probably part of the issue.

Agreed.  I will not deny that my real-time experience is very, very limited, which might distort my perspective.

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A few things struck me.  First, I noticed that the majority of people attending were male Doms and female subs.  In a crowd of 20 or 30 people, I may have been one of only 2 male subs present.

I normally wouldn't split a paragraph, but this is contradictory to My experience.  I don't think I've *ever* been to a munch where only two sub males attended.  I think it would shock Me beyond belief.

Very interesting.  I would like to hear other people's perspective on this. 

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Second, I detected a general perception of "male subs" that was quite different from the perception of "female subs."

This part, I do agree with.  The problem on this one is how male subs are perceived when first entering the lifestyle.  A good percentage of them spawn their interests from their sexual desires alone, relying more on fantasy than reality.  There's no balance in it.  Women tend to look more at the overall picture.

This is fine, but I guess my issue is this: how do you filter?  There's nothing wrong with filtering, but I personally wish it were done in a more balanced way. 

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Let me preface this by saying a few things: everyone was very, very nice to me.  They were friendly, open, genuine, and had a sense of humor (acquired through years of life experience).  In truth, they were good people, and they were quite accepting of me.  So, nothing that I am about to say is a reflection on them.  It is a reflection on the lifestyle generally.  

I didn't snip this out based solely on the fact that I'm glad you said it.  Too often, folks complain about the reception that they receive at a munch.  That they found the atmosphere clique-y or they feel that people should have been falling all over themselves to greet the new person, paying no attention to anybody else.  Kudos on this.

Thank you!

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One female sub said, "it's good to finally meet a male submissive with a personality."  I inquired further.  "Lots of male subs are...just kind of creepy: they don't say anything, they leer at women, and they just want to get sexual."  Would she have said the same thing about shy female subs? 

This kind of makes Me wonder just how many male subs in established dynamics this particular woman has met.  It sounds as though her experiences with male subs are based more on the stereotype, driven by first encounters with fantasists, had a great influence in forming her opinions.

Agreed.

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Here's what I think:  the majority of women in the "lifestyle" (Dominant women, submissive women, switch women) seem to regard males as unnecessary/useless/superfluous until proven otherwise.  That is to say, they believe it is the duty of the male to capture the woman's attention (whether it be for D/s play or for friendship).  This relates equally to male subs and male Doms.  The truth is, in the enlightened age of feminism, women and men are not treated equally in the D/s lifestyle.

So much to cover here!  Gender aside, I don't happen to think anyone "needs" some great fulfillment that *must* be provided by an outside, unknown party.  I believe that healthy people are perfectly capable of finding self-fulfillment, happiness, and joy without dependency on another human being to create those things for them.  There is a difference between *wanting* to share your life with another person, instead of *needing* them to fill a void.

I do agree that males do find themselves needing to capture the attention of the female.  This is true in nature and is only emphasized with the imbalance of the D/s world.  A strong, confident woman is not lacking for attention.  If a male does not step up to become noticed, I can promise that someone else will be.

No.  Males and females are *not* treated equally within the D/s lifestyle.  It absolutely is a woman's market, side of the kneel not withstanding.  This is the very reason that female submissives have a greater opportunity of selection, have more options in selecting partners, etc than males do.  There have *always* been more males interested in kink than  females.  This swings the balance of power.  Even if the ratio is as low as 2:1, the woman is still doing the choosing between her two options.

Again, I agree, but I think that women should be at least *mindful* of the balance of power. That's all I ask.  

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ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh


You know, it's funny...one of the first things I ask a man who contacts me here to do is to tell me who he is beyond the label and the kink. Rarely do I get a response that doesn't include his list of kink/sexual wants first and foremost.

It would seem, according to the OP, that in order to be taken serious, I should be charging a fee. Sad really.

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ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25


I hope that in twenty or thirty years, there will be as many male subs as female subs attending these lifestyle events.  Maybe one day a male submissive can have the same expectations as a female submissive on CollarMe and other sites. Until then, when I think of "lifestyle Dominants" and "real-time D/s," I think of people like you."

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I want to know what munches LP goes to.

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ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

3. That because there are so many fish in the sea, he should be grateful for any attention he gets. 

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This part, I do agree with.  The problem on this one is how male subs are perceived when first entering the lifestyle.  A good percentage of them spawn their interests from their sexual desires alone, relying more on fantasy than reality.  There's no balance in it.  Women tend to look more at the overall picture.

This is fine, but I guess my issue is this: how do you filter?  There's nothing wrong with filtering, but I personally wish it were done in a more balanced way. 

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ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

SexyRed, that's an EXCELLENT question! 

Let me turn the question around.  What are the expectations of a female submissive? 

In my opinion,

1.  That she be respected.

2.  That the Dom listens to her and understands her as a human being. 

3.  That there is a special chemistry between the Dom and the sub. 

4.  That her limits are respected. 

5. That she feels special.  (among other things)

What do many lifestyle Fem Dommes think that the male sub's "expectations" should be?

Once again, this is my opinion:

1. That he needs to work very, very, very hard to prove that he is worthy of being her submissive.

2. That if he makes any mistakes, he stands the risk of being immediately dismissed.  

3. That because there are so many fish in the sea, he should be grateful for any attention he gets. 

Do you see a difference?

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1


What are those same expectations?

I get really tired of men thinking that women other any proclivity have it so much easier than they do.

I guess it depends on what you are seeking. If you just want casual, then sure, I imagine women do have it somewhat easier.

But when it comes to finding a serious relationship, I don't find any sex has it easier.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1


But when it comes to finding a serious relationship, I don't find any sex has it easier.

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1


What are those same expectations?

I get really tired of men thinking that women other any proclivity have it so much easier than they do.

I guess it depends on what you are seeking. If you just want casual, then sure, I imagine women do have it somewhat easier.

But when it comes to finding a serious relationship, I don't find any sex has it easier.

Gawd, yes, reminds me of a conversation, a friend of mine is over overly blessed in the boobage department, to the point of having really bad back problems and not easily finding bras (I think she requires an H to J bra, depending on the make but is quite slim with only a 36 underbust), she was telling me that she is seriously thinking about surgery as it's such a strain on her back and a lot of guys just stare at her chest, a guy overheard us and said 'But you must love all the attention you're getting from men' - we just looked at him and he realized that he just *might* have said the wrong thing...

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ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

SexyRed, that's an EXCELLENT question! 

Let me turn the question around.  What are the expectations of a female submissive? 

In my opinion,

1.  That she be respected.

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2.  That the Dom listens to her and understands her as a human being. 

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3.  That there is a special chemistry between the Dom and the sub. 

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4.  That her limits are respected. 

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5. That she feels special.  (among other things)

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1. That he needs to work very, very, very hard to prove that he is worthy of being her submissive.

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2. That if he makes any mistakes, he stands the risk of being immediately dismissed.  

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3. That because there are so many fish in the sea, he should be grateful for any attention he gets. 

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Do you see a difference?

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ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

. . . a guy overheard us and said 'But you must love all the attention you're getting from men' - we just looked at him and he realized that he just *might* have said the wrong thing...

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Women with long legs seem to be wholly proud of the attractiveness of these appendages to men; women with big boobs, though, don't. That can seem quite an odd contradiction to a lot of males.