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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 12:41:35 PM   
OttersSwim


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There's always Peon's bug...

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 12:45:12 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

There's always Peon's bug...


See what's you've done there P?  We -used- to talk about your abs...now...just the bug

Sad really...


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 12:47:09 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Oh dear, it's a hijack, isn't it.

Well, if there were more of those mysterious findoms on the forums we would not have these issues!!!

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 12:48:57 PM   
KneelingSub25


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lol...agreed, it is self-explanatory (but still needs to be pointed out). 


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 12:55:09 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

This topic is just the tits!  People should totally pay for it!  



www.wolford.com - donations are accepted

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 1:02:25 PM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Oh dear, it's a hijack, isn't it.

Well, if there were more of those mysterious findoms on the forums we would not have these issues!!!


Hey, I'm trying to do my part by sending all the guys to Wolford to get me a few new bodystockings, you know a few years ago I missed getting the SuperNova body from them and I am still so pissed off, can't get it anywhere... I'm so totally willing to become a WolDom for it, it's missing in my collection!

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 1:03:02 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

This topic is just the tits!  People should totally pay for it!  



www.wolford.com - donations are accepted


YUM!

Though...I do want to put a guitar in her hand and stick her behind Robert Plant... 


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 1:05:16 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Bought the belt, it was calling out to me, a belt that looks like a corset...

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 2:47:42 PM   
kalikshama


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There's a reason why Lifestyle Dommes find this funny: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8325689/the-meeting

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 4:36:02 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

sometimes when a person experiences a lot of objectification over a body part, they overreact out of self-defense. ANYONE who says anything about that body part gets lumped in with the people who objectified her. it's kind of standard, though it is, i guess, contradictory.
like i've relaxed some on my "anyone who mentions i'm brown = BAD!" rule; the rule got built up out of overreaction to raceplayers and race fetishists. but i realized that not everyone who just mentioned my skin color was one of those people. =p

sometimes people do go too far with their personal hang-ups, and it's up to them to figure that out. it's possible to miss out on interesting things when you're controlled by fear or anxiety, whatever.




That's exactly the right comparison, Lilly.

Reminds me of the first black woman I ever dated. In bed, I said to her, 'God, I love your skin, I want to eat it'. She got offended. I went to the toilet, confused, upset; came back - and she said, 'Thank you', with a really big smile.

OK, I was a callow youth. I'd probably know where the main minefields are, nowadays. Hell, I'll never forget that feeling, though. Her skin reminded me of Bounty bars (do you get them that side of the pond?) - chocolate, with coconut filling. Always my favourite. I guess it helped that she always used a lot of cocoa-butter skin cream.

The woman I mentioned, with the really big boobs - she did get over her hang-up about men finding them attractive. She met, dated, and finally married one of the most gentlemanly, un-brutish, men I've ever met.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 7/13/2011 4:38:29 PM >


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 4:43:54 PM   
VideoAdminTheta


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Oh dear, it's a hijack, isn't it.




It sure is! For shame! All of you! Now get back to the topic!

Please?

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 7:55:31 PM   
KneelingSub25


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Just happy to see so much love directed at yours truly from some really awesome, happy people.  lol 

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:15:31 PM   
HumanATM1598


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I wish more straight male doms knew about this.

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:17:14 PM   
AAkasha


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A lot of people have covered this in detail, but a few additional thoughts from a femdom who spent plenty of time filtering, evaluating, dating submissive (and vanilla) men.

It seems like you believe that as long as you are not "that" guy - the creepy staring guy, or the inappropriate guy, or the "brings up sexual fetishes in the first five minutes" guy, you are still treated like a second class citizen by lifestyle femdoms and have to prove yourself and are still treated with perhaps some prejudice before the word go. If I am reading correctly. And that this isn't really fair.

I know that as a single "lifestyle" femdom, I was generally more comfortable in the role of pursuit, rather than being pursued. Some men did approach me in an appropriate way (in person, online, at parties) and that's ok - but my lack of interest, or my cold shoulder, or my polite "thanks but no thanks" boils down to more how "being a dominant woman" wires into my comfortable role in a budding relationship: I pick the guy. I pursue. I peel him like an onion. I love the chase. I am a predator. I find that exciting.

So when a man approaches me and makes the first move, those instincts don't just "switch on" and I go into pursuit mode - the mode that you may have seen in the Financial Doms (as soon as you are paying them or indicate you will) - of course, it's their JOB to show that interest and to pursue so they can begin a successful transaction.

But for a lifestyle femdom, there has to be chemistry. I don't "pursue now, figure out of there's chemistry later." Chemistry is or isn't. If I am pursuing a man, it's because something he did, said, the way he smells, the way he walks, his eye contact, something he said in a letter to me - it sparked an interest in me that led me to want more. Simply being available isn't enough for me to exude the effort to "find out" if there's chemistry.

Some sub men think that if they indicate they are available, and they are at least presentable and polite, that it's not fair that a woman doesn't at least pursue or switch into the mode where she evaluates. He wants to be evaluated. The femdom is envisioned as the active one in courtship (and yes, in my case, it is true). But for most women, the ones that are pursuers by nature, they have to first have a spark of interest, and that interest is not just based on some simple criteria - nice, well dressed, seems educated, BAM. It's chemistry - attraction, lust, whatever. And if a man presents himself to her and the spark is not there, just because she is a dominant woman doesn't mean she will take action to begin the process of digging around for that spark and seeing if it's there. The ball is still in his court. He has to make the impression.

Ok, some subs find this "he has to make the impression" to be akin to "femdoms make subs jump through so many hoops, it's unfair." I get a lot of emails and approaches, even as a married femdom who just plays on the side, from subs that kind of go like this:

Sub: Hi. I'm interested, you seem like a good fit for me. (lots of additional, non offensive information).
Femdom: Hi, nice to meet you, thank you. (femdom is neither interested or not at this point - she has no idea. She doesn't NOT like him, he seems fine, but really, she's not having heart pounding butterflies either, it just is what it is - which is, at this point, nothing._
Sub: Ok...so, what do you want to know about me?

*crickets*

Basically, what happens is that when the sub presents that he's available and interested, and he hasn't totally offended or disgusted the femdom, but she hasn't had even close to enough info to decide if he's her type -- the sub thinks at THIS point, the femdom has the ball in her court. And since, after all, she is the "femdom," she will jump into action to go through the process to evaluate him, to drive the courtship, or, at the very least, to take initiative. In reality, it just does NOT work that way. Most femdoms don't "take over" or "being to peel the onion" until they have some interest - spark - chemistry. This is true with ALL kinds of intimate relationships however.

I think the problem is in the perception that just because dominant women often do - by their nature - take the initiative in courtship - that a man's role is minimized in courtship and the flirting/mating dance, and that once he signals both interest and availability, she will start the process of finding out what he is all about.

I'm very sensually, socially and sexually aggressive. When I like a man, I feel most comfortable in the role of pursuit. But I generally pick my "prey" based on my own criteria, and mere availability isn't enough to get my motor running. That requires that a sub man make more than just a good first impression, but instead, work on developing some rapport, share some hobbies with me. Or in a social setting, have a certain style that catches my eye and makes it impossible for me to leave the room without introducing myself. I have to want to get to know him. Sub or vanilla, doesn't matter. Attraction wins every time.

Akasha

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:37:49 PM   
KneelingSub25


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Akasha, I definitely respect your input and agree with you.  The onus shouldn't be on the Domme to give every submissive man a chance. 

What I'm saying is this: hey, I'm not even asking for a chance.  I'm not asking that the Lifestyle Domme "evaluate" me or take me seriously or go through the process of getting to know me before rejecting me.  I'm just asking for a modicum of civility.  For example, suppose that a sub approaches a Domme respectfully.  All the Domme has to say is this: "Hey, thank you very much, but I am not interested."  She doesn't have to explain why.  She doesn't have to apologize, even.  It is her choice.  I don't think it's too much to ask for a courtesy response (when the sub has taken the time to formulate his thoughts coherently and has shown that he has read her profile carefully, etc.).  Instead, often it's the opposite: the so-called Domme counters with strange insults, wild accusations, insinuations, demands, etc.  Or, no response at all.  The rude, inconsiderate response is worse than not responding at all. 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that a Domme has to respond to every message she receives.  However, if someone takes the time to write a well-organized, thoughtful message to her that references her profile and shows a genuine interest, I think as a courtesy the sub should be informed of where he stands. 




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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:45:58 PM   
Hisprettybaby


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25
What are the expectations of a female submissive?

In my opinion,

1. That she be respected.

2. That the Dom listens to her and understands her as a human being.

3. That there is a special chemistry between the Dom and the sub.

4. That her limits are respected.

5. That she feels special. (among other things)

What do many lifestyle Fem Dommes think that the male sub's "expectations" should be?

Once again, this is my opinion:

1. That he needs to work very, very, very hard to prove that he is worthy of being her submissive.

2. That if he makes any mistakes, he stands the risk of being immediately dismissed.

3. That because there are so many fish in the sea, he should be grateful for any attention he gets.

Interesting. I don't think one should make broad and sweeping generalizations. I switch and, as a Domme, I would want the same things for my sub, either male or female, as I want for myself as a sub. I would not treat a male any differently than I expect to be treated.

~Hisprettybaby~

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:49:22 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

Akasha, I definitely respect your input and agree with you.  The onus shouldn't be on the Domme to give every submissive man a chance. 

What I'm saying is this: hey, I'm not even asking for a chance.  I'm not asking that the Lifestyle Domme "evaluate" me or take me seriously or go through the process of getting to know me before rejecting me.  I'm just asking for a modicum of civility.  For example, suppose that a sub approaches a Domme respectfully.  All the Domme has to say is this: "Hey, thank you very much, but I am not interested."  She doesn't have to explain why.  She doesn't have to apologize, even.  It is her choice.  I don't think it's too much to ask for a courtesy response (when the sub has taken the time to formulate his thoughts coherently and has shown that he has read her profile carefully, etc.).  Instead, often it's the opposite: the so-called Domme counters with strange insults, wild accusations, insinuations, demands, etc.  Or, no response at all.  The rude, inconsiderate response is worse than not responding at all. 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that a Domme has to respond to every message she receives.  However, if someone takes the time to write a well-organized, thoughtful message to her that references her profile and shows a genuine interest, I think as a courtesy the sub should be informed of where he stands. 





There are lots of threads about why a woman might not respond at all, even with a "thanks but no thanks" note. I can't speak to the how and why a woman would respond with insults, but this is obviously an online thing - in real life, that's probably not going to happen, a man is just going to be ignored.

A lot of the time, femdoms don't respond to online approaches with a polite "no thank you" because more often than not, it creates a bigger problem for her than just not responding at all. While some men just say thanks and move on, others take it as an opportunity to start a conversation. "Well can I respectfully ask you why not" or "can you give me advice then how I can improve my profile?" or "do you have any single femdom friends?" or "You are probably a money grubbing bitch anyway!" or other random insults.

If a femdom online made sure that - as a courtesy - she responded to all emails - she'd be spending most of her time on here responding politely rather than pursuing the men she wanted to. Sometimes people don't have that much time on this site, they just come on for a few moments. A lot of femdoms have gone through time periods where they were very diligent about responding politely but ultimately got enough hate mail, or demands for follow up, or the dreaded "why haven't you responded to my email, you read it yesterday" type stuff.

Clearly, if you knocked her socks off, you'd know it, right? She'd get back to you. She doesn't know if you are going to be that agitator dead set on totally ruining her day, or the clinging puppy who won't take no for an answer. This is a phenomenon unique to *online dating*, not femdoms, and not this site. Women get a lot of emails and the ones that can sit and respond politely to every single one with a kind, gentle, polite and thorough response and *never* just stop replying would be in an endless loop of responding to emails with men she had no intention of meeting. Yes, women get THAT much email.

The issue of you feeling like if you write a great email, take the time to reference her profile, do all the right things and don't get a response at all is absolutely a symptom of ONLINE dating, not "femdoms." And keep in mind, that awesome femdom you wrote to, only to receive a response that was rude or obnoxious or insulting for no reason - who is to say that's even a femdom, even a woman, or anything? It's not a living breathing person you can see, it's a profile. It could be a couple of drunk frat guys playing jokes to see who can get the best emails from guys so they can send back mean emails. You can't label "online femdoms" as bad apples when you have no idea of knowing how many are legitimate femdoms to start with.


Akasha

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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 9:53:25 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25
For example, suppose that a sub approaches a Domme respectfully.  All the Domme has to say is this: "Hey, thank you very much, but I am not interested."  She doesn't have to explain why.  She doesn't have to apologize, even.  It is her choice. 


i'm obviously not a domme, but even as a fem sub i've gotten plenty of messages from male subs that were well-thought out, and generally polite. when i said "hi, thanks for the nice message, but i'm a submissive, not a Dominant. good luck in your search," do you have any idea of the kind of stuff you get back? the screeching, bitter, angry replies full of insults from all over the map? =p

like i said, sometimes the overreaction you get in response (or the LACK of reaction, which is, in and of itself, a response of some kind really) is built up out of constantly dealing with very VERY negative reactions.

i've been called all sorts of names by male subs who never should've really even written to me in the first place, because i told them "thanks but no thanks." =p and i'm NOT a domme -- i can only imagine what those who actually have "Female Dominant" on their profiles have to put up with.

and no, this is not meant to be about the great trials and tribulations that female dominants have to deal with. this is just a statement of reality. you're talking about contacting people online and this is the reality that you run into online. you seem like a very thoughtful person who has spent a lot of time fleshing out his opinions, you probably have a lot to offer in conversations, but unfortunately, online, people like you are the minority. and unfortunately, you'll have to deal with the fallout that the "bad ones" generate.

a lot of women don't reply simply because they don't want to deal with the possibility of what might come back to them. =p


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:34:02 PM   
KneelingSub25


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Lilly, I am so happy that you responded from a submissive woman's point of view because...part of what motivated me to write this post in the first place was an exchange that I had about a week ago with...a female sub online! 

To clarify, the Lifestyle Domme that I sent the e-mail to is not the same as the female sub that I am referring to now.  However, my experience with the female sub greatly influenced my decision to send the e-mail to the Lifestyle Domme (which is another, unrelated story!).  

First, just a few things about the female sub.  I was NOT looking to dominate her OR to have her dominate me.  I chanced upon her profile (on another site), and it intrigued me.  I liked her writing style and her sense of humor, so I sent her a very playful, silly message.  There was nothing sexual about it.  I was interested in getting to know her as a person (and I identified myself as a submissive male).  I hardly even expected a response and wouldn't have cared either way. 

Then, she responded quite positively, acknowledging the playful character of what I had written while quietly alluding to the fact that I made scant mention of her profile in my initial message to her (I spent very little time composing the initial message).  She also asked for clarification on a few points that I had raised. 

So, for the second message, I took the time to peruse her profile and blog more carefully, and I wrote a very thoughtful reply message, while poking fun at myself and at the D/s scene in general.  I also focused on specific aspects of her profile that intrigued me and/or warranted further examination.  It was a well-written (and long) reply message.  After I had sent it, I waited a few days, and she never replied.  I reread my second message and realized that she may have taken offense to some of the points that I had raised about her blog (I teased her a bit).   So,  I decided to send her a very brief third message apologizing if I had offended her in any way.  She never replied, and I let it go. 

Then, I attended a real-time event where a submissive female informed me of how many women regard male subs as "creepy, leering" weirdos.  Then, I attended an event the next day almost entirely comprised of "Gorean Masters" and their "wenches" in which several of the so-called Masters, in my opinion, were NOT treating the women very respectfully, and there was a lot of inappropriate bullying going on (at least from my perspective).   
Then, I started asking myself, all other things being equal, if I were a female submissive messaging her, would she have responded to my second message?  If I were a male dominant, would she have responded to my second message?  Anyway, maybe this gives you a bit more insight, I'm not sure. 


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RE: In Defense of Financial Domination - 7/13/2011 10:48:08 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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is it possible that your style of conversation/humor just wasn't her cup of tea? is it possible that it had nothing to do with you being a male sub and more to do with that? some people won't respond to very large messages because they find them overwhelming. even in spoken conversation, if you rattle on for 30 minutes straight without giving the other person a chance to offer input, they'll tune out and find something else to do.

ooooor is it possible (again, having nothing to do with you being a male sub) that she just wasn't "conventionally polite" or had tried to be polite in the beginning when she really had no desire to actually talk to you?

there are all sorts of reasons why people do the things they do, and it may not have anything to do with you being a male submissive.


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